Most U.S. Catholics hope for change in church rule on divorce, Communion

[gilliam]

The Vatican synod on the family concluded over the weekend – with somewhat inconclusive results that were open to multiple interpretations.

While there were many topics of conversation – including homosexuality, cohabitation and contraception – much of the focus fell on Catholics who have been divorced and remarried without an annulment, and the debate over whether the church would allow them to receive Communion. The synod’s final document, with each paragraph approved by at least two-thirds of the 265 voting bishops in attendance, did not take a clear stance on the issue, but some observers expect Pope Francis may leave it up to local parishes.

http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2015/10/PF_15.09.02_CatholicSurvey_pies640px-1.png

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/26/most-u-s-catholics-hope-for-change-in-church-rule-on-divorce-communion/

 

[exnihilo]

Good thing doctrine and practice isn’t left up to a vote from the laity. But do the results include anyone who claims to be Catholic or is it limited to people who actually attend Mass regularly?

 

[_Abyssinia]

Looking at the graph, if many of those people polled don’t believe homosexual behaviour etc. is a sin, it’s hardly a shock that they would think divorced and remarried Catholics should receive Communion. It’s unfortunate that the poll has the results that it does, and I suspect many of those polled aren’t practising Catholics, but many of those polled are probably not catechised properly.

 

[Seamus_L]

It would seem to indicate that only about 17 pct of Catholics are actually Catholic. Sounds about right.

 

[_Abyssinia]

For example, when “Catholics” are lumped together as a group, only 39% polled believe that homosexual behavior is sinful, as the Church teaches. When narrowing the scope to Catholics who attend Mass at least once a week, that number jumps up to nearly 60%. While this still displays a need for catechesis among many Catholics, there is a 20-percentage point difference between the two figures

catholicnewsagency.com/blog/about-that-poll-on-catholics-and-the-traditional-family/

I think this in reference to the same Pew study.

 

[Petaro]

The Vatican synod on the family concluded over the weekend – with somewhat inconclusive results that were open to multiple interpretations.

While there were many topics of conversation – including homosexuality, cohabitation and contraception – much of the focus fell on Catholics who have been divorced and remarried without an annulment, and the debate over whether the church would allow them to receive Communion. The synod’s final document, with each paragraph approved by at least two-thirds of the 265 voting bishops in attendance, did not take a clear stance on the issue, but some observers expect Pope Francis may leave it up to local parishes.

http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2015/10/PF_15.09.02_CatholicSurvey_pies640px-1.png

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/26/most-u-s-catholics-hope-for-change-in-church-rule-on-divorce-communion/

This may reflect more on the crisis in the American Church than on the truth of doctrine. Thank the Holy Spirit that the Church is not a democracy of the mediocre.
I trust the Holy Spirit will guide the Pope in this matter of doctrine and pastoral care. I pray that those who flocked to see him recently will listen to his teachings as our Pontiff.

 

[ARSpade]

For example, when “Catholics” are lumped together as a group, only 39% polled believe that homosexual behavior is sinful, as the Church teaches. When narrowing the scope to Catholics who attend Mass at least once a week, that number jumps up to nearly 60%. While this still displays a need for catechesis among many Catholics, there is a 20-percentage point difference between the two figures

catholicnewsagency.com/blog/about-that-poll-on-catholics-and-the-traditional-family/

I think this in reference to the same Pew study.

Yeah, I’d go with the quoted. Combination of poor catechesis and polling a ton of people who call themselves Catholic because their parents and grandparents are but they haven’t darkened the door of a Church in decades.

I’m a cradle Catholic (age 33) and didn’t know what the CCC was until I was in my twenties. My parents and my church did a horrible job training me to be a Catholic. And it always seems like the USCCB’s priorities are stuff like this, and immigration, and health care and whatnot and lots of stuff other than “our clergy, religious, parents, and our schools are doing a horrible job of creating the next generation of Catholics.”

