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Dorothy
Guest
Because God is perfect love He wants to share His Divine Life with others.
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Lochias
Guest
This view stems from a misunderstanding of Hell. Those who are in Hell, simply put, want to be there more than they want to be in the presence of God, Who they shunned in life. A soul that chooses Hell says “How DARE you show me what I could be, if I loved You and trusted You? How DARE you show me what I am, without You? I will hide in the dark forever, away from you, so that I do not have to see what I have chosen to be in the Light of Your presence.” God does not ever force our free will, and He will not force those who do not want to be with Him to stay with Him forever.
The bolded is mine. You are correct; it does not apply.
The fact is, God DID create us and DID create the world. He Is generous and all-loving. The questions you’re asking yourself essentially amount to “What if circles were square?” or “What if red was blue?” Circles are circles, squares are squares and God is all-loving and generous. True. You’ve got a good grasp of things there.
The fact that God is unchanging means we can trust His word and His action. As God is omnipotent, He also knew us before we were ever created; He has always loved us, and He will always love us.
See above. That God has chosen to give some of what we know about Him through His creation (men) only underscores our importance. It takes study of history, logic and theology to understand and see the connections between God’s actions through the ages concerning His relationship with man.
History, theology, logic. Study the early Christians, and look at WHY we believe what we believe. It takes time, but you will find the answers you seek. If I can help, I’d be glad to.
Sorry about that. What I mean is, there is no “potentiality” to God’s love; He knew us before we were ever created (which ought to make you feel very special about yourself, indeed). All things happen in God’s time, including our creation here on earth; God has loved us from the very beginning of time, and before.
Yup. God doesn’t need us, yet here We are. I feel loved, for my part. Do you?
He does love all of creation equally, but not all creation is equal. We are afforded the astounding gift of receiving Christ in the Real Presence of the Eucharist, something that no other creature in creation is given, not even the angels. Now, that’s not to say that we don’t look up to the angels for what they are, or that we are inherently better than they; they just aren’t allotted some of what we are, and vice-versa. I’m pointing it out as an example of just how much God DOES love us, and has always loved us. I recommend more reading on the angels by the various Saints in order to increase your knowledge and perspective.
Do you think people NEED their spouses to be happy and whole human beings? If someone loses their spouse in an accident, say, do they automatically shrivel up and die without them?
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Dorothy
Guest
To HardrockGTR"
I don’t know if this will be helpful for you, but I will mention it:
God is family (Trinity). Three Persons …One God. This “family” reaches out in perfect Love.
No one of those Persons is either of the others, each one is wholly himself. The First Person (called Father) infinitely loves the Second Person (called Son) with a love we cannot imagine. …And the Son loves the Father likewise. This generates the Third Person (called Holy Spirit).
This Divine Family wants to share its Divine Life with others who will accept it.
The Mystery of Love!
I don’t know if this will be helpful for you, but I will mention it:
God is family (Trinity). Three Persons …One God. This “family” reaches out in perfect Love.
No one of those Persons is either of the others, each one is wholly himself. The First Person (called Father) infinitely loves the Second Person (called Son) with a love we cannot imagine. …And the Son loves the Father likewise. This generates the Third Person (called Holy Spirit).
This Divine Family wants to share its Divine Life with others who will accept it.
The Mystery of Love!
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clem456
Guest
Exactly. God is love even before we were created. He doesn’t need us to love because he is love. Love creates (is fruitful) by nature. He creates us because he is love.
The Trinity is not a concept it is a loving relationship. Father Son and Holy Spirit are divine persons.
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HardRockGTR
Guest
That’s my point. Those who shunned God are those who didn’t realize in their mortal life that it’s better to accept Him.
I still am unable to believe that an atheist or non-Christian “hates” God by virtue of simply not knowing God or, at the very least, fear Him and convince themselves out of fear that He is not real. I’m agnostic but I have no reason to hate God if He exists. It would be foolish to, and those who actively hate God are fools who simply don’t know better. Yet, from what I know, all the Abrahamic religions (barring perhaps Baha’i) insist that because of my agnosticism, I’m doomed to suffer both emotionally and physically for all eternity. I’d rather believe none of it is true, honestly, and that there is no afterlife, period. The existence of heaven is not worth the existence of hell. Free will is certainly not worth the existence of hell. What I’d want to see is Satan himself coming to peace with God and accepting Him. Some,* including Jesus himself*, would argue that it is better for someone (in context, it’s Judas) never to have lived than to wind up in hell. For that, *existence itself *is not worth the existence of hell.
I worry less about trusting God than I do about trusting myself in what I put my faith into.
Side note: I occasionally worry about Descartes’ Evil Demon theory (which I came up with independently of Descartes) as well, which is worse than solipsism (which I have considered in the past).
I’ll take your word for it.The bolded is mine. You are correct; it does not apply.
He also knew who was going to suffer eternal torment after death. Creating them and/or allowing such a punishment doesn’t sound like something a perfectly loving God would do. Again, I’d far more rather that everyone not have free will, but that we’re all pious and happy.
Of course. I certainly believe that theology and philosophy in general should be far more studied by the general public as it is foundation for any meaning in anything, especially considering that so many people aren’t very informed on the former. There are so many people to whom existential thoughts had not once crossed their minds.
Thanks. I guess the main goal of this forum’s faithful is to try to get more people closer to the faith. I mainly joined because I love theology, philosophy and religion as subjects and enjoy discussing them. In my humble opinion, I think I keep a very open mind (something a bad philosopher lacks) which can both aid and stifle my search for truth.
This may be diverting from the current discussion a bit, but does this mean that we, as a universe, are infinitesimally imperfect? We can’t be perfect like God as that is logical contradiction (without bringing pantheism into the picture), so God can only make us as close as possible to perfect. Does this mean He has made us infinitesimally imperfect, and does this mean no other universe could have been?
Gottfried Leibniz argued that this is the best of all possible worlds. Either Leibniz should have said “this is one of the many possible worlds that are best”, or there simply are no other possible universes.
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HardRockGTR
Guest
Makes sense. Of course, some Protestants will argue that we exist because of “God’s Plan”, and that God predestines us either to heaven or hell for His own purposes.
Why then are non-human animals refused admission to an afterlife like we are? This always has been a minor problem I’ve had with Christian cosmology.
Perhaps it’s because I’m the type who loves a person too much, but I probably would.
I say that and I’ve been single my entire life.
If divine life is happiness, again, I would be utterly foolish to deny it. Yet I’m agnostic.
Mark121359
Well-known member
St. Therese of Lisieux went through severe temptations against the Faith. In the early hours of Good Friday 1896, she coughed up blood which began her final illness. And by Easter Sunday she was plunged into spiritual darkness that remained with her the final 18 months of her life. Complete and total darkness! She described this desolation as a great wall raised between her and heaven, shutting out the very stars. She tells how an interior voice was continually telling her that there was nothing after death and that all her life of sacrifice and all her hopes were in vain. She confides to Sr. Teresa of Saint Augustine O.C.D., “If you only knew what darkness I am plunged into!” she said.* “I don’t believe in eternal life; I think that after this life there is nothing. Everything has disappeared on me, and I am left with love alone.” *These words, from a Saint who has been declared a Doctor of the Church. A Saint, that St. Pius X called “the greatest saint of modern times.” And my favorite Saint as well!
Peace, Mark
Peace, Mark
Mark121359
Well-known member
St. Therese of Lisieux went through severe temptations against the Faith. In the early hours of Good Friday 1896, she coughed up blood which began her final illness. And by Easter Sunday she was plunged into spiritual darkness that remained with her for the final 18 months of her life. Complete and total darkness! She described this desolation as a great wall raised between her and heaven, shutting out the very stars. She tells how an interior voice was continually telling her that there was nothing after death and that all her life of sacrifice and all her hopes were in vain. She confides to Sr. Teresa of Saint Augustine O.C.D., “If you only knew what darkness I am plunged into!” * she said.
“I don’t believe in eternal life; I think that after this life there is nothing. Everything has disappeared on me, and I am left with love alone.” *These words, from a Saint who has been declared a Doctor of the Church. A Saint, that St. Pius X called “the greatest Saint of modern times.” And my favorite Saint as well!
Peace, Mark
“I don’t believe in eternal life; I think that after this life there is nothing. Everything has disappeared on me, and I am left with love alone.” *These words, from a Saint who has been declared a Doctor of the Church. A Saint, that St. Pius X called “the greatest Saint of modern times.” And my favorite Saint as well!
Peace, Mark
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Lochias
Guest
…that doesn’t make any sense, though. Shunning, by its very nature, is denying something you know about. You can’t “shun” something you’re not informed about (though actively choosing not to be informed might be considered as such. It’s all about context).
