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teancum79
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Never not even once. What happened to “All have sinned”? Where in the scriptures does it tell us that Mary never sinned ?
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MelanieAnne
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In the Gospel she is confirmed as “FULL of Grace”. This is God’s Grace that is being described. It’s not that Mary, as a human being, merited this distinction. She was born that way, and was born that way because of God’s Grace. If you think about it, it makes sense. God created Mary as a Holy vessel for the birth of Jesus. When you remember Jesus is God, it makes perfect sense. When you try to make Jesus into something less, it doesn’t.
One of the things I like about the Catholic church is that it all makes sense, as a unified whole.
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Eden
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Misunderstanding about Romans 3:23 (“All have sinned”) here in IX:
scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html#the_bvm-IX
And also, as stated above, the Blessed Virgin was “kecharitomene” (which is translated from the Greek into English as “full of grace”). This is a unique title given to Mary, and suggests a perfection of grace from a past event. Mary is not just “highly favored.” She has been perfected in grace by God. **"Kecharitomene, **“full of grace” is only used to describe one other person - Jesus Christ in John 1:14. How can one be “full of grace” and yet have room left over for sin? One is either **full **of grace or not. There is no in between.
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Catholic_Dude
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Considering LDS deny the concept of Original Sin, the idea that a person could live a sinless life should not raise too many eyebrows on your side.
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MelanieAnne
Guest
After studying this and many issues for a very long time, I have come to believe that many Mormon misunderstandings stem from the Mormon understanding of the Trinity (yes, I’ve heard them say that word, but not with the same belief/understanding of the term as Christians). The understanding of the very nature of God is different, hence a myriad of other concepts are either missing or different.
Mary’s status is one of many things where you need to get the first part right first before you can proceed.
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RebeccaJ
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Original sin is something all are born with, it is what stains our souls because of the first sin of Adam and Eve. Original sin is easy to prove. Just look around the world, we’re prone to sin, in every way possible.
A child is born with original sin, but a child does not commit sin. Neither does a mentally disabled person, or a severely mentall ill person. Yet all of these people are born with the stain of original sin, thus, “all have sinned”.
God gifted to Mary a privelege, a fullness of grace, a lack of original sin and no ability to commit sin.
As for the Bible, the Bible is Catholic, and so is Sacred Tradition. The dogma of Immacualte Conception is largely based on Tradition. Patristic writings from the East and West speak of the sinlessness of Mary, sometimes calling it “original grace”. Which is a term that clearly speaks to the opposite of “original sin”.
Also, it is reasonable to believe that the person who the Redeemer of the world grew in and was birthed from was never under the power or influence of Satan. Especially when the mission of Christ is taken into account, the reason for His Sacrifice.
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rmcmullan
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The scripture is from 2 Nephi 2:22
Since you are the Catholic Dude and do not consider the Book of Mormon as authoratative, I don’t know how much evidence this would be for you. However, from a practical point of view if the garden of Eden and all the creatures in it are eternal and never die and they are mulitplying, well, soon you’d run out of space. Not much of a proof to a Catholic Dude but something to consider.
Also, although there’s no indication of how long Adams and Eve were in the garden before they partook of the fruit, you’ll notice that there’s no record of them having children until after the fall. In fact, the following scripture from Genesis suggests that this was something new for Eve, the ability to bear children:
just as it was a new thing for Adam to have to labor for his daily bread.
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why_me
Guest
I don’t want to bust anyone’s balloon here but a talk in an LDS church is just a talk. Nothing more. Each sunday, two or three member are chosen to give talks. They can accept or refuse before hand. But usually a person has two to three weeks to prepare. No one checks over the talk. And so, at any given time there are average members giving talks about subjects that they themselves have chosen or were given to them by the bishopric. In this case, I am sure that the speakers were told to speak about Mother’s Day.
Whether Eve is greater than mary is not exactly mormon doctrine. But it can be the opinion of the speaker. No big deal really.
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why_me
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The lds concept of the garden of eden does make some sense. I remember as a young catholic boy understanding the garden as a place of bliss and careless wonder. Certainly not a place of work and having babies. The garden was basically a heaven on earth. And both adam and eve were without sin until the apple part came into play.
I just can not imagine adam and eve doing anything sexual before the fall. Sorry.
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Sam_777
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I totally agree, I personally think they would have just said a word to bare a child, a similar concept to Jesus birth.
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why_me
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Also, the ward that my dauthers attend gave a flower to all the women who were at the sacrament meeting on mother’s day. It did not matter if the women were married or single or even had children…all got a flower. At the catholic mass that I attended the women who attended the mass got nothing for mothers day. 
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MelanieAnne
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We all got long stemmed Roses. It’s a parish-by-parish thing I believe.Also, the ward that my dauthers attend gave a flower to all the women who were at the sacrament meeting on mother’s day. It did not matter if the women were married or single or even had children…all got a flower. At the catholic mass that I attended the women who attended the mass got nothing for mothers day.
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oneGODoneCHURCH
Guest
My parish gave book marks with a scripture verse on them to all the mothers. it is a parish by parish thing.Also, the ward that my dauthers attend gave a flower to all the women who were at the sacrament meeting on mother’s day. It did not matter if the women were married or single or even had children…all got a flower. At the catholic mass that I attended the women who attended the mass got nothing for mothers day.
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MelanieAnne
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I’m not sure how important it is for the church to give gifts to Mothers on Mothers day. It’s a commercial holiday and the responsibility of the family, if anyone. If a parish chooses not to give flowers or some other token, or if the parish cannot afford it, what’s the big deal? It’s not our place to disparage anyone or any organization for failing to give a gift. 
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teancum79
Guest
Frankly it makes no sense what so ever, but its one of many.
thanks for the response though.
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ibkc
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Why not? Sex between man and wife is not a sinful thing. It is a beautiful thing. The idea that sinfulness had to exist for people to have the ability to make children is an extremely bizarre one to me. It’s just yet another Mormon belief that makes me feel bad and wrong, like I am reading the worst kind of blasphemy.I just can not imagine adam and eve doing anything sexual before the fall. Sorry.
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teancum79
Guest
wither or not Adam and Eve had a sexual relationship before the fall is pointless. If you can’t have children you can’t have children.
Lehi explained it about as clear as I can find.
2 Nephi 2:
22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.
23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.
25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.
26 And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall. And because that they are redeemed from the fall they have become free forever, knowing good from evil; to act for themselves and not to be acted upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day, according to the commandments which God hath given.
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MelanieAnne
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You don’t think it makes sense that God would create a Holy place for Jesus to be incarnated? Why not? Perhaps you don’t believe Jesus is God after all? Not really?
Every place inhabited by God is a Holy place. For the incarnation to take place, Mary’s womb also had to be a Holy place. It makes total sense that God would bestow this special Grace upon Mary. It’s in the Bible if you have the wisdom to discern it.
What makes no sense at all is the alternative, that God would inhabit a sinful place. That’s essentially what you’re left with if you don’t consider Mary full of God’s Grace.
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Catholic_Dude
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This is very true. Their understanding of God, along with the attributes of “almighty”, “eternal”, “one”, etc are understood VERY differently by LDS.
The problem that the LDS and a great extent of Protestantism is they lack a solid Theological foundation to work off of, and as a result the structures built off of their foundations are very crooked from the Catholic perspective.
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teancum79
Guest
Its an interesting line of reasoning, but utterly unsupported by scripture. Mary was a good righteous women a normal everyday person in all other respects who was selected to be the mother of Christ. Christ went to many places that where not overly holy. so your inhabited by God= special holy thing does not fit what we know.
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