It’s also not a shock that most Catholics think contraception isn’t a sin. They may really think that. I didn’t hear a homily on it until I was in my 30s.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Given the percentage of Catholics who either do not grasp or do not care about the importance of keeping holy the Sabbath and attending Mass, and the number who do not grasp or do not care about the evil that is artificial contraception, I do not see results like this surprising at all.

I suspect many portray polls like this as an indication that the Church is out of touch with people, when the reality is polls like this highlight that its members are out of touch with proper catechsis and a steadfast belief and love for their Church.

I have a friend who refuses to go to confession, beliving he does not have to (its been over a decade), and generally makes up his own mind on issues regarding morality. Why should I much care what he thinks, other than to highlight the need to pray for him? His “thoughts” on the Church have zero credibility, much as do the thoughts of people who can’t even be bothered to attend Mass for one hour a week.

Pollsters can’t grasp the depth and breadth of Catholicism and what it entails, beyond the Sacrament of Baptism. They can understand someone who is baptized Catholic; they can’t seem to understand what it is to truly live your life as a Catholic.

 

[MaryT777]

This may reflect more on the crisis in the American Church than on the truth of doctrine. Thank the Holy Spirit that the Church is not a democracy of the mediocre.
I trust the Holy Spirit will guide the Pope in this matter of doctrine and pastoral care. I pray that those who flocked to see him recently will listen to his teachings as our Pontiff.

Agreed.

Mary.

 

[marymary1975]

Yeah, I’d go with the quoted. Combination of poor catechesis and polling a ton of people who call themselves Catholic because their parents and grandparents are but they haven’t darkened the door of a Church in decades.

I’m a cradle Catholic (age 33) and didn’t know what the CCC was until I was in my twenties. My parents and my church did a horrible job training me to be a Catholic. And it always seems like the USCCB’s priorities are stuff like this, and immigration, and health care and whatnot and lots of stuff other than “our clergy, religious, parents, and our schools are doing a horrible job of creating the next generation of Catholics.”

It’s also not a shock that most Catholics think contraception isn’t a sin. They may really think that. I didn’t hear a homily on it until I was in my 30s.

I agree. This is a very sad situation which I think is the result of poor cathechisis and interviewing a lot of people who are not practising Catholic. However I have to say I am not surprised. I hope that the church takes note of this and starts an intensive job of catechism.

 

[Michael1978]

13 Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Matthew 7:13-14 RSVCE

 

[phil19034]

what would the results be if they actually polled people who believe that missing mass on Sunday is a Mortal Sin?

What would the numbers be for the people who actually attend mass & every Holy Day of Obligation? I’m sure they would reflect being in line with the Church teachings

 

[DaveBj]

Quote:
13 Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Matthew 7:13-14 RSVCE

Beat me to it. And that we have to quote it in this context.

 

[ProVobis]

I can’t say I blame them. After all, they pretty much got what they wanted in the 60’s and 70’s. So much so, there’s very little of Catholic identity left.

But why are they pushing for rule changes if they’re going to ignore or defy the rules anyway?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

what would the results be if they actually polled people who believe that missing mass on Sunday is a Mortal Sin?

What would the numbers be for the people who actually attend mass & every Holy Day of Obligation? I’m sure they would reflect being in line with the Church teachings

I think many here believe that Pew found Roman Catholics who were not practicing in order to get the numbers they did. I’m not so sure that is the case. There are a large number of people who DO go to Mass every Sunday yet believe that homosexuality (and those in same gender relationships and families) and divorce/remarriage and birth control are not sins. It’s a different community of the faithful than you may be used to, but it seems that in the US (and probably other western countries) they are well in the majority.

Perhaps it’s time to acknowledge that there are differing beliefs - just as we saw in the Synod. It will be interesting to watch what unfolds as things change and those beliefs are given credence. Perhaps it will be through the pastoral route that practices will change.

 

[FreeEver]

I wouldn’t totally despair regarding this particular poll. Let’s pray and ask the Holy Spirit to move forward and reverse these trends with the upcoming Holy Year of Mercy.