You can’t shun what you don’t know. God knows our hearts better than any of us, including ourselves; we throw ourselves upon his Mercy, and in that mercy lies our hope. Now, if we really WANT that mercy, we start taking steps. Maybe they’re tiny, at first, but to claim something you first have to move toward it.
No Catholic has ever claimed to know with certainty if a person has been condemned to Hell, or not. (And the Baha’i believe that everything is true and nobody is wrong, so I’d take their ideas with a massive grain of salt.) You will only go to Hell after you die if that’s where you really WANT to be.
Hell is actually another sign of God’s mercy, believe it or not. He’s not going to force anyone who doesn’t want to be with Him to remain in His presence for eternity…it would be unbearable for them. You’ve got to understand that Hell is a CHOICE, not a punishment. The angels exist timelessly, and so have already made their ultimate choices. Satan will never be reconciled with God; he’s already made his choices, too, as did Judas.
That’s where diligent study about theology, logic, history and reason will help you.
I’m not familiar with that theory…can you extrapolate?
We’d all be pious, happy robots. What point would our existence even have, at that point? It’s precisely because of our free will that our lives have such meaning and purpose. And AGAIN, because of that free will, which imparts a true ability to love others, Hell is the most merciful choice for those whose free will leads them away from God.
Of course. I certainly believe that theology and philosophy in general should be far more
Truth.
There’s nothing wrong with an open mind; you’d never be able to talk to anyone remotely different from you if you didn’t have one. Just remember that an open mind does not, of itself, grant us a license to dismiss the truth any more than, say, owning a car grants us license to run people over with it. The mind is a tool, and any tool can be misused if we’re not careful.
To be honest, I’m not quite sure what you mean by “infinitesimally imperfect.” Philosophy is not, as of yet, one of my strengths. Can you explain for a layman, please?
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ffg
Guest
The subject of ‘a loving God’ and ‘eternal torment’ is a tough one to marry.
If you are having a dinner party for your parents and they cancel at the last minute, is their absense your fault?
Consider God as the host of the party. God texted an invitation to us (not a ransom note).
God perfectly loves, love by definition is freely given - to force a return, can’t be love.
So to say God perfectly loves AND people end up in eternal torment, to find the cause is not to point at God since it is an impossibility. We can’t blame God for being unloving, if He is All Loving.
That leaves us with looking at the tormented for a cause.
Why might someone reject an invitation to a party? There are as many answers as pixels on the screen. Let’s say they thought the invitation was junk mail.
How does someone ensure they don’t miss a party? They conciously and actively look for the invitation, they conciously RSVP, they conciously prepare for the party.
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hu324b
Guest
There are plenty of doubters in the bible its nothing new - Moses had his doubts right in the presence of God as one big example - God tests the faith of his choosing - lots of Saints I suspect had their moments of doubt with what some of them went through but their faith prevailed in the end which is all that matters - pray that our faith is not tested.
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Dorothy
Guest
Yes!
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HardRockGTR
Guest
Then “shun” isn’t the right term. Anyone who “shuns” (for lack of better term) God here on Earth merely doesn’t know God enough to not be foolish as to reject Him. In other words, nobody truly shuns God because nobody truly knows God, not even those with the beatific vision.
My devoutly Catholic father, at my age, was a militant atheist. If he died at my age (I’m 20), he’d likely be in hell, according to doctrine. Today, I doubt he’d wind up in hell, if his and your belief is the right one. Yet, young, rebellious, often godless (and almost always foolish) teenagers and young adults with potential of eventual change die all the time, especially because of reckless behavior, always a result of foolishness. However, there is literally no potential eventual change after death.
If free will is so great, we should also have free will after death. Intuitively, it makes more sense that we have no free will before death, but we do after it, rather than the other way around, and even that doesn’t make much sense.
Again, though, this doesn’t solve the problem that non-Christians (be they Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, pagan, pantheist, atheist, agnostic, etc.) have not found God of Christianity and, because of it, the Catholic Church and the bible itself teaches that they’re going to hell if they die unrepentant of not believing Christ is their savior.
But that’s simply not true. Jesus said Judas (who felt immense guilt, returned the thirty pieces of silver, and then killed himself as self-punishment and grief) was going to hell. And we know Satan and his angels are condemned to hell as well. Conversely, we have a list of saints, people the Church claims are already in heaven, and the beatified, who are soon going to be in heaven. Some saints have been horrible people, too; Torquemada was the most notorious name of the Spanish Inquisition (and if I’m not mistaken, all it took back then to be considered a saint was to be a martyr, which Torquemada certainly was), and Saint Paul slaughtered Christians by the dozen before his conversion.
