Most necessary belief to be Catholic?

[jmcrae]

I humbly apologise for my lack of correct form when posting my poll/question. In my professional life I was a special educator with fast more expertise in behavior mod than in theological issues.

I was just interested in which of the major beliefs concerning the Church are necessary for one to be a Catholic without being labeled as cafeteria or even heretical. There must be other Catholics such as myself who were cradle Catholics and believe in the True Presence but struggle with some social dogmas. In other words, are there those such as myself who believe fully in the miracle of transubstantiation but not the teaching of the Church on social issues? Are those who follow all social dogma but do not believe in the True Presence any more or less Catholic than as I am?

Once again, please accept my sincere apologies for being so inept at my first attempt on submitting a poll. April in Northern California

I think that once you understand that it’s the Church who is the arbiter of truth, rather than your personal opinions, or your father’s politics, or whatever/whoever else is influencing you to not believe in the Church’s social teachings, then it will become easier for you to become converted.

 

[Thomas_White]

I chose belief in the transubstantiation as the most essential of the choices offered. But I’ve always thought that belief in the divinity of Christ and the Resurrection were the truly essential beliefs.

 

[jeannetherese]

None of the above. The poll implies that there is a minimal level of belief or that one can just pick and choose what they can accept or ignore.

Agreed.
I think Tantum Ergo’s response might be especially helpful:
"I’m sorry but I find that poll to be inaccurate and incomplete.

Yes, Catholics believe in the charism of infallibility, papal and otherwise, when duly exercised.

Yes, Catholics believe in assent to dogma and doctrine and disciplines, yes, Catholics adhere to tradition (even the most ‘progressive’ ones, somewhere).

Yes, Catholics believe in transubstantiation which itself is a great MYSTERY.

But the most necessary belief to be Catholic is in a sense ALL of the above and, more than that, belief in the Trinity and God’s grace of salvation which He has given us through the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

You can (sadly) find Catholics who believe in infallibility (often INCORRECTLY to boot) and who thus ‘miss the boat’ on many Catholic teachings and in effect, wind up preaching their own ‘small c’ catholicism and not the Truth.

You can also find those who adhere to tradition (as well as those who jettison every scrap they can find) and completely lose sight of the Being whom they claim to be following.

You can find Catholics who believe in God’s real presence (though many who claim to believe still think it’s symbolic or worse, a ‘charm’) but who reject every other teaching which this effects.

So all of these, while either basic beliefs (plural) or proper helps for the Catholic (again, too many wildly misinterpret many of these), are still not ‘the most necessary belief’.

Actually I would check out the Nicene Creed. While it doesn’t specifically mention papal infallibility, ‘tradition’, ‘transubstantiation’, what it DOES set forth is what all Catholics do believe, and which these other doctrines etc (revealed Truth of the Holy Spirit) help us to keep on proclaiming the Truth (who is Christ) through His Church (the Bride) as set forth by God. "
There have been times in my life when I too struggled with some aspects of Church teachings. Further study has helped me to resolve my struggles and to find beauty in what I once had questioned.
May God bless us all.
Amen.

 

[kozlosap]

Agreed.
I think Tantum Ergo’s response might be especially helpful:
"I’m sorry but I find that poll to be inaccurate and incomplete.

Yes, Catholics believe in the charism of infallibility, papal and otherwise, when duly exercised.

Yes, Catholics believe in assent to dogma and doctrine and disciplines, yes, Catholics adhere to tradition (even the most ‘progressive’ ones, somewhere).

Yes, Catholics believe in transubstantiation which itself is a great MYSTERY.

But the most necessary belief to be Catholic is in a sense ALL of the above and, more than that, belief in the Trinity and God’s grace of salvation which He has given us through the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

You can (sadly) find Catholics who believe in infallibility (often INCORRECTLY to boot) and who thus ‘miss the boat’ on many Catholic teachings and in effect, wind up preaching their own ‘small c’ catholicism and not the Truth.

You can also find those who adhere to tradition (as well as those who jettison every scrap they can find) and completely lose sight of the Being whom they claim to be following.

You can find Catholics who believe in God’s real presence (though many who claim to believe still think it’s symbolic or worse, a ‘charm’) but who reject every other teaching which this effects.

So all of these, while either basic beliefs (plural) or proper helps for the Catholic (again, too many wildly misinterpret many of these), are still not ‘the most necessary belief’.

Actually I would check out the Nicene Creed. While it doesn’t specifically mention papal infallibility, ‘tradition’, ‘transubstantiation’, what it DOES set forth is what all Catholics do believe, and which these other doctrines etc (revealed Truth of the Holy Spirit) help us to keep on proclaiming the Truth (who is Christ) through His Church (the Bride) as set forth by God. "
There have been times in my life when I too struggled with some aspects of Church teachings. Further study has helped me to resolve my struggles and to find beauty in what I once had questioned.
May God bless us all.
Amen.

Thank you so very much for such a thoughtful and loving response! I will continue to pray about “My issues” everyday. Trying to disregard one’s own personal experiences is harder than I had ever realized.

