Mothers Day: Report from a Mormon ward (parish)

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Eden said:
I have no patience for fake prophets like Joseph Smith. If you would like to label that “hostility”, so be it.

So, who was the last legitimate successor to Peter before the “apostasy”? Was he there at the “visitation”, too?

Here’s the List of Popes again:

newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm
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I’m not aware of any. John stayed around for awhile, but he was not a successor.
 
RebeccaJ said:
God would not say to a man and woman who were unknowledgeable or uncapable of having sexual intercourse to be fruitful and multiply. Not without them going, huh?
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I believe this blessing, according to Jewish thought, was directed toward Adam only and not Eve
While in the Garden, the state of their being was without sorrow and pain. God explained to Eve what had CHANGED because of her sinful actions.
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This is an interesting question, it has come up in our Gospel Doctrine class with some taking your position, and some taking the position I hold. This type of discussion makes us dig into the scripture to examine them more closely. I have accepted the idea that they may have been able physically to have children, but as being innocencent in their knowledge they may not have known of this capability. We are not offered any information as to what may have happen if they remained in the garden, to offer any opinion about this is to speculate, which we both do to in coming to our differing opinions. I feel it is prudent to take all the information that is given in creating a theory around this event. I don’t have any particular militancy toward your position, however I will go with what, I believe, the facts suggest.
God did not stop Eve because He gave us the gift of free will. I know that Mormons understand this, did you forget?
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I agee they had free will.
It is much easier to account for than devising plans. It is all explained, very clearly and very well. The Garden was a place where God dwelled meaning it was indeed a very holy and perfect place as God does not dwell where there is sin.

Adam and Eve sinned, and thus could no longer be in the presence of God. It was indeed a sad day. God’s perfect, holy, creation was twisted to something He did not will it to be.
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Do you think that God knew what thy would do with their free will. Our little children have free will too, and we know as parents that left to their own devices will put themselves in mortal danger. We tell them do not touch this or go there, but you know that will be the first place they go. That is why we put things above reach, and lock the cabinets. If God’s will was to have them stay in the garden why did he allow Eve to proceed without some additional warning intervention?
God did not give conflicting commands. He gave them their conditions for living in His presence, and told them how to be blessed themselves. Join together as one, be fruitful, and multiply. And of all the most wonderful creations in a newly created world, He only forbade them one thing. Just one.
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I agree the command was very clear “do not, but if you do, you die”. In light of your comment, why didn’t He also tell them not to eat of the tree of life as well, since He protected that one with fire and an angle?
It was a choice freely made. Not planned by God or desired by His Will.
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Yes they freely choose, you say “not planned”, I would say allowed, since He knew what they would do before they did it. He didn’t have to plan what happened, but I do believe He did set the stage for the events to play out. That is how God works in all our lives, He sets our stage and our actions dictate our progress.

Paul
 
why_me said:
Were early popes power hungry? I think so.
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:whacky: And why do you think this? The early popes were considered criminals in the Roman Empire and many of them - probably most - died horrible martyr’s deaths. The Church in the time of the early popes was small, poor and fugitive. It was many, many years before the Church became enough of a force for the clergy to have any real power.
 
majick275 said:
JS wasn’t power hungry? you need to read your church history. what about BY? even more so than JS. the “visitation” is only attested to be JS. we have no rationale for the church personally established by jesus to fail and leave the earth without any sacramental grace for 1800 years. so i think the identity of power hungry people pretending to be christs representative is pretty obviously JS and his successors.
maybe you should go to the RfM board and try preaching to the “apostates”. who knows they might buy it.
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Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood.” (D&C 135:3.)
 
Catholic_Dude said:
Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood.” (D&C 135:3.)
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Amen!!!
 
Prince_Hal said:
I attended my wife’s Mormon ward (parish) on Mothers Day.
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Hal, are you Catholic?

Correct me if I’m wrong, please, because I don’t know so much, but I thought it was
prohibited for Catholics to attend religious services not of the Catholic faith.
 
crenfro said:
Hal, are you Catholic?

Correct me if I’m wrong, please, because I don’t know so much, but I thought it was
prohibited for Catholics to attend religious services not of the Catholic faith.
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We don’t take their sacraments because their sacraments having no meaning for us. The sacraments of other faiths lack authority since they are not properly consecrated and do not include the Real Presence in most cases, so they are nothing more than bread and some kind of liquid in a symbolic ritual.
 
why_me said:
Were early popes power hungry? I think so. Human beings are human beings. I don’t think that JS was power hungry but he was dealing with a difficult situation. And he certainly wasn’t perfect and neither was BY. But as a human beings I am sure that his imperfections came out. It is only natural. JS was murdered for what he believed to be right just as the early apostles were murdered after the death of Chirst.
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Just more “Mormons gooood Catholics baaad” from the google catholic.
 
hosemonkey said:
Don’t get too excited, I am sure that Catholic Dude was just joking. :cool:
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Actually i wasnt joking. That was a quote from the LDS Scriptures in response (proof) of the claim that Joseph Smith raised himself to a Super Apostle who was literally the Savior of the world second only to Jesus Himself, far above the original Apostles who failed miserably and who lost the Church and Gospel for 1800 years.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
Actually i wasnt joking. That was a quote from the LDS Scriptures in response (proof) of the claim that Joseph Smith raised himself to a Super Apostle who was literally the Savior of the world second only to Jesus Himself, far above the original Apostles who failed miserably and who lost the Church and Gospel for 1800 years.
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If you want to see a real gem, here’s the Joseph Smith nativity scene that they had in the BYU admin building at Christmas a couple of years ago:

photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6025/1362/400/Joseph%20Smith%20nativity1.jpg
 
Catholic_Dude said:
Actually i wasnt joking. That was a quote from the LDS Scriptures in response (proof) of the claim that Joseph Smith raised himself to a Super Apostle who was literally the Savior of the world second only to Jesus Himself, far above the original Apostles who failed miserably and who lost the Church and Gospel for 1800 years.
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I figured that it was something like that. I have seen references and have actually heard mormons declare that in order to enter heaven, you must have the endorsement of Joseph Smith. I guess Joe Smith’s desk is ahead of St. Peter’s. I believe that mormons have placed Joseph Smith above Jesus Christ Himself. That is pagan idolatry and blasphemy. Joseph Smith was a con artist who was unfortunately killed in the act of returning fire on a crowd. I say unfortunately because if they had not killed him, mormonism would likely have faded into obscurity. That crowd provided Brigham Young with the “martyr” that he needed to impose his will on the gullible mormon faithful. There is absolutely NO comparison between the flawed mortal Joseph Smith and the divine Jesus Christ, no matter how fervently the mormons try.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
Actually i wasnt joking. That was a quote from the LDS Scriptures in response (proof) of the claim that Joseph Smith raised himself to a Super Apostle who was literally the Savior of the world second only to Jesus Himself, far above the original Apostles who failed miserably and who lost the Church and Gospel for 1800 years.
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But there was no thirst for power, right? That’s something that only affects Popes? :rolleyes: 🤷
 
RC_Matt said:
If you want to see a real gem, here’s the Joseph Smith nativity scene that they had in the BYU admin building at Christmas a couple of years ago:

photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6025/1362/400/Joseph%20Smith%20nativity1.jpg
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Just to be fair, calling it a “nativity” isn’t really accurate. It was in celebration of Joseph Smith’s 200th birthday, which was December 23rd.

Although I find that this is truly a horrible picture with many undertones of what it is that mormons really believe, I wouldn’t call it a “nativity”.

My Dad died on December 23rd in 1977. At his funeral it was made a big deal by the bishop that presided that Dad had died on Joseph’s birthday. I was just a kid, but I felt it was horrible form.

in Christ
Steph
 
teancum79 said:
folks trying to understand LDS teachigns using only catholic understanding of the Bible is like a Jewish person using only the OT to understand Christianity.

Without the information in the other scriptures a whole lot of stuff won’t make sense.
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I don’t see your logic? The Catholic Church’s roots are Jewish. The Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament and the New Testament is concealed in the Old. That’s why a Catholic could use just the New Testament to understand the Jewish faith and vice versa. IMHO
Code: 
             Old----------------------------------------------- New

    Adam and Eve-----------------------------------Jesus and Mary

          Circumcision  ----------------------------------Baptism

Sacrificing of the Lamb ------------------------Crucifixion of Jesus

   Passover  Meal-------------------------------------Eucharist

 Ark of the Covenant-----------------------------------Mary

 Twelve Tribes of Israel-------------------------Twelve Apostles

         Moses-------------------------------------------Jesus
Think of it like a mirror between the two Covenants.Theres alot more.
 
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