That said, the Baha’i do not explicitly believe that everything is true, but rather that, like in Judaism, all nations of the world have been reached by God in some way or another. In their terminology, historical and allegedly historical figures such as Adam, Noah, Krishna, Moses, Abraham, Zoroaster, Buddha, Christ, Mohammad and Baha’ullah himself (who claims not to be the last prophet) are “Manifestations of God”.
The Baha’i view of afterlife is that heaven and hell aren’t explicit ‘presence’ or ‘absence’ of God, as much as it is degrees of separation; an active sinner will, by virtue of having sinned, naturally be “far” from God to the degree that he has sinned (or, no one is ‘sent’ to hell as much as they put themselves in it). That said, a murderer is going to be farther from God than a masturbator. Likewise, the opposite is true for the virtuous: the more pious a person is, the closer to God he will be. Also, important to note, is that one can still reach out for God after death, although the farther you are, the more difficult it is to get closer, so ultimately, those who love sin likely will eternally be in hell, and those who love piousness likely will remain in the direct presence of God forever.
I doubt anyone actively wants to be in hell, with the possible exception of theistic Satanists, who may simply just be part of the category of ‘foolish’ people.
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HardRockGTR
Guest
And hell isn’t?
The Orthodox Christian view is that all will have the beatific vision, but the wicked will hate it, and because of what you’re telling me, this seems to make more sense.
I am unable to reconcile hell being a choice with falling to temptation once, mortally sinning, dying before being capable of repenting and, according to Catholic doctrine, ultimately being sent to hell.
Still though, if angels are timeless, how were they capable of making the choice of rebellion in the first place, but incapable of changing their minds? Doesn’t make sense. Also, Judas wasn’t timeless.
Those have both aided and stifled me in my search for truth. But yeah. Ultimately, I study those subjects in great part out of interest.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_Demon
Long story short, Descartes hypothesized of a genial demon, that is for all intents and purposes an all-powerful malevolent god (deux deceptor), capable of unimaginable, “illogical” things including altering the laws of physics themselves. This god is hell-bent on deceiving him and tormenting him, such as simulating an external world when such a world doesn’t actually exist, and simulating a body for Descartes when it also doesn’t exist. Although Descartes was heavily criticized and accused of blasphemy in his time, his intention wasn’t to call God evil, but merely to state this philosophical hypothesis.
Later on, this hypothesis would develop into a thought experiment within philosophical skepticism. Although I find the idea of a hateful god hard to take seriously, this could very well just be the work of that very god who, for his own reasons, is deceiving me. God would, for all intents and purposes, be incredibly evil, and would use trickery to throw me off for his own, unimaginable purposes. Anything that, by reason, seems to make any sense at all, is completely and entirely arbitrary.
Okay.
…and?
It would seem then that ultimately, choosing heaven over hell is really arbitrary.
Of course, but once the truth is known, I would think denial would be utterly impossible. You could dislike the truth and possibly defy it, which would be foolish, because deep down, you would be unable deny it.
By that (a term I coined, mind you) I mean that it is a logical contradiction to say that God can create perfection (as demonstrated in the “God cannot create God” paradox). That said, the very best he can do is create something that is as close to perfect as logically possible, therefore infinitesimally imperfect.
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HardRockGTR
Guest
To be fair though, His invitation is incredibly cryptic and arbitrarily difficult to decipher. By that I do not refer to the Bible (if only solely), but to rationality, to seeking and discovering “the truth”, some people of which never have the thought cross their minds. It would be false and arrogant to say that “not having the thought cross one’s mind” is an intentional act and/or sin.
Some of my biggest problems are the following:
- Those who accept the invitation but arrive at the wrong address (idolatry and/or false belief/religion);1.5. Those who are invited to a false party that deceitfully offers better things (belief in religions or cults deliberately founded by people with ulterior motives, i.e. Raelism)
- Those who haven’t thought of checking their mail until or after the party itself (those who haven’t had a single existential problem* cross their mind);
- Those who wrongly believe they’ve accepted the invitation (those who honestly believe they’ve acted piously when they haven’t);
- Those who don’t realize how awesome this party actually is going to be and decline, thinking they’ll enjoy their choice better (those who haven’t realized that worrying about death or spirituality is a pressing issue, or, the foolish);
- Those who have lost the invitation, simply never found it, or despite all efforts to find affordable transportation, cannot get to the party (apostasy, non-belief, and reinforced non-belief, after* trying* to believe);
- Those who are socially awkward, shying away from the party (those who fear the unknown and distract or delude themselves, away from worry, because of said fear);
- The party is exclusivist and elitistic and is closed to anybody, including your best friends, who has a) not been invited or b) has not *yet *accepted the invitation (a: non-human animals; b: those who have already died);
- The only two possible options are a) a party, or b) torture (with no reasonable middle).
