Mourning and Weeping In This Valley of Tears (Abortion Issue and Other Social Ills)

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If I might be so bold as to make a suggestion that some posters re-read the original post and maybe we don’t get too off topic debating abortion on this thread? :o This thread’s purpose is to help people who are heartbroken that abortion occurs, and to stimulate thought on how we might be a positive force in the struggle. Straightforward debate about abortion IMO should be a new thread. Thanks!
 
Kay_Cee said:
The real question is: What are we going to do about it?

I submit that Peter Kreeft has the answer in his book How to Win the Culture War. amazon.com/How-Win-Culture-War-Christian/dp/0830823166/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1353338741&sr=1-1&keywords=kreeft+how+to+win+the+culture+war

If you want his short answer, it’s this: Be a Saint.
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Absolutely!

One poster said, “A culture of death doesn’t exist outside of the perceptions of pro-life groups.” This is absolutely false…if we are living in the fullness of life, experiencing this world in the manner God intended…seeing the goodness and beauty and wonder of it all - how much more will we be mourning and weeping over the sin that prevents life or any human soul from the totality of this experience. The saints were cognizant of life in extraordinary ways - the common could become holy means of sanctification and everything in the world gave credence to the majesty of God. They were so much more aware of everything around them. Likewise, for those of us whose hearts are broken and can recognize the satanic nature of abortion, we should let our tears be a salve and our distress a suffering gladly borne and offered up for this most heinous of sins.
 
I agree. It makes one very depressed. However, the enemy better know who they wanna tango with, Cause I got my ammo. Its the enemy who better pick the fight wisely. I am part of the Church Militant. The Government, Atheists, the Culture of Death, Homosexuals etc will NOT scare me into submission. If anything, it would be vice versa.
 
Tigg said:
Absolutely!

One poster said, “A culture of death doesn’t exist outside of the perceptions of pro-life groups.” This is absolutely false…if we are living in the fullness of life, experiencing this world in the manner God intended…seeing the goodness and beauty and wonder of it all - how much more will we be mourning and weeping over the sin that prevents life or any human soul from the totality of this experience. The saints were cognizant of life in extraordinary ways - the common could become holy means of sanctification and everything in the world gave credence to the majesty of God. They were so much more aware of everything around them. Likewise, for those of us whose hearts are broken and can recognize the satanic nature of abortion, we should let our tears be a salve and our distress a suffering gladly borne and offered up for this most heinous of sins.
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:newidea::tiphat::curtsey::clapping:
 
Here in Ireland, the ideological and moral war of abortion has been re-opened in recent weeks.

The proponents of the culture of death want to try to extend the option whereby abortion would be on demand.

Currently this country’s legislation states that only where a doctor is faced with a choice, and only where there is a direct threat to the life of the mother, can a doctor be allowed to save the woman life at the expense of the baby’s life.
Otherwise the doctor is obliged to save the life of the mother and the baby.

The proponents of the culture of death want Ireland to liberalise her laws to allow abortion.
 
I know. So sad to hear. 😦 Praying for your country; it has held out for a long time, would that it could withstand this challenge to and stand for what’s right.
 
yunat said:
Many people aren’t influenced by a culture of death, but rather a question of choice.

If a woman doesn’t want to carry a foetus to term, then she should have the choice of receiving a medically safe means of aborting the foetus, as opposed to a dangerous back alley abortion.

A culture death doesn’t exist outside of the perceptions of pro-life groups.

Abortion isn’t murder, as murder is a very specific legal term that has no application in the debate concerning abortion. Calling abortion murder, is simply hijacking a legal definition and using it to further a cause with strong, emotional and provocative language.

I don’t love abortion, but it is a choice women should have the right to make…safely.
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With all due respect, your position is unreasonable. Why? First it reduces morality to the level of relativism, all morality is relative to personal whim. All barriers are gone. If the unborn child is not secure in his rights as a human being, then he will not be secure in his rights as a human being outside the womb either. This relavitism is coming true today in America and has been true in Europe for decades now. Right now people can opt physician assisted suicide in Oregon and Washington and Montana may be next. Suicide is either legal or tolerated in most of Europe.

The real problem with all of this is that it accustoms governments and people to the notion that is O.K. to take a human life under certain circumstances. But this is very dangerous. You are aware how this worked out in Germany and Russia in WW2, the tens of millions slaughtered by Mao TseDong Dung, the killing fields of Cambodia. There are some countries even now engaging in genocide. How long will it be before States begin to kill their political opponents as a universal solution to staying in power or purifying the race?

You see the illogic of your position. It leads to carte blanche to destroy any life the State deems inconvenient. And of course, as with abortion, it requires a great deal of corruption of the general populace, because these things cannot be done without a great deal of public approbation.

Such policies as I have been describing lead to a general moral relativism throughout the moral landscape. Morality eventually becomes nothing but what the State can enforce at the point of a gun. Don’t you see how dangerous your views are? 🤷
 
yunat said:
Many people aren’t influenced by a culture of death, but rather a question of choice.

If a woman doesn’t want to carry a foetus to term, then she should have the choice of receiving a medically safe means of aborting the foetus, as opposed to a dangerous back alley abortion.

A culture death doesn’t exist outside of the perceptions of pro-life groups.

