Most non-Catholic sects declare that the Holy Spirit is 'teaching' them the truth.

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However, there can be only one truth. Since the advent of Sola Scriptura and individual interpretation of Scripture, how can the Holy Spirit be in each of the thousands of sects, teaching all of them opposing viewpoints? The following denominations teach from the same Bible, so why the differences in teaching?
  1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?
  2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?
  3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?
  4. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?
  5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, ‘once saved always saved’, and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?
  6. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?
  7. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GO
 
Sola Scriptura is a belief system that replaces the living Holy Spirit with a limited book.
 
BILL PICK said:
However, there can be only one truth. Since the advent of Sola Scriptura and individual interpretation of Scripture, how can the Holy Spirit be in each of the thousands of sects, teaching all of them opposing viewpoints? The following denominations teach from the same Bible, so why the differences in teaching?
  1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?
  2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?
  3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?
  4. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?
  5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, ‘once saved always saved’, and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?
  6. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?
  7. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GO
Click to expand...
Bill,
How could the Holy Spirit tell the Catholic Church there is a purgatory, and the Orthodox Church there is not?

How could the Holy Spirit tell the Catholic Church the pope is infallible, and the Orthodox Church he is not?

How could the Holy Spirit describe the real presence as Transubstantiation to the Catholic Church, but as a mystery to the Orthodox?

Jon
 
JonNC said:
Bill,
How could the Holy Spirit tell the Catholic Church there is a purgatory, and the Orthodox Church there is not?

How could the Holy Spirit tell the Catholic Church the pope is infallible, and the Orthodox Church he is not?

How could the Holy Spirit describe the real presence as Transubstantiation to the Catholic Church, but as a mystery to the Orthodox?

Jon
Click to expand...
The Orthodox are in schism, and schism leads to heresy.
 
BILL PICK said:
However, there can be only one truth. Since the advent of Sola Scriptura and individual interpretation of Scripture, how can the Holy Spirit be in each of the thousands of sects, teaching all of them opposing viewpoints? The following denominations teach from the same Bible, so why the differences in teaching?
  1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?
  2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?
  3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?
  4. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?
  5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, ‘once saved always saved’, and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?
  6. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?
  7. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GO
Click to expand...
How about the Holy Spirit teaching the Orthodox that Mary was not the immaculate conception? How about the church fathers that commented she was a sinner?

How about the Popes and Jerome that taught the works of the apocrypha should only be used for edification and never for doctrines of faith.

How about the church fathers that interpret the rock in Matthew 16 as being the confession of Faith.

How about … well I think you get the point now.
 
NDfan said:
How about the Holy Spirit teaching the Orthodox that Mary was not the immaculate conception? How about the church fathers that commented she was a sinner?

How about the Popes and Jerome that taught the works of the apocrypha should only be used for edification and never for doctrines of faith.

How about the church fathers that interpret the rock in Matthew 16 as being the confession of Faith.

How about … well I think you get the point now.
Click to expand...
In honor of the mother of the octuplets, Denny’s is offering
a new breakfast meal: The Octo-Slam. You get fourteen
eggs, no sausage, and the guy next to you has to pay the bill.
 
NDfan said:
How about the Holy Spirit teaching the Orthodox that Mary was not the immaculate conception?
Click to expand...
So, what? The Orthodox aren’t in full communion with the Church. Lumen Gentium categorizes them alongside the Protestants and the Anglicans. (chapter 2, paragraph 16, or thereabouts, I think.)
How about the church fathers that commented she was a sinner?
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What about them? The sensus fidelium is that she was not. They had a minority opinion which did not prevail after further study by the Church as a whole.
How about the Popes and Jerome that taught the works of the apocrypha should only be used for edification and never for doctrines of faith.
Click to expand...
This was St. Jerome’s opinion for a period of time while he was under the influence of the Palestinian Jews - he did not continue to believe this after further study of the issue, or else he would not have included those books in the Bible - he knew he was creating the official Bible of the Church. I am not aware of any Pope making a distinction between them; however, if he did, it didn’t affect his ruling to include those books in the Bible, which, yes. St. Jerome disagreed with him and argued with him, and then studied the issue some more and came to agree with him.
How about the church fathers that interpret the rock in Matthew 16 as being the confession of Faith.
Click to expand...
All of them also say that Peter was the first Pope.
 
BILL PICK said:
In honor of the mother of the octuplets, Denny’s is offering
a new breakfast meal: The Octo-Slam. You get fourteen
eggs, no sausage, and the guy next to you has to pay the bill.
Click to expand...
So as usual you only post something ridiculous instead of answering the post :coffeeread:
 
NDfan said:
So as usual you only post something ridiculous instead of answering the post :coffeeread:
Click to expand...
I think he is pointing out, using irony, what the “freedom” of Protestantism’s make-it-up-as-you-go-along theology has brought us to.
 
jmcrae said:
So, what? The Orthodox aren’t in full communion with the Church. Lumen Gentium categorizes them alongside the Protestants and the Anglicans. (chapter 2, paragraph 16, or thereabouts, I think.)
Click to expand...
So that means the Holy Spirit is not guiding them??
What about them? The sensus fidelium is that she was not. They had a minority opinion which did not prevail after further study by the Church as a whole.
Click to expand...
Further study?? What study?? Who in the church lived during the time of Mary that can ever say she was sinless? Answer: No one.
This was St. Jerome’s opinion for a period of time while he was under the influence of the Palestinian Jews - he did not continue to believe this after further study of the issue, or else he would not have included those books in the Bible - he knew he was creating the official Bible of the Church. I am not aware of any Pope making a distinction between them; however, if he did, it didn’t affect his ruling to include those books in the Bible, which, yes. St. Jerome disagreed with him and argued with him, and then studied the issue some more and came to agree with him.
Click to expand...
Oh yea so let’s blame it on the Palestinian Jews which is the oldest excuse ever. As far as Jerome knowing he was creating the official bible of the church? Uhh that’s complete rubbish. Jerome himself flat out stated that his version was not inspired and should never be used as the standard. Jerome never wanted the Apocryphal works included in the Vulgate and only created them as works to be used for edification. They were given secondary status or libri ecclesiastici instead of libri canonici because Jerome did not believe they were inspired.