- By “problem”, I mean question, i.e. “a mathematical problem”, “a philosophical problem”, “the problem of evil”, etc.
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ffg
Guest
To save space, I cut out the list, (those reading backwards, keep going backwards)
With regard to your first point - "His invitation is incredibly cryptic and arbitrarily difficult to decipher. "
This is your opinion today. Opinions have the ability to change. Opinions change with increased understanding of a subject. I do not share in this opinion. This opinion could be listed in your list of problems.
Next point -" “Truth” and our desire (or lack thereof) to look for truth" -
Regardless of an actual or percieved clean or muddy delivery of the invitation(s), I agree, there are many people who do not consider the subject.
There is a lot going on in people’s lives whether they are the creator’s of their life’s ‘noise’ or are caught up in the world’s ‘noise’, in order to even have the desire to look for God, there must be a period of silence, God can’t fill an area that is already full. We must turn down the volume of the world. In that silence, is when we hear the text bell ring.
It’s like someone walking by the party on the sidewalk, ‘All are welcome’ is bannered above the house -
The host can either ignore the person or stop him and ASK him if he wants to join.
OR
The person can stop and find out what’s going on.
The end decision is still in the hands of the ignorant. There will be a day when all ignorant people are presented with the truth and consciously make a decision from there. Simply by the definition of love, this must be the case as God can’t force.
Next - searching for truth - “not having the thought “cross one’s mind” is an intentional act and/or sin” -
We can cut sin right out regarding searching for truth. A very good friend of mine has no intention to search for truth, I can guarantee you it doesn’t cross his mind. I’m sure he has his sins, but one not because he is not searching.
However, he is intentionally filling his life with stuff that doesn’t matter in the big picture. If God loves us, he must want us during all of our existance. The purpose of life must be much bigger than intentionally or not intentionally avoiding sin.
I have to cut this off, but with regard to your list now -
I see each one as an example of this point -
"Why might someone reject an invitation to a party? There are as many answers as pixels on the screen. "
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HardRockGTR
Guest
I wholly agree, which is one reason I still study theology and religion somewhat periodically (other than general interest). However, the reason my opinion will change is precisely because I try deciphering what I consider cryptic (reality, the truth, philosophy, etc.).
Also, it would seem, from my perspective anyway, that one cannot become more informed philosophically, but the opposite. The more I study, the more ignorant I feel.
That’s what Socrates said about knowledge: “The only thing I know is that I know nothing”.
Fair enough.
Also fair enough. However, some people have their lives taken before their time, such as teenagers or children who are killed in one way or another.
Also, my point 5 (specifically, reinforced non-belief, after trying to believe) applies here. I know someone who sought God by converting to Christianity in desperate hopes to alleviate his existential troubles, only to leave it, finding it unappealing morally and existentially (he remained an atheist for a short period of time before becoming a pantheist). The fact that his father actively hates Christianity and religious people in general doesn’t help, either.
I suppose. It seems though as your friend is either not intentionally filling his life with stuff that doesn’t matter (at least, not from his perspective), or is a #6 type, in which he is deluding himself on purpose because he secretly fears the unknown, as we all do.
The points I’ve listed aren’t intentional rejections however, and so, the “”“rejectors”"", I feel, should not be accounted culpable.
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fred_conty
Guest
What you said about not loving God because you saw no need, that is interesting to me.
Because when I realize the barbaric way in which the son of God, Jesus, died for me, I almost automatically responded with love and appreciation. I was even quite young at the time I learned this.
It may be that he does not need this love of mine or anyone else’s love, but having all that love in him for me and others just overwhelmed me. The terrible sufferings he just did out of pure love is heart breaking. And then to top it all off, he did this because he was driven by love to make it possible to embrace all of us forever in his wonderful home, and to be close to us, making us his family.
May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
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HardRockGTR
Guest
@Fred
Firstly, this was years ago. Today, I still feel like God (not just the Son in his human body) doesn’t “need” my love, but it’s a more ambiguous question to me now than it was back then. Back then, my skeptical mind was embryonic. Only recently has it grown into something more.
