Movement in the Sign of Peace movement movement [Fr. Z]

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I always found it incredibly incongruous in the flow of the Mass that, mere moments after the miracle of transubstantiation, the congregation engages in hand-shaking, backslapping, and hugging, all while leaving the Lord all alone on the altar.

As you may or may not know, whether to include the Sign of Peace among the faithful during a Mass is at the discretion of the priest.

Also, with few exceptions, the priest is supposed to remain in the sanctuary at the Sign of Peace.

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Pope pondering change to Mass liturgy: Sign of Peace may be moved to keep solemnity.

AP foreign, Sunday November 23 2008

VATICAN CITY (AP) - A high-ranking Vatican official says Pope Benedict XVI is considering introducing a change to the Mass liturgy.

Cardinal Francis Arinze, who heads the Vatican office for sacraments, says pope may move the placement of the sign of peace, where congregation members shake hands or hug.

Arinze told the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano in an interview published Friday that the pope has asked bishops to express their opinions and will then decide.

Under the change, the sign of peace, which now takes place moments before the reception of communion, would come earlier. Arinze said the change might help create a more solemn atmosphere as the faithful are preparing to receive communion.

guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/8064842
 
In the ELCA liturgy, the Sign of Peace occurs after the Prayers of the Faithful and prior to the Offering. It allows, unfortunately, the entire liturgy to devolve into the type of “social atmosphere” that many decry here.

I believe that in the Episcopal Mass, the Sign of Peace occurs in place of the orate fratres.
 
Actually, this is the one innovatoin that the Neocatechumenal Movement was allowed to keep during thier Masses. It was the one thing that Pope Benedict indicated was viable for the reasons that Lepanto indicated.

It also makes more sense. We are preparing to make our offering to the Lord. It was He who said in the Gospel that before we bring our gift to the altar, we should make peace with our brethren. Looking at it from that standponit, it is a much better fit.

Besides, the sign of peace has, unfortunately, turned into a roving free for all, especially when folks will sometimes go from pew to pew hugging or shaking hands. We forget that it should be done with some sobriety.
 
I will stand behind our blessed Pope 100% on this one. Just as our RCIA teacher (I’m a sponsor) says, that the reason for Mass is NOT to socialize but to worship GOD! That’s why I have fallen away from holding hands, and instead just folding my hands in prayer while saying the Lord’s Prayer. Of course it’s only polite to be congenial toward your fellow “man”, but do it before and after Holy Mass.

:gopray:
 
I would caution all of you … it’s become a free-for-all now because we’ve let it (and I blame “music directors” for not knowing what the GIRM says about the Agnus Dei). If this gets moved to the start of the Liturgy of the Eucharist, the free-for-all? You ain’t seen ‘nuthin’ unless our priests exercise their ability to move the Mass along.
 
The sign of peace in the latin mass is before communion and was left in the same place for the OF after the changes. It is based on scripture that one make peace with their enemies before approaching the altar with their gifts. This development is interesting in that liturgists (yes even the very liberal) have been asking for this change for years as it makes more sense when trying to follow scripture. Unfortunately it has gotten out of hand because the priests have let that happen. As a musician/liturgist it drives me nuts when it goes on and on and on. I’ve been told by many a priest not to start the Lamb of God until he gets back behind the altar for the fraction. Now I tend to be more progressive but this is one area that must be changed. As for the Episcopals, they in fact have the sign of peace before the offertory begins as outlined in the Book of Common Prayer. I hope Benedict moves quickly on this one.
 
Personally, I hope the “sign of peace” is moved… to earlier in the Mass.

We always have a “meet and greet” with those around us, just prior to Mass starting… so the later “sign of peace” seems superfluous anyway. 🤷

Beyond the point where all should be kneeling, there are often some ushers who feel it their “duty” to go row by row… shaking hands. It is more than disconcerting… to be kneeling before my Lord and Creator… and suddenly have an ushers hand extended nearly into my face.
 
I’d prefer the Pax to remain where it is, but drastically reduce the exercising of the option to have the people extend it to one another. (In other words, the priest says: “The peace of Christ be with you always.” / “And also with you.” then right into the Fractio and the Agnus Dei.)

