I’m not read-up enough about predestination to argue it one way or another. I’ll be looking into some Catholic sources on the matter.Makes sense. Of course, some Protestants will argue that we exist because of “God’s Plan”, and that God predestines us either to heaven or hell for His own purposes.
We don’t know if they are or aren’t, and it’s a hotly-debated topic here and elsewhere. Personally speaking, I think there is a multitude of evidence, Biblical and otherwise, to show that God does indeed have a plan for ALL of his Creation, animals included. God doesn’t make throw-away junk.Why then are non-human animals refused admission to an afterlife like we are? This always has been a minor problem I’ve had with Christian cosmology.
I may, too…but regardless of what we might feel at some points in our lives, God does not create us to descend into despair, madness and pain. We are whole and unique and wonderful, whether we are married or not.Perhaps it’s because I’m the type who loves a person too much, but I probably would.
Same here.I say that and I’ve been single my entire life.
Well, keep searching. Keep looking. Just remember that your conscience can and should guide your search, no matter what emotions may or may not be present. We were given the wonderful faculty of will for a reason; it’s true freedom, to act in the knowledge that you are following objective Truth whether you are happy, sad or in between. That’s where hope lies, and what pulls us up out of ourselves, away from sadness and pain, into the light and healing of a higher Truth. Good stuff, I tells ya.If divine life is happiness, again, I would be utterly foolish to deny it. Yet I’m agnostic.
Of course, I’m not expecting you to entirely agree with Protestant theology, seeing as you are Catholic.I’m not read-up enough about predestination to argue it one way or another. I’ll be looking into some Catholic sources on the matter.
Really? I was always told that we are the only beings that are granted heaven or hell other than the angels, as we were made in the image of God and not animals (a rather bold assertion, if I say so myself).We don’t know if they are or aren’t, and it’s a hotly-debated topic here and elsewhere. Personally speaking, I think there is a multitude of evidence, Biblical and otherwise, to show that God does indeed have a plan for ALL of his Creation, animals included. God doesn’t make throw-away junk.
Of course. Though, if the wife I’ve loved more than anything else on Earth passed away, I would probably be unable to replace her. I wouldn’t care whether marriage exists in heaven or not; I’d feel like I’m betraying her by getting married again.I may, too…but regardless of what we might feel at some points in our lives, God does not create us to descend into despair, madness and pain. We are whole and unique and wonderful, whether we are married or not.
Thanks. I just hope that, if Christianity is true, God doesn’t hold me culpable if I sincerely and honestly find my way to the wrong address.Well, keep searching. Keep looking. Just remember that your conscience can and should guide your search, no matter what emotions may or may not be present. We were given the wonderful faculty of will for a reason; it’s true freedom, to act in the knowledge that you are following objective Truth whether you are happy, sad or in between. That’s where hope lies, and what pulls us up out of ourselves, away from sadness and pain, into the light and healing of a higher Truth. Good stuff, I tells ya.
Granted. I will say, though, that the reasons I don’t agree with Protestant theology is not because I’m Catholic, but because Protestant theology doesn’t stand up logically to close scrutiny (and sometimes not even close).Of course, I’m not expecting you to entirely agree with Protestant theology, seeing as you are Catholic.
Romans says:Really? I was always told that we are the only beings that are granted heaven or hell other than the angels, as we were made in the image of God and not animals (a rather bold assertion, if I say so myself).
Well, that’d be up to you to figure out one way or other, certainly. But either way, the possibility of a fulfilled and happy life is not destroyed by the death of one person, no matter how much we love them.Of course. Though, if the wife I’ve loved more than anything else on Earth passed away, I would probably be unable to replace her. I wouldn’t care whether marriage exists in heaven or not; I’d feel like I’m betraying her by getting married again.
Remember that your intellect, your will to know the truth, is what will see you through this time. Emotions and feelings are wonderful and tell us much about ourselves and the world around us, but they were never meant to be relied on.Thanks. I just hope that, if Christianity is true, God doesn’t hold me culpable if I sincerely and honestly find my way to the wrong address.
There’s something about being able to love a non-human as much as a person that makes animals, in some respect, intrinsically human. Same could be said about the animals themselves, who exhibit love. Wasn’t that a major point of Blade Runner, where the newer Replicant series were essentially human enough to be distinguished entirely from robots because of their innate nature?However, they are created by God, and whether they are or are not in Heaven, they are God’s gifts to us, and everything that delighted us about them came from God. I personally feel that I am to thank the Lord for the joy and fun I experienced with our dog Tabitha.
Although I am probably more familiar with Catholic theology, I can’t help but resort to Protestant thinking when it comes to free will and God’s omniscience. Molinism and Calvinism, for example (I like the first and dislike the second, but ultimately, the latter is both theologically and biblically supported).Granted. I will say, though, that the reasons I don’t agree with Protestant theology is not because I’m Catholic, but because Protestant theology doesn’t stand up logically to close scrutiny (and sometimes not even close).
I guess.Romans says:
18I consider that the sufferings of this present time are as nothing compared with the glory to be revealed for us.n 19For creation awaits with eager expectation the revelation of the children of God; 20for creation was made subject to futility, not of its own accord but because of the one who subjected it,o in hope 21that creation itself would be set free from slavery to corruption and share in the glorious freedom of the children of God.p 22We know that all creation is groaning in labor pains even until now;q 23and not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, we also groan within ourselves as we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies.
Sure sounds like it’s not just us that’s awaiting new things, eh?
Well I’m a celibate and currently don’t really have the urge or desire to change that, for various reasons, including the fact that I feel I couldn’t accept loss once again.Well, that’d be up to you to figure out one way or other, certainly. But either way, the possibility of a fulfilled and happy life is not destroyed by the death of one person, no matter how much we love them.
Of course, definitely not, and I am aware they can lead you into terrible situations. I approach religion, philosophy and theology entirely from an intellectual standpoint. Still, one’s to wonder what would happen if I wound up down the wrong path.Remember that your intellect, your will to know the truth, is what will see you through this time. Emotions and feelings are wonderful and tell us much about ourselves and the world around us, but they were never meant to be relied on.
I just wrote for the last hour+, putting thoughts together here and hit reply, error, poof. All gone. I’m a bit frustrated.I wholly agree, which is one reason I still study theology and religion somewhat periodically (other than general interest). However, the reason my opinion will change is precisely because I try deciphering what I consider cryptic (reality, the truth, philosophy, etc.).
Also, it would seem, from my perspective anyway, that one cannot become more informed philosophically, but the opposite. The more I study, the more ignorant I feel.
That’s what Socrates said about knowledge: “The only thing I know is that I know nothing”.
Fair enough.
Also fair enough. However, some people have their lives taken before their time, such as teenagers or children who are killed in one way or another.
Also, my point 5 (specifically, reinforced non-belief, after trying to believe) applies here. I know someone who sought God by converting to Christianity in desperate hopes to alleviate his existential troubles, only to leave it, finding it unappealing morally and existentially (he remained an atheist for a short period of time before becoming a pantheist). The fact that his father actively hates Christianity and religious people in general doesn’t help, either.
I suppose. It seems though as your friend is either not intentionally filling his life with stuff that doesn’t matter (at least, not from his perspective), or is a #6 type, in which he is deluding himself on purpose because he secretly fears the unknown, as we all do.
The points I’ve listed aren’t intentional rejections however, and so, the “”“rejectors”"", I feel, should not be accounted culpable.
How about a quick focus on ‘perspective’.Also, it would seem, from my perspective anyway, that one cannot become more informed philosophically, but the opposite. The more I study, the more ignorant I feel.
I suppose. It seems though as your friend is either not intentionally filling his life with stuff that doesn’t matter (at least, not from his perspective), or is a #6 type, in which he is deluding himself on purpose because he secretly fears the unknown, as we all do.