Abortion isn’t murder, as murder is a very specific legal term that has no application in the debate concerning abortion. Calling abortion murder, is simply hijacking a legal definition and using it to further a cause with strong, emotional and provocative language.

I don’t love abortion, but it is a choice women should have the right to make…safely.
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Then why are people charged with double murder when they kill a pregnant woman?
 
3DOCTORS said:
If I might be so bold as to make a suggestion that some posters re-read the original post and maybe we don’t get too off topic debating abortion on this thread? :o This thread’s purpose is to help people who are heartbroken that abortion occurs, and to stimulate thought on how we might be a positive force in the struggle. Straightforward debate about abortion IMO should be a new thread. Thanks!
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Once again . . . :o
 
yunat said:
I wouldn’t exist and therefore, I wouldn’t know any different.
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This applies to any murder. Once the person is dead, they “wouldn’t know any different.” So is it therefore right to kill anyone?
 
yunat said:
Many people aren’t influenced by a culture of death, but rather a question of choice.

If a woman doesn’t want to carry a foetus to term, then she should have the choice of receiving a medically safe means of aborting the foetus, as opposed to a dangerous back alley abortion.

A culture death doesn’t exist outside of the perceptions of pro-life groups.

Abortion isn’t murder, as murder is a very specific legal term that has no application in the debate concerning abortion. Calling abortion murder, is simply hijacking a legal definition and using it to further a cause with strong, emotional and provocative language.
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Murder is the intentional killing of another human being without just cause. Abortion is the intentional killing of another human being without just cause. How is calling abortion, murder, a hijacking of the term? It is a consistent application of the term. Denying it is murder is applying the term inconsistently by finding rationalizations to deny human rights to a being that is just as human as any other because every human being started out as a fetus in its mother’s womb.

It is interesting to note that Prince William and Kate are about to announce that Kate is pregnant with their first child. Can you imagine the hue and cry that would come about if Kate (God forbid) decided that she wasn’t ready and has chosen instead to abort this child? Try to wrap your head around that possibility and the dissonance it would cause in our modern secular culture!

Yet, why is this child any more deserving of special treatment than the millions of others that are killed through abortion each year?
yunat said:
I don’t love abortion, but it is a choice women should have the right to make…safely.
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I am not clear why anyone should be granted the right of choice to kill another human being. It is not considered legal or moral in any other circumstance that one person’s welfare or preference is given priority over another human being’s very right to exist. The right to life has always, in ethically sound societies, been seen as the highest and most fundamental of all rights. It is only in our distorted modern culture that one person’s rights to wealth, comfort and pleasure are now counted above another’s right to life itself. Sheer delusion.
 
Clearly god was pro choice according to the christian bible

God will punish women by aborting their fetus through a miscarriage.

“Give them, O LORD–what will You give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.” (Hosea 9:14)

God teaches the use of a bizarre ritual using cursed “bitter water” to abort a fetus who was conceived through infidelity. (Numbers 5:11-21)

God orders Moses to kill every Midianite woman who was no longer a virgin. (many of these women would obviously have been pregnant) (Numbers 31:15-18)

God promises to destroy the infants of Samaria and rip open the stomachs of pregnant women.

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open. (Hosea 13:16)

God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah to be ripped open.

At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women. (2 Kings 15:16)

God commands the killing of infants and nursing babies.

Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey. (1 Samuel 15:3)

God repays your enemies by destroying their babies.

Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us. He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks. (Psalms 137:8-9)
 
Once again, the original topic, presented as a reminder of the purpose of this thread and with a suggestion that if you are simply wanting to debate back and forth about abortion perhaps starting your own thread would be better . . . Thank you! :tiphat:
3DOCTORS said:
Does anyone else feel what I feel - such great, overwhelming sadness that, to give just a few examples:
  • So many people in society don’t seem to want to be creative and proactive and brainstorm to find ways a mother and baby in a difficult pregnancy can be saved, rather than pitting one against the other? Of course it is difficult when an emergency situation is unfolding - but again, being proactive, brainstorming worst-case scenarios, couldn’t hurt and might help.
  • Many are so eager to accuse pro-lifers of lacking in compassion, when in reality - I’ll speak for myself but surely there are others - we are anguished and heartbroken and torn to pieces inside, especially by the “hard cases” ?
  • Politics and argument aren’t going to accomplish much but get people angry at each other, :slapfight: so we’d better turn to prayer - I’m not saying give up activism, but boy do we need prayer and plenty of it, because it appears Satan is pulling out all the stops in this spiritual battle? And he’s winning hearts to the expedient, the quick fix, the darkness which masquerades as light, the “cure” which kills.
  • The Gospel of Life is being threatened severely by the Culture of Death and it’s all happening so fast we’ve hardly time to map out a strategy, and then we get screamed at for even posting a pro-life message on someplace like Facebook, which the recipient can delete if they don’t like it? They are trying to intimidate us into cowardice. Though we must choose our battlegrounds carefully and not waste ammo.
If any of this makes sense to you, this outpouring of my own heart, unite your heart and prayer intentions however you see fit - Rosary, St. Michael Prayer, Divine Mercy Chaplet, or just pouring out your own heart to the Lord and begging him to nudge all our hearts toward His Divine Light.
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