Motherhood and careers

[Shadow_of_Caravaggio]

[5/6]

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (2004):

It means also that women should be present in the world of work and in the organization of society, and that women should have access to positions of responsibility which allow them to inspire the policies of nations and to promote innovative solutions to economic and social problems.

In this regard, it cannot be forgotten that the interrelationship between these two activities – family and work – has, for women, characteristics different from those in the case of men. The harmonization of the organization of work and laws governing work with the demands stemming from the mission of women within the family is a challenge. The question is not only legal, economic and organizational; it is above all a question of mentality, culture, and respect. Indeed, a just valuing of the work of women within the family is required. In this way, women who freely desire will be able to devote the totality of their time to the work of the household without being stigmatized by society or penalized financially, while those who wish also to engage in other work may be able to do so with an appropriate work-schedule, and not have to choose between relinquishing their family life or enduring continual stress, with negative consequences for one’s own equilibrium and the harmony of the family. As John Paul II has written, “it will redound to the credit of society to make it possible for a mother – without inhibiting her freedom, without psychological or practical discrimination and without penalizing her as compared with other women – to devote herself to taking care of her children and educating them in accordance with their needs, which vary with age”.

And finally, the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church:

The feminine genius is needed in all expressions in the life of society, therefore the presence of women in the workplace must also be guaranteed . The first indispensable step in this direction is the concrete possibility of access to professional formation. The recognition and defence of women’s rights in the context of work generally depend on the organization of work, which must take into account the dignity and vocation of women , whose “true advancement … requires that labour should be structured in such a way that women do not have to pay for their advancement by abandoning what is specific to them”… This issue is the measure of the quality of society and its effective defence of women’s right to work.

 

[Jen7]

Let’s think about it this way:

1. Catholic teaching does not allow artificial BC. It is fairly likely that a Catholic married couple who follows this strictly will end up with a fairly large number of children.
2. If a mom has a large number of children, and is having to take time of for maternity leave every other year or so, not to mention probably trying to breastfeed an infant, it adds up to a lot of leaves / missed work time.
3. Probably the only moms who can make this work are ones who are making a pretty high salary like a doctor, lawyer, executive, etc. At some point moms who don’t make as much probably realize “hey, I’m being run ragged, daycare is taking away a huge chunk of the paycheck”, etc.
4. The question becomes “what is necessary financially?”. If you’re trying to pay Catholic school tuition, etc. that second paycheck starts to seem more essential!

My life!! And of course there’s no way we could afford Catholic school for everyone.

 

[Jen7]

a just valuing of the work of women within the family is required. In this way, women who freely desire will be able to devote the totality of their time to the work of the household without being stigmatized by society or penalized financially, while those who wish also to engage in other work may be able to do so with an appropriate work-schedule, and not have to choose between relinquishing their family life or enduring continual stress, with negative consequences for one’s own equilibrium and the harmony of the family.

Woah. Hooooold up. So if I shouldn’t have to stay home full time with my kids unless I feel like it?! Literally my husband, parents, in laws, and all of society owe me the opportunity to get a job if I want one?! This explodes my brain. So I should get to pop out babies & leave them with other people so I can work if I want?? Is that what this says? Time for a looooong talk with my husband. I figured it was my duty to care for the kids and no one owed me time off. Lol. This literally sounds like I’m OWED a job if I want one!

 

[Shadow_of_Caravaggio]

Well, as I mentioned, wives and mothers are not free to neglect their duties as wives as mothers. These responsibilities come first.

What that C.D.F. document is saying is that, ideally, society should structure itself so that women do not have to choose between being married & motherhood vs. working–if they want to work (the Church also protects and defends single-wage families, if the wife wishes to stay at home). In other words, governments, companies, and other institutions should have pro-family policies, so if a woman has to take time off (like maternity leave) she isn’t fired. That kind of thing.

With regards to your husband, part of the duties that come with being a wife is matrimonial obedience to your husband. So if your husband was dead-set against you working outside of the home, I don’t see how that would work. On the other hand, husbands have an obligation to love their wives, and if a wife truly thought she had something to offer the world via work outside the home–and there was a reasonable way in which she could still fulfill her wifely/motherly duties while taking on this work–I think, out of charity and love for his wife, he should be open to making that work for her. Obviously, both present an opportunity for failure: the wife failing to obey, and the husband failing to love.

I’m not a theologian (and moral theology is not my specialty at all), but that is how I would see that. The safest bet is to talk with a priest about these things. For my own writings, I would want to, again, place a strong emphasis on the idea that wives and mothers cannot abandon their duties as wives and mothers. How this will look will probably vary family by family, but this is not at all a license to shirk one’s responsibilities in these matters; in fact, that is very much condemned.

 

[Jen7]

What gets me is the emphasis on what the woman wants. I wasn’t aware that mattered. Truly. I signed up to be a wife and mom. I have a lot of kids and they’re all small. Since when does it matter what I want? More than a job I’d like to sleep all night without having to get up with a baby or change a diaper. But does that really matter? I signed up for this task. Same as a nun doesn’t get to leave the monastery to get a job if she has something to offer the world. Doesn’t anyone else feel there’s a problem here?? Also, once the wife has the job, can she postpone pregnancy if it’d interfere with the financially unnecessary job? Or is the job part of her VOCATION? It matters for those of us who believe we are to be open to pregnancy unless there is a grave reason.

 

[JMMJ]

When my husband and I got married, we planned on two kids. I let him know if he wanted a wife who was going to stay home with the kids and do all that entails, then I wasn’t the woman for him. Luckily for me, he had no problem with me having my career and working out the care for the kids and management of the household together, as partners.

