Mother of God - Brother of God?

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conrad01:
Svedsen is prejudiced away; you are prejudiced toward. So we have two prejudices at work.

Mary is never referred to as the Mother of God anywhere in the N.T. She is always referred to as the mother of Jesus (3x).

Your prejudice takes you outside of God’s word with respect to Mary.

Deny it all you want, but that is true.
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Mary is never referred to as Mother of God in the Bible (never mind “Mother of my Lord”) but that does not make the title any less true.

Mothers don’t give birth to natures. They give birth to persons. I would never say my mother gave birth to my nature. I say she gave birth to ME.

It’s the same with Mary and Christ. Mary is not mother of Christ because she gave him his human nature. Neither do we call her Mother of God because she gave Christ his divine nature either (of course she didn’t). She is Jesus’ Mother because she gave BIRTH to him. THAT’s the definition of Mother.

The question now is WHO is the person Mary gave birth to? That Person is the Second Person of the Trinity. Jesus had two natures, divine and human. However, he is only one Person, and that Person is God the Son, a Divine Person. Jesus is not a human person.

Calling Mary Mother of God reinforces this. If we deny her this title, then we say she gave birth to a human person (heresy). If that were true, then God did not experience death on the Cross, and we would still be lost. Calling Mary Mother of God is not about Mary. It’s a truth about Christ.
 
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conrad01:
Svedsen is prejudiced away; you are prejudiced toward. So we have two prejudices at work.

Mary is never referred to as the Mother of God anywhere in the N.T. She is always referred to as the mother of Jesus (3x).

Your prejudice takes you outside of God’s word with respect to Mary.

Deny it all you want, but that is true.
Click to expand...
The Trinity
God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit

Luke 1:43
And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Is Jesus God? Yes

Mary is the Mother God.

Case closed
 
The Church has used the term Theotokos (Mother of God or God-bearer) primarily as a way of insisting that Jesus IS God. If Jesus is God, and Mary is his mother, we can call her Mother of God.

But she is Mother of God only because He chose her to be his mother–the only person who has chosen His own mother. Only if Jesus is not God, is Mary not mother of God.

It is a Christological, not a Mariological, theology.
 
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conrad01:
Svedsen is prejudiced away; you are prejudiced toward. So we have two prejudices at work.

Mary is never referred to as the Mother of God anywhere in the N.T. She is always referred to as the mother of Jesus (3x).
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I wonder then what Elizabeth was saying when she referred to Mary as “mother of my Lord”. :ehh:
 
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JimG:
The Church has used the term Theotokos (Mother of God or God-bearer) primarily as a way of insisting that Jesus IS God. If Jesus is God, and Mary is his mother, we can call her Mother of God.

But she is Mother of God only because He chose her to be his mother–the only person who has chosen His own mother. Only if Jesus is not God, is Mary not mother of God.

It is a Christological, not a Mariological, theology.
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Which is exactly the point of Ephesus: the emphasis of the title is not on Mary really, but on Jesus. Nestorius and his adherents wanted to use Christotokos since they, as many Protestants seem to now as well, wanted to separate Jesus’ divine and human natures. The Council’s reply is a vocal no with Theotokos. Interestingly, when I pointed this out to a Protestant friend of mine, he admitted that the Council acted on Biblical grounds, and was right on giving Mary that title in relation to Jesus. We have to emphasize that point again: the title of Mary is in relation to Jesus, not separate from Him.
 
Mickey said:
The Trinity
God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit

Luke 1:43
And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Is Jesus God? Yes

Mary is the Mother God.

Case closed
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Notice that Lk 1:43 says “mother of my Lord.” Lord is a title. Nowhere in the scripture is Mary called mother of God, only mother of my Lord and mother of Jesus. Only sinful men believe that Mary is the mother of God; that is a precept of sinful men.
 
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Milliardo:
I wonder then what Elizabeth was saying when she referred to Mary as “mother of my Lord”. :ehh:
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Lord is a title; God is not. Where in the scripture is Mary called the mother of God?
 
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porthos11:
Mary is never referred to as Mother of God in the Bible (never mind “Mother of my Lord”) but that does not make the title any less true.

Mothers don’t give birth to natures. They give birth to persons. I would never say my mother gave birth to my nature. I say she gave birth to ME.
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Brilliant!
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porthos11:
Calling Mary Mother of God reinforces this. If we deny her this title, then we say she gave birth to a human person (heresy). If that were true, then God did not experience death on the Cross, and we would still be lost. Calling Mary Mother of God is not about Mary. It’s a truth about Christ.
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You Catholics carelessly accuse people of heresy; all of the Marian doctrines are heresy; what are you talking about? Christ was crucified; stop clouding the issue; Marian doctrine is heretical.
 
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conrad01:
Brilliant!

You Catholics carelessly accuse people of heresy; all of the Marian doctrines are heresy; what are you talking about? Christ was crucified; stop clouding the issue; Marian doctrine is heretical.
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No. Refusing to acknowledge that Mary is Mother of God is heretical. In fact it is a major heresy that goes against the basic precepts of christianity, established at the four great Councils of the Ancient Church.

Denying that Mary is true Mother of Jesus, God the Son, is denying the reality of the Incarnation of Jesus, and to fall into one of the Gnostic heresies - **Docetisism, Apollinarianism **or Nestorianism.

All of these heresies are rejected by true Christians of all denominations.
For if Jesus is not truly Son of God and Son of Mary, and so true God and true man, his crucifixion was in vain, and can save no-one**.**
 
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conrad01:
Lord is a title; God is not. Where in the scripture is Mary called the mother of God?
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allaboutgod.com/Names-Of-God.htm

"YHVH" is the Hebrew word that translates as “LORD”. Found more often in the Old Testament than any other name for God (approximately 7,000 times), the title is also referred to as the “Tetragrammaton,” meaning the “The Four Letters”. YHVH comes from the Hebrew verb “to be” and is the special name that God revealed to Moses at the burning bush. “And God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM; and He said, thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you… this is My eternal name, and this is how I am to be recalled for all generations’” (Exodus 3:14-15). Therefore, YHVH declares God’s absolute being"

revelations.org.za/NotesS-Name.htm
The Sacred Name appears in the Hebrew Scriptures as four Hebrew letters *Yud, hey, vav, hey, *whichis closest represented by the lettersYHVH. This format is known as the Tetragammaton. According to Jewish tradition it is regarded as ‘not to be uttered’ in order never to profane it in any way. In Judaism it is therefore pronounced as ‘Adonai’, meaning ‘Lord’. Notwithstanding this prohibition, the Sacred Name is acknowledged in its usage as part of the names of many Biblical characters, as referred to above - and as any Bible concordance or reference book will provide.

The online explanations could be multiplied, but you get the picture.
 
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conrad01:
Brilliant!

You Catholics carelessly accuse people of heresy; all of the Marian doctrines are heresy; what are you talking about? Christ was crucified; stop clouding the issue; Marian doctrine is heretical.
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I’m talking about Church history and Christology, but you wouldn’t know these things now, would you?

Well, you’ve been suspended, but here goes anyway.

The only clouds are in your judgment and prejudice against Catholics. Christ was crucified, but who was Christ? Was he a human, or a divine person? Because the answer to that determines whether or not his death meant anything at all. If he were a human person, then his death meant nothing. It would only mean anything if he were divine. This is what Ephesus enforced, and your position condemned. Mary is the Mother of God because the Person she gave birth to is divine. If you assert that Mary is not the Mother of God, then you refuse to acknowledge the divinity of the Person who is Christ, or you split him into two Persons, both of which are heresies, Araianism and Nestorianism respectively.

None of what I’ve written is false. In fact, ALL major Protestant groups adhere to the Christological facts I mentioned here.

It doesn’t matter that Mother of God is not found in the Bible. So what? By reading the Bible and knowing Christ, you cannot deny that she is Mother of God because of the divinity of the Person she bore.
 
John’s gospel begins:

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity, is the Word. He is God. Mary is his mother. Ergo, she is the mother of God. Don’t say Catholics created this doctrine. God did. He is the One who chose to have a human mother.

If the Word can become flesh --the Incarnation-- it is not difficult to believe that the Word can have a human mother.
 
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