Secondly, I need to mention that I do admire Jesus for His sacrifice whether He is man or man-God, and am aware of how brutal His execution was, if not just to a degree. He did it out of love and overcame very real human fear and pain for all of humanity. Whether this story is true, metaphysically, is a different story. But someone who sacrifices their life for something great is, in my book, noble and worth admiration.
Thirdly, the major reason I didn’t feel love for God is primarily #2; I felt that an incomprehensible, unseen, mysterious entity, is impossible to actually “love”. You can’t hug God like you can your mother, son, brother, friend or wife. I’ve always been aware of of God having a distinct nature, but that only made Him more alienesque to me. I also haven’t always been a very emotional person, either. That came recently, if only just a year or two ago, but even today I feel like I couldn’t have much of an emotional attachment to God (if only also because semi-recent personal events have made me more cold and distant, emotionally, and cynical. Said events revolve around the same person who made me more emotional).
Perhaps I have too much of a “boss” view of such an entity. One that you do professional business with, that you must systematically obey, whom if you disagree with will sack you. I fear the unknown. That said, if I was a Christian, I would fear God, and be unable to love Him (not because of hate, certainly not, but because I’m too busy fearing Him); I would behave out of fear of God, out of love for other people. For some reason, I feel like if I follow the God of Abraham, He is going to send me a lot of hardships, because a big thing I tend to unconsciously associate to Christianity is that pleasure = bad, hardship = good. Do I really believe that a God that puts me through all this trouble will suddenly give me infinite pleasure and zero worries after death? I know it could be. But why is it that Christianity isn’t the most enticing religion I know of (although it is enticing in some respects)?
That said, the major reason I’m currently not a Christian is theological, and in a few cases, ethical. I’m trying to better understand the universe in order to accept, with a certain degree of faith, what I presume to be the truth (and in my book, atheists/materialists/naturalists have faith too).
All that said, it is late, and I typed this rather fast, so I might come back later and realize I said things I don’t normally think, so I’d take this post with a grain of salt. I do thank you, however, for your post, and the opportunity to vent a little
Firstly, this was years ago. Today, I still feel like God (not just the Son in his human body) doesn’t “need” my love, but it’s a more ambiguous question to me now than it was back then. Back then, my skeptical mind was embryonic. Only recently has it grown into something more.
Secondly, I need to mention that I do admire Jesus for His sacrifice whether He is man or man-God, and am aware of how brutal His execution was, if not just to a degree. He did it out of love and overcame very real human fear and pain for all of humanity. Whether this story is true, metaphysically, is a different story. But someone who sacrifices their life for something great is, in my book, noble and worth admiration.
Thirdly, the major reason I didn’t feel love for God is primarily #2; I felt that an incomprehensible, unseen, mysterious entity, is impossible to actually “love”. You can’t hug God like you can your mother, son, brother, friend or wife. I’ve always been aware of of God having a distinct nature, but that only made Him more alienesque to me. I also haven’t always been a very emotional person, either. That came recently, if only just a year or two ago, but even today I feel like I couldn’t have much of an emotional attachment to God (if only also because semi-recent personal events have made me more cold and distant, emotionally, and cynical. Said events revolve around the same person who made me more emotional).
Perhaps I have too much of a “boss” view of such an entity. One that you do professional business with, that you must systematically obey, whom if you disagree with will sack you. I fear the unknown. That said, if I was a Christian, I would fear God, and be unable to love Him (not because of hate, certainly not, but because I’m too busy fearing Him); I would behave out of fear of God, out of love for other people. For some reason, I feel like if I follow the God of Abraham, He is going to send me a lot of hardships, because a big thing I tend to unconsciously associate to Christianity is that pleasure = bad, hardship = good. Do I really believe that a God that puts me through all this trouble will suddenly give me infinite pleasure and zero worries after death? I know it could be. But why is it that Christianity isn’t the most enticing religion I know of (although it is enticing in some respects)?
That said, the major reason I’m currently not a Christian is theological, and in a few cases, ethical. I’m trying to better understand the universe in order to accept, with a certain degree of faith, what I presume to be the truth (and in my book, atheists/materialists/naturalists have faith too).
All that said, it is late, and I typed this rather fast, so I might come back later and realize I said things I don’t normally think, so I’d take this post with a grain of salt. I do thank you, however, for your post, and the opportunity to vent a little
- Status