The Extraordinary Jubilee of Mercy will begin on Dec. 8, the day of the feast of the Immaculate Conception, and which this year will mark the 50th anniversary of the Second Vatican Council. It will end on Nov. 20, 2016, on the feast of Christ the King.

Luke Chapter 1, ”for nothing will be impossible for God.”

God Bless and Peace to all.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Good thing doctrine and practice isn’t left up to a vote from the laity. But do the results include anyone who claims to be Catholic or is it limited to people who actually attend Mass regularly?

A better question to ask,does this survey actually include Catholics who are well formed in the teaching of their Catholic faith with a clear
Under standing of what and why the Church teaches what it does.

 

[Genesis315]

Would this make the other 83 percent “heretics”?

(Heretic: belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine)

.

Heresy is defined by the Church a bit more strictly: “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same…” (CCC 2109).

Just being wrong, does not make you a heretic, as St. Augustine says–there needs to be a spirit of obstinacy:
St. Augustine:

The Apostle Paul has said: A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject, knowing that he that is such is subverted and sins, being condemned of himself. Titus 3:10-11 But though the doctrine which men hold be false and perverse, if they do not maintain it with passionate obstinacy, especially when they have not devised it by the rashness of their own presumption, but have accepted it from parents who had been misguided and had fallen into error, and if they are with anxiety seeking the truth, and are prepared to be set right when they have found it, such men are not to be counted heretics.

newadvent.org/fathers/1102043.htm

St. Thomas Aquinas also explains how those let down by their shepherds are not heretics (note in the passage below, by “explicit faith” he means one personally having the correct beliefs and knowledge on every point).

Objection 3. Further, if the simple are bound to have, not explicit but only implicit faith, their faith must needs be implied in the faith of the learned. But this seems unsafe, since it is possible for the learned to err. Therefore it seems that the simple should also have explicit faith; so that all are, therefore, equally bound to have explicit faith.

[St. Thomas’s’]Reply to Objection 3. The simple have no faith implied in that of the learned, except in so far as the latter adhere to the Divine teaching. Hence the Apostle says (1 Corinthians 4:16): “Be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ.” Hence it is not human knowledge, but the Divine truth that is the rule of faith: and if any of the learned stray from this rule, he does not harm the faith of the simple ones, who think that the learned believe aright; unless the simple hold obstinately to their individual errors, against the faith of the universal Church, which cannot err, since Our Lord said (Luke 22:32): “I have prayed for thee,” Peter, “that thy faith fail not.”

newadvent.org/summa/3002.htm

There’s not enough information from just a survey to tell who is actually a heretic and who is not.

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR WARNING

As a general rule we frown on anyone calling on the forums calling anyone else a heretic (or linking to commentary that does) or that they are practicing heresy. It is an extremely serious accusation and most of the time it is used, it is inaccurate and very uncharitable.

 

[Michael1978]

I think many here believe that Pew found Roman Catholics who were not practicing in order to get the numbers they did. I’m not so sure that is the case. There are a large number of people who DO go to Mass every Sunday yet believe that homosexuality (and those in same gender relationships and families) and divorce/remarriage and birth control are not sins. It’s a different community of the faithful than you may be used to, but it seems that in the US (and probably other western countries) they are well in the majority.

Perhaps it’s time to acknowledge that there are differing beliefs - just as we saw in the Synod. It will be interesting to watch what unfolds as things change and those beliefs are given credence. Perhaps it will be through the pastoral route that practices will change.

Oh, certainly there are differing beliefs. That’s why there are thousands of religions. But the Truth does not change even if no one believes it. The Doctrines of the Church do not change even if no one follows them. Those that deny that homosexual acts, birth control, abortion, etc. are sins are blinded by the world, the flesh and devil, and they heap judgment upon themselves by denying the Truth. We pray that they will reconcile themselves to God, will confess their sins and amend their lifestyles. The Bible tells us that “if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” But if we do not even acknowledge that a sin is in fact a sin, then we are precluded from mercy because we do not seek it.