I disagree. The truth value to “the square root of 9” can either be 3 or -3, and both are equally correct. Truth doesn’t necessarily mean there is only one truth. In some cases, there is only one truth, such as in the case of “the square root of -1” having only one truth value: i. Another example would be “the square root of 0”, in which case the only correct answer is 0. However, it’s not to say all questions have only one truth associated to them.How about a quick focus on ‘perspective’.
Posts with ‘I think’ or ‘I feel’ splashed throughout tend to stick out to me.
Where do we come off that we think because ‘we think’, we know.
For some reason ‘I think’ trumps ‘is’.
There are as many perspective’s as people, but there is no way more than 1 on the same subject equate to true. As by definition, true is one.
I don’t know with complete certainty what ‘is’. I can only assume something is true. This is why I virtually never, under any circumstances, assert a claim without adding a certain haze to it, as I am aware I could be wrong about it.So we must set aside our ‘thinks’ and focus more on what ‘is’ (If it’s our desire to grow and know).
They are, but that doesn’t mean they should be punished for it. Rather, they need to learn from it.I just wrote for the last hour+, putting thoughts together here and hit reply, error, poof. All gone. I’m a bit frustrated.
Oh well, I’ll be short this time.
Intent and results are two very different things.
My kids spill milk constantly, never intentionally and occasionally without knowing the spill occured. Who is responsible?
Of course, but again, that doesn’t mean that a clueless child should be abandoned by his parents for spilling milk, let alone spilling it mistakenly or without knowledge of it being bad. Instead, the parents discipline the child for a harmless offense until he learns.If ‘intent’ can be used as an excuse to eliminate responsibility, then I would have a pretty stinky house.
Responsibility should be most clear when we do not intend. We don’t apologize for what we intend. We are most responsible for unintended results to our action (inaction). Being clueless to the results of our actions, does not excuse fault.
Certainly you could say whatever you want. Are you God? If no, then what you say has the ability to be an error. I don’t find this to be a new revelation for humans.For example, I could say all tree frogs are green, but that’s just because I’ve only ever seen green tree frogs. We might discover other species, and perhaps non-green tree frogs already exist, and that I just lack knowledge of them.
They are, but that doesn’t mean they should be punished for it. Rather, they need to learn from it.
A couple of items here. First regarding the term punished above and the implication that God is ‘punishing’ his creation by sending them to Hell. As I stated earlier, we can’t look at God for fault, so we must look at the those taking up residence in hell for why they are there. There is no ‘punished’ in the sense that God is doing something to His creation. The creation has to be the cause of the issue.Of course, but again, that doesn’t mean that a clueless child should be abandoned by his parents for spilling milk, let alone spilling it mistakenly or without knowledge of it being bad. Instead, the parents discipline the child for a harmless offense until he learns.
Hard rock, have you studied the concept of inclusivism?This is still a concept I am struggling with philosophically and theologically. Morality is a tricky concept, and because of it, I currently adhere to no religion. I can think of the Euthyphro dilemma (either: what is moral is such because God wills it (morality is arbitrary), or God wills it because it is moral (God is constrained by morality)) and its solution (God is moral, posited by William Lane Craig) and still feel unconvinced.
In Islam, abrogation is commonplace and accepted, because God is all-powerful and can do that sort of thing. God can turn black to white at will, and has, within the Qur’an (allegedly). Do I want to worship a false God or follow a false religion? If I worship Jesus and the Muslims happen to be right, I’m going to hell. If I follow the hadiths and the Christians happen to be right, I’m going to hell. This only covers half of the major Abrahamic religions (which include Judaism and Baha’i); there are plenty that are not part of that category such as Hinduism, Sikhism, paganism, Taoism, Buddhism, Jainism, as well as many others. That doesn’t even cover the various* branches* and denominations of these religions. Granted, my fear of hell makes my search for religion a bit egoistic, but nonetheless I still try my best to do it as selflessly as possible, by making morality the most important thing for me to abide to, even if my ethics rely entirely on gut feeling and rationality for the time being.
.