 

[kozlosap]

I think that once you understand that it’s the Church who is the arbiter of truth, rather than your personal opinions, or your father’s politics, or whatever/whoever else is influencing you to not believe in the Church’s social teachings, then it will become easier for you to become converted.

LOL! My Dad passed away in 1985 when I was 30… My main reason for not believing what the Church teaches concerning LGBTQ issues is personal experience, as a high school teacher, friend and Auntie.

 

[zab]

That is like asking: What do you consider to be the most important part of your body in order to be alive?

1. Your head
2. Your brain
3. Your torso
4. Your heart

 

[jmcrae]

LOL! My Dad passed away in 1985 when I was 30… My main reason for not believing what the Church teaches concerning LGBTQ issues is personal experience, as a high school teacher, friend and Auntie.

Ah - sentimentality. If someone I know does it, and they are generally well mannered, then it couldn’t possibly be sinful.

 

[johnnyc176]

‘Unquestionable following of all theological and social dogma’ should be ‘Unquestionable following of all the teachings of Jesus’.

 

[fred_conty]

I believe Our Lord gave the best answer…charity…this is how people will know you are mine.

 

[kozlosap]

Ah - sentimentality. If someone I know does it, and they are generally well mannered, then it couldn’t possibly be sinful.

What is the difference between calling large groups of people that are, by the virtue of their birth, different than the majority, names such as gooks, n*ers, chcs, and all of the other nasty names used over the years for attacking those not like us and saying that they should be judged as a group and not on a personal basis? In addition, your belief in what is sinful is just that, your own belief. The Church stated that we are to love the sinner and hate the sin. Gat people, therefore, are not sinners unless they take part in sex that the CCC claims is wrong. Of course, there are millions of straight couples that participate in sex that is “wrong” too, but then you couldn’t find a group to dismiss as perverts. The number of straight couples participating in sex acts deemed sinful would far out number the # of gay couples having sex in the same manner. There is an old saying that all politics are local which fits my view that it is far more human to base your judgements on personal relationships and not heresay from others.

 

[bobballen_18]

…your belief in what is sinful is just that, your own belief. The Church stated that we are to love the sinner and hate the sin. Gay people, therefore, are not sinners unless they take part in sex that the CCC claims is wrong.

Regarding this first sentence quoted above: If our beliefs on what is sinful coincide with what the Church teaches is sinful, then it is far more than “just our own beliefs” - Then what we believe is also true.

Regarding the second sentence: Correct.

I’m not 100% sure what argument you are trying to make here regarding the Church’s teachings on sexuality (particularly relating to same-sex attraction). Just an honest question here: are you trying to make the argument that because so many people do not treat people who struggle with SSA the way they should, the Church’s teachings on it must be incorrect? I’m sorry if that is not at all what you are arguing - just asking.

 

[kozlosap]

Regarding this first sentence quoted above: If our beliefs on what is sinful coincide with what the Church teaches is sinful, then it is far more than “just our own beliefs” - Then what we believe is also true.

Regarding the second sentence: Correct.

I’m not 100% sure what argument you are trying to make here regarding the Church’s teachings on sexuality (particularly relating to same-sex attraction). Just an honest question here: are you trying to make the argument that because so many people do not treat people who struggle with SSA the way they should, the Church’s teachings on it must be incorrect? I’m sorry if that is not at all what you are arguing - just asking.

I’m sorry, I am passionate about negatively judging an entire group of humans based on fear mongering. Let me explain. In 7th and 8th grade my French teacher was very effeminate. He was a teacher that loved the subject he taught. In 8th grade, kids began a series of incidents meant to embarrass the poor man. Someone hung a jock strap from the flag in the classroom and scrawled “queer” on the blackboard frequently. Yes, this was 1965, so times were different, however; that is no excuse for the actions of a bunch of spoiled upper middle class white kids who thought they were entitled to harass those different from themselves. In May of 8th grade the poor man hung himself in his apartment. I remember my Mom saying that society has helped in his suicide. I realized, at that very second, that I was part of that society that helped drive him to despair. Never again. As soon as my daughter was old enough to understand my story, I told her how I had been part of a group that helped another human being to lose all faith and the will to live. To this day she remembers what I told her. I understand that most posters are not interested in personal anecdotes, but this one incident did truly change my view on judging other human beings.

 

[jmcrae]

The number of straight couples participating in sex acts deemed sinful would far out number the # of gay couples having sex in the same manner.

I expect so, yes. The numbers in either direction don’t justify any of them.

The goal is to get to Heaven; not to fluster the Sunday School teacher.

God will not be mocked.

 

[jmcrae]

I’m sorry, I am passionate about negatively judging an entire group of humans based on fear mongering. Let me explain. In 7th and 8th grade my French teacher was very effeminate. He was a teacher that loved the subject he taught. In 8th grade, kids began a series of incidents meant to embarrass the poor man. Someone hung a jock strap from the flag in the classroom and scrawled “queer” on the blackboard frequently. Yes, this was 1965, so times were different, however; that is no excuse for the actions of a bunch of spoiled upper middle class white kids who thought they were entitled to harass those different from themselves. In May of 8th grade the poor man hung himself in his apartment. I remember my Mom saying that society has helped in his suicide. I realized, at that very second, that I was part of that society that helped drive him to despair. Never again. As soon as my daughter was old enough to understand my story, I told her how I had been part of a group that helped another human being to lose all faith and the will to live. To this day she remembers what I told her. I understand that most posters are not interested in personal anecdotes, but this one incident did truly change my view on judging other human beings.

