Mothers Day: Report from a Mormon ward (parish)

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Mormons do not reject the bible at all. In fact, they studied it rather closely. All last year, the mormons were studying the new statement (King James Version). I do believe that mormons spend more time studying the bible than catholics who seem to only get the bible verses at Mass. The catholic church has no sunday school.
I would point out that reading the Bible does not translate into understanding the Bible properly.

A person lost in the wood who has a map but doesnt know where north is can study that map for 100 hours and still find them self lost. A person lost in the woods with a compass and map could study the map for 1 hour and come out far ahead.

The point is the number of hours spent, the number of Bible studies you attend, whether there is a Sunday school, etc DO NOT guarantee OR prove you are on the right track.
 
My parish has Religious Education for adults every Sunday morning, four different Bible study classes for adults during the week, and Religious Education for children and teenagers on Sunday AND Wednesday. The only truth to your statement is that we don’t call it “Sunday school.”
I am currently taking an Adult Religious Education course as well. This one is during the week. What is better about it compared to Mormon Sunday school is that Mormons Sunday school teaches the same thing, over and over and over and over and over. It is very boring.
 
Whether Eve was a saint or a sinner also reflects upon the nature of God. Are we to believe that God deliberately put Eve into a position where she would have to disobey Him, and thereby receive punishment ? That is one incredibly odd sounding God to me.

God bless,

Hal.
Why did God create the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden at all? Why did He allow the devil to tempt them to partake of it?

zerinus
 
Why did God create the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden at all? Why did He allow the devil to tempt them to partake of it?

zerinus
The best answer is that God gave them Free Will and He was testing their fidelity to Him.

To say anything else means God wanted the Fall to occur and was in fact the author of sin.
 
In the Gospel she is confirmed as “FULL of Grace”. This is God’s Grace that is being described. It’s not that Mary, as a human being, merited this distinction. She was born that way, and was born that way because of God’s Grace. If you think about it, it makes sense. God created Mary as a Holy vessel for the birth of Jesus. When you remember Jesus is God, it makes perfect sense. When you try to make Jesus into something less, it doesn’t.

One of the things I like about the Catholic church is that it all makes sense, as a unified whole.
Not that again. I thought we have already been through all of that:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3564695&postcount=441
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3565258&postcount=452
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3565395&postcount=459
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3566032&postcount=468

Or do you just like to close your eyes to the truth, and bury your head in the sand?

zerinus
 
Why did God create the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden at all? Why did He allow the devil to tempt them to partake of it?

zerinus
Zenirus, you old snake, you’ve been lurking haven’t you? Why havn’t you come sooner to bail out your henchmen mcmullen and why me? Once again they do not seem to know which flag to run up. One minute they are TBMs and the next they are (shudder) Catholics! If the old men in SLC get wind of this, you are going to be in real trouble. You are supposed to be policing your soldiers here. Shape up or ship out!👍
 
I’m not the one closing my eyes to the truth or burying my head in the sand.

I have no need to read your links, I know all I need to know from you. I’ve studied all I need to study, and that has been plenty, about Mormonism and I have rejected it. Mormonism is false.

The fact that Mormons do not understand the words of the Bible, when they choose to read it, doesn’t change the status or nature of the Mother of God. No number of links will affect the outcome.
 
You’ve got one guy who told a preposterous story vs. literally an army of others who told a different one. In the end, if one is hearsay, the other is hearsay too, if you’re calling what someone says “hearsay”. But the words of the Gospel writers are not “hearsay” they’re eyewitness testimony. The testimony of 100’s (if you count all those trained directly by the Apostles) has more evidentiary value over the testimony of one.

But then you don’t know the testimony of those 100’s of early Christians. Mormons neatly cut themselves off from the truth by calling everyone other than themselves “apostate”. Very handy if you want to start a new religion to denigrate all that which came before. That’s what Mohammed did too. Didn’t work for him either.
Matt. 7: 14
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Christ also called many of the other religious leaders on their errors.
 
I’m not the one closing my eyes to the truth or burying my head in the sand.

I have no need to read your links, I know all I need to know from you. I’ve studied all I need to study, and that has been plenty, about Mormonism and I have rejected it. Mormonism is false.

The fact that Mormons do not understand the words of the Bible, when they choose to read it, doesn’t change the status or nature of the Mother of God. No number of links will affect the outcome.
2 ne 28
29 Wo be unto him that shall say: We have received the word of God, and we need no more of the word of God, for we have enough!
30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.
 
2 ne 28
29 Wo be unto him that shall say: We have received the word of God, and we need no more of the word of God, for we have enough!
30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.
how convenient that JS gives us a book that says we need him…

The Bible described mormons quite nicely:
*
2 Peter 2
False Teachers and Their Destruction
1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment. 10This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority.

Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; 11yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. 12But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.

13They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. 14With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—a beast without speech—who spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.

17These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. 20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”*

that’s abouthte best description of Joseph smith and Brigham young and the church they built that i have ever seen.
 
how convenient that JS gives us a book that says we need him…

The Bible described mormons quite nicely:
*
2 Peter 2
False Teachers and Their Destruction
1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment. 10This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority.

Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; 11yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. 12But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.

13They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. 14With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—a beast without speech—who spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.

17These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. 20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”*

that’s abouthte best description of Joseph smith and Brigham young and the church they built that i have ever seen.
That was a descriptions of the apostates; and it applies to Mormon apostates spot on.

zerinus
 
Matt. 7: 14
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Christ also called many of the other religious leaders on their errors.
And that’s on point because of what exactly?
 
That was a descriptions of the apostates; and it applies to Mormon apostates spot on.

zerinus
then you haven’t read it. the “secret” teachings, the adultery disguised as celestial marriage, god was once a man, angels are just people, global apostasy for 1800 years, no sacramental grace in the world, jesus church had to be “restored” by joseph smith…it’s all there to see. heresy of every type. good luck with the circular reasoning and cognitive dissonance though.
 
The lds concept of the garden of eden does make some sense. I remember as a young catholic boy understanding the garden as a place of bliss and careless wonder. Certainly not a place of work and having babies. The garden was basically a heaven on earth. And both adam and eve were without sin until the apple part came into play.

I just can not imagine adam and eve doing anything sexual before the fall. Sorry. 🙂
Well, perhaps it’s time to start reading that book called the Bible instead of using one’s imagination.😊

Try Gen. 1:27-28 **Especially verse 28 - God blessed them, saying: "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it. **God was specifically talking to Adam and Eve here whom he had just created.

Sounds like childbearing and work to me! 🤷 And all this before that senario with the devil in the form of a snake.

On to the punishment for the fall, it was not about finally being able to reproduce…Gen. 3:16…God promised there would be great PAIN in childbirth. Nowhere does it ever say that they were incapable of having children.

It seems to me that the Mormon faith has fallen for the same lie that Eve did: Gen. 3:4, …God knows well that the moment you eat of it (the fruit) your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods…

Sad. 😦

Lisa
 
Also, the ward that my dauthers attend gave a flower to all the women who were at the sacrament meeting on mother’s day. It did not matter if the women were married or single or even had children…all got a flower. At the catholic mass that I attended the women who attended the mass got nothing for mothers day. 😦
Everyone at the Catholic parish received the Body and Blood of our Lord and Savior! Much better than flowers! 😃

Lisa
 
wither or not Adam and Eve had a sexual relationship before the fall is pointless. If you can’t have children you can’t have children.
Lehi explained it about as clear as I can find.
2 Nephi 2:
22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.
23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.
25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.
26 And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall. And because that they are redeemed from the fall they have become free forever, knowing good from evil; to act for themselves and not to be acted upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day, according to the commandments which God hath given.
Not scripture…irrelevant. 🤷
Lisa
 
Mormons do not reject the bible at all. In fact, they studied it rather closely. All last year, the mormons were studying the new statement (King James Version). I do believe that mormons spend more time studying the bible than catholics who seem to only get the bible verses at Mass. The catholic church has no sunday school.
Wrong-a-rooney! 😃 I teach ‘Catholic Sunday School!’ Not to mention my 4th graders get it every day in school.

And obviously you slept through Mass; there’s a lot more than just a verse or two being read at Mass…that’s a protestant thing.

As for Mormons studying the Bible…time well spent.

Lisa
 
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