Do we really need to tear apart the apocryphal books so I can show you why they don’t belong?? It probably doesn’t matter since you wouldn’t agree with me anyway.
All of them also say that Peter was the first Pope.
Click to expand...
Maybe the Popes consider Peter as the first Pope but so what. I wouldn’t expect anything else.
 
jmcrae said:
I think he is pointing out, using irony, what the “freedom” of Protestantism’s make-it-up-as-you-go-along theology has brought us to.
Click to expand...
I got the point Jmcrae. Again a useless post. When all else fails let’s just be sarcastic. Typical!!
 
  1. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GO
Actually, the Mutants from Kolob teach in their Doctrine and Covenants that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate gods.

They also teach that the entity they call “god the father” had a father before him, grandfathers, greatgrandfathers, and so on–as well as female ancestors.
 
How could the Holy Spirit tell the Catholic Church there is a purgatory, and the Orthodox Church there is not?

There is actually a very similar doctrine in Orthodoxy called the toll houses. It basically says the same thing under a different image.

How could the Holy Spirit describe the real presence as Transubstantiation to the Catholic Church, but as a mystery to the Orthodox?

Many Orthodox theologians have used the term “transubstiation”, including the distinction between substance and accidents.

Others have used the term, but have not committed themselves to this distinction, meaning no more than the Eucharistic elements truly become the Body and Blood of Christ.

Ultimately, the Latin teaching of transubstantation is a way of explaning HOW this change takes place.
 
JonNC said:
Bill,
How could the Holy Spirit tell the Catholic Church there is a purgatory, and the Orthodox Church there is not?

How could the Holy Spirit tell the Catholic Church the pope is infallible, and the Orthodox Church he is not?

How could the Holy Spirit describe the real presence as Transubstantiation to the Catholic Church, but as a mystery to the Orthodox?

Jon
Click to expand...
The “split” between the Eastern Churches, and the Western (Roman) Church had a long history (which you may be interested in pursuing in the History Books of the Catholic Church). The actual “split” came in 1054, when the Patriarchate of Constantinople split from the Church of Rome. The main issue that led to the split was the refusal of the Eastern Church to accept the PRIMACY OF THE POPE OF ROME, THE SUCCESSOR OF ST. PETER. The Eastern Churches are Cathlic Churches, whose members number about 12,000.000 throughout the world: originally they were the patriarchates of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem. Today the five principal rites are the Byzantine, Anexandrian, Antiochene, Armenian, and Chaldean. As Vatican II, in the Decree on Eastern Churches says: “The Catholic Church values highly the institutions of the Eastern Churches, their liturgical rites, ecclesiastical traditions and their ordering of Christian life. For in these churches, which are distinguished by their venerable antiquity, there is clearly evident the tradition which has come from the apostles through the Fathers and which is part of the divinely revealed, undivided heritage of the Universal Church.” (# 1). Both stem from the foundation of the Church byJesusChrist. There are some who still do not recognize the Primacy of the Bishop of Rome. (this is what is meant by saying they are in schism) The Roman Catholic Church s considered to be fully the Church founded by Jesus Christ
 
BILL PICK said:
However, there can be only one truth. Since the advent of Sola Scriptura and individual interpretation of Scripture, how can the Holy Spirit be in each of the thousands of sects, teaching all of them opposing viewpoints? The following denominations teach from the same Bible, so why the differences in teaching?
  1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?
  2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?
  3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?
  4. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?
  5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, ‘once saved always saved’, and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?
  6. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?
  7. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GO
Click to expand...
I would say that is the abuse of Holy Spirit which resulted in many denominations.
 
The reason is that it is being discerned by man which is prone to error. Protestants do have the same bible (for the most part) and do share many of the same beliefs including baptisms and the Eucharist. I’m a baptized Christian and am attending RCIA classes and am amazed at all of the similarities between how I was raised and the teaching of the Catholic Church.

I think it’s a bad generalization to say that most non-Catholic sects are like this when it’s not true. Instead of saying that, why not share the Catholic beliefs with people and help them gain an understanding…
 
The Holy Spirit teaches one truth, The people don’t all “get it.”

A teacher can teach the same lesson to all of her class of 25 students on multiplication all at once. Just because her lesson is correct on all counts does not mean that the 25 students can each answer the 100 homework multiplication problems correctly by the following day.

The problem is with the students, not the teacher. Some get it perfectly, some get most of it, some get a small portion, some will add the problems instead of multiplying out of pure stubbornness. This does not mean the teacher did not try to teach them. It also does not mean that the Teacher will simply give up on them and go find a new class. It does not mean the Teacher was never there in the first place. It also doesn’t mean that the students who made errors were TRYING to make errors.

Even in the Catholic Church where you have the Holy Spirit teaching the “Church” thus providing an additional teacher, all the “students” don’t always get it. And some of them also stubbornly do what they want instead of what is taught. You call them “Cafeteria Catholics.” 🤷

I’m not sure if you are trying to blame human fallibility on the Holy Spirit, on sola scriptua, on protestants in general, or whom, but it looks like a sweeping generalization to me.
 
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