Listen - the Church is never saying that it’s okay to do that to anyone, ever - not even the worst sinner in the whole world.

I also remember 1965, and believe me, my mother was teaching me even then that that sort of behaviour - making fun of people or mocking them - is always, always wrong.

In saying that homosexuality is evil, the Church is not giving anyone any kind of permission to behave like that, at all, ever.

You can believe that sin is sin, without ever being mean to sinners. You always have to be polite and kind to people, no matter what you think of them, and no matter what they have done, or what you think they might have done. Being polite does *not *mean that you approve of sin, though, or that it isn’t really a sin any more.

 

[bobballen_18]

Listen - the Church is never saying that it’s okay to do that to anyone, ever - not even the worst sinner in the whole world.

I also remember 1965, and believe me, my mother was teaching me even then that that sort of behaviour - making fun of people or mocking them - is always, always wrong.

In saying that homosexuality is evil, the Church is not giving anyone any kind of permission to behave like that, at all, ever.

You can believe that sin is sin, without ever being mean to sinners. You always have to be polite and kind to people, no matter what you think of them, and no matter what they have done, or what you think they might have done. Being polite does *not *mean that you approve of sin, though, or that it isn’t really a sin any more.

Yes, this. (Except I was not alive until 1991.) We have to remember that although the Church’s dogmatic teachings are perfect/true, obviously the Church and the whole human race is flawed, and Satan is more than ready to tempt people away from the Church. We have to try our best to make a distinction between the truth of the Church’s teachings and the way people act, even if they claim to be acting in the name of the Church and/or Her teachings. In the case of your sad story, kozlosap, clearly the teacher was not being treated the way he should have, and very clearly the Church does not condone this type of behavior towards anyone. The problem in this matter is not the Church - it is a symptom of a larger problem in our society. We have to remember that the Church always, always has the best interests of every individual in mind - that is, the Church has every soul’s salvation in mind. Although we can’t literally force everyone to follow Catholicism, we sure can evangelize, in many different ways! Just imagine if every single Catholic today were to proclaim Christ’s truth, in a loving way - I firmly believe that if this were to happen, the world could be changed very quickly.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

I reluctantly chose “adherence to tradition”, but I meant Sacred Tradition, which includes the entire faith.

Ditto. I voted quickly and only noted afterward the small t that might indicate the poster meant changeable disciplines.

 

[johnnyc176]

The Church stated that we are to love the sinner and hate the sin. Gat people, therefore, are not sinners unless they take part in sex that the CCC claims is wrong.

Jesus stated that we are to love the sinner and hate the sin. Homosexuals, therefore, are not sinners unless they take part in sex that Jesus says is wrong.

 

[abucs]

I understand that most posters are not interested in personal anecdotes, but this one incident did truly change my view on judging other human beings.

Isn’t there a difference between judging people (that is, having an opinion about their actions) and being mean and bullying to them?

Regarding the poll, I won’t criticise it but I would caution against reducing Catholicism to beliefs ‘Being’ is much more important.

What did Jesus say? “Do you believe in God? So does the devil”

As a Catholic I would expect the Devil also believes in the truth of many Catholic doctrines. He just wouldn’t respect any of them.

 

[zab]

I’m sorry, I am passionate about negatively judging an entire group of humans based on fear mongering. Let me explain. In 7th and 8th grade my French teacher was very effeminate. He was a teacher that loved the subject he taught. In 8th grade, kids began a series of incidents meant to embarrass the poor man. Someone hung a jock strap from the flag in the classroom and scrawled “queer” on the blackboard frequently. Yes, this was 1965, so times were different, however; that is no excuse for the actions of a bunch of spoiled upper middle class white kids who thought they were entitled to harass those different from themselves. In May of 8th grade the poor man hung himself in his apartment. I remember my Mom saying that society has helped in his suicide. I realized, at that very second, that I was part of that society that helped drive him to despair. Never again. As soon as my daughter was old enough to understand my story, I told her how I had been part of a group that helped another human being to lose all faith and the will to live. To this day she remembers what I told her. I understand that most posters are not interested in personal anecdotes, but this one incident did truly change my view on judging other human beings.

“…spoiled upper middle class white kids…” That may have been the case in your situation but why was it necessary to point out that the misbehaving kids were white? And it is also sad when some people are assumed to be “gay” when they are not.

 

[ClaireS]

I chose belief in the transubstantiation as the most essential of the choices offered. But I’ve always thought that belief in the divinity of Christ and the Resurrection were the truly essential beliefs.

Yes, my first thought was ‘if Christ is not risen our faith is in vain.’ That is at least the beginning.