As it turned out, he was much more naturally inclined towards spending time with the kids. Much more so than me. So he worked full-time and also was home taking care of the kids, because our work schedules were staggered and flexible and he was able to do it. He loved it and it enriched his life greatly, as he would tell you today (kids all grown up now). In turn, I was able to have 8-9 hours a day without kids needing me and I was much better off for it. Happy mom and dad, happy kids. I did a lot more of household management than my husband did. It is the way we decided to split the responsibilities and it worked great for us.

No two couples, or families are the same. We shouldn’t expect they all operate the same.

 

[Jen7]

I guess I’m not being clear. I’m not saying women shouldnt work. I’m saying I hear this from the Church:
Tired mom? Need a break? Society and your family members OWE YOU the chance to get a job so you can step away for awhile. You should only stay home full time if you want to. (Not, say, because it’s good for the kids. Or because you’re better at it than your husband. Or because no one else in your marriage or family feels like babysitting your kids for you because they’d rather work THEIR jobs…)

 

[Jen7]

As it turned out, he was much more naturally inclined towards spending time with the kids. Much more so than me. So he worked full-time and also was home taking care of the kids, because our work schedules were staggered and flexible and he was able to do it. He loved it and it enriched his life greatly, as he would tell you today (kids all grown up now). In turn, I was able to have 8-9 hours a day without kids needing me and I was much better off for it.

You’re very lucky. Not everyone knows someone who wants to give them a 9 hour break from parenting everyday. Or 1 hour. :woman_shrugging:t2

 

[JMMJ]

Well, you should only stay home if you want to. You always have choices and if you choose you would rather work outside of the home that should be an option, as long as you and your spouse are able to make it so it is a good thing for your family. I don’t think anyone owes anyone anything. But we owe it to ourselves to do our best to live happy and fulfilling lives. Just as I let my husband know, before we married, what that meant for me, many others find that same level of fulfillment and happiness in staying home with the kids and running the house. There are a lot of options. In my experience, none of them are easy, nor should we expect they will be. All parents work really hard, if they are doing it right. Raising children is the hardest job there is, IMO.

 

[JMMJ]

You’re very lucky. Not everyone knows someone who wants to give them a 9 hour break from parenting everyday. Or 1 hour. :woman_shrugging:t2

You’ve got that right! I like to think he got a pretty good bargain, too. No doubt about it, though, he is a gem. We both made it work.

 

[Jen7]

Well, you should only stay home if you want to.

And what should she do if there isn’t anyone else to watch her kids?

 

[27lw]

27lw:

Let’s think about it this way:

1. Catholic teaching does not allow artificial BC. It is fairly likely that a Catholic married couple who follows this strictly will end up with a fairly large number of children.
2. If a mom has a large number of children, and is having to take time of for maternity leave every other year or so, not to mention probably trying to breastfeed an infant, it adds up to a lot of leaves / missed work time.
3. Probably the only moms who can make this work are ones who are making a pretty high salary like a doctor, lawyer, executive, etc. At some point moms who don’t make as much probably realize “hey, I’m being run ragged, daycare is taking away a huge chunk of the paycheck”, etc.
4. The question becomes “what is necessary financially?”. If you’re trying to pay Catholic school tuition, etc. that second paycheck starts to seem more essential!

My life!! And of course there’s no way we could afford Catholic school for everyone.

Pretty much my life too, except I became Catholic at age 40. So, fewer children than if I had started married life Catholic, most probably!

 

[27lw]

When my husband and I got married, we planned on two kids. I let him know if he wanted a wife who was going to stay home with the kids and do all that entails, then I wasn’t the woman for him. Luckily for me, he had no problem with me having my career and working out the care for the kids and management of the household together, as partners.

As it turned out, he was much more naturally inclined towards spending time with the kids. Much more so than me. So he worked full-time and also was home taking care of the kids, because our work schedules were staggered and flexible and he was able to do it. He loved it and it enriched his life greatly, as he would tell you today (kids all grown up now). In turn, I was able to have 8-9 hours a day without kids needing me and I was much better off for it. Happy mom and dad, happy kids. I did a lot more of household management than my husband did. It is the way we decided to split the responsibilities and it worked great for us.

No two couples, or families are the same. We shouldn’t expect they all operate the same.

You! Not being Catholic, “only” having two kids.
Not in the same ballpark as a Catholic woman following all the rules of no ABC!

 

[JMMJ]

You cut off the rest of what I wrote…

as long as you and your spouse are able to make it so it is a good thing for your family.

 

[JMMJ]

True. Still a choice, though.

And even if we had more kids, we still would have worked it out so I worked outside the home. That was our agreement.

 

[Jen7]

I cut that part off because I don’t think the Church document was stipulating that. The document seems to put the burden on others & society to make it possible for the woman to get out of the home. I’m going to go find the document in it’s entirety and read it…

 

[Jen7]

wives and mothers cannot neglect their duties as wives and mothers, but if these needs are met, they are permitted to work and society should structure itself so that this option is made available to women if this is freely chosen and not chosen by societal or economic pressures.

So does this supersede the command to be open to new life unless there is grave reason as long as her current children have a care-option so that their needs are being met?

 

[jlc2k2]

It matters for those of us who believe we are to be open to pregnancy unless there is a grave reason.

You don’t have to be a SAHM for that to be the case.

 

[Jen7]

Some can; some can’t.

 

[jlc2k2]

So because some can’t, no one should?

Edited to add - so even if I can be MORE open to having more children when I work I shouldn’t because some women don’t have that option?