The reasons I have for this are two:
  1. This has been the traditional location of the Pax in the Roman Rite for over a thousand years. Keep it here, but correct its use.
  2. While the option is not being exercised, use the time to educate the faithful (via homilies, post-Communion-prayer announcements, bulletins, etc.) about what the Pax is (and is not!), how it is done in the E.F. of the Mass, how it should be done in the O.F. of the Mass, and what this rite signifies. THEN exercise the option, on occasion, when the people know how to do it right.
CATECHESIS IS THE BEST REFORM.
 
I totally support the Holy Father on this.
Makes so much more senese, esp. since it is far more scriptural!
 
I had no idea about hugging and backslapping, or is this just an American thing?

Here, in Australia, we just shake hands, with the right hand, then receive communion with the left hand.

Cheers!
 
I wonder just how many of the laity even understand what the Sign of Peace really is? It seems that all too often, particularly in Masses attended by large groups of young unmarried people. Lifeteen comes to mind, it has become nothing more than a way to legitimately approach a particularly attractive young lady or man when normally you wouldn’t dare to do so.

As far as moving it, I say position it either at the very beginning somewhere or move it to the very end. Where it is now really makes little if no sense and I think directly leads to a loss of reverence by shifting you focus to the community rather than on God at that critical time in the Mass.

Of course I have been to Masses where it remained where it is and at that moment the Priest bowed to the congregation and they bowed back. Very dignified, very reverent and no running around looking for a hook up:thumbsup:
 
I do stand corrected. The Sign of Peace in the Episcopal Mass is in the same place as the ELCA Liturgy, following the Prayers of the People and prior to the Offertory.

If the Holy Father does this, the American church will have more problems with the Sign of Peace becoming “social hour” than where it is now. I don’t question his wisdom; everything I’ve ever read suggests that it’s in the wrong place currently, but a problem in the US might get a whole lot worse.

The celebrant and the musicians MUST be on the same page regarding the Offertory, as failure to start the music will ensure that this goes on too long.
 
There is no question but that as-a-whole in the US, the Sign of Peace has become disruptive, overly extended, overly social, and is not even remotely related to the actual liturgical meaning of this gesture.

The problem of course, is “how to address it?” I can only hope that if the Holy Father does indeed decide to move it to a more appropriate location, the move itself will be accompanied by clear catechesis from the Holy See. It is one thing to tell people “this isn’t the coffee hour” when they have been so accustomed to treating it just like the coffee hour. The instruction falls upon deaf ears; very few people pay any attention if they have already made up their own minds that this is a moment for socializing. On the other hand, if the Holy Father takes the opportunity to combine the “moving” with some very clear directives on the meaning and necessity for dignity and solemnity at that moment, we just might make some progress. The move itself will get everyone’s attention. My gut feeling is that he will do just that. I also suspect that he might (just might) take the opportunity to remind everyone that the Rite of Peace is always done, but the Sign of Peace is at the discretion of the celebrant (assuming he leaves that part).
 
Here’s a rather crude thought. Just because he does it, there is no guarantee that his priests will do it.

The entire problem has always been disobedient priests. Even this change is being reported (not that the Holy Father is truly thinking this way) as occurring because of how out of hand this has gotten.
 
palmas85 said:
I wonder just how many of the laity even understand what the Sign of Peace really is? It seems that all too often, particularly in Masses attended by large groups of young unmarried people. Lifeteen comes to mind, it has become nothing more than a way to legitimately approach a particularly attractive young lady or man when normally you wouldn’t dare to do so.
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Funny you should mention Life Teen. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I had to attend a LT Mass back in September (it was either that or no Mass at all that weekend). The S of P went on for several minutes (and practically turned into a mini mosh pit) even after the priest had resumed his oratory. It was like there were two separate events happening simultaneously.
 
This is how Zenit reported the news this evening. Cardinal Arinze, it seems, was interviewed by the official Vatican newspaper on the occasion of the 50th aniversary of his priestly ordination. Here is what he said:
“Often, the significance of this gesture is not fully understood,” Cardinal Arinze noted. “It is thought that it is an occasion to give a high-five to friends. Rather, it is a way of saying to the person beside you that the peace of Christ, really present on the altar, is also with all men.”
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The prelate said that the Church is considering moving the sign of peace to the moment of the offertory, “to create an atmosphere of more recollection while one is preparing for Communion.”
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“The Pope has asked for a consultation of all the bishops,” the cardinal said. “Afterward, he will decide.”
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This reminds me of the time, when my dad started serving as altar server coordinator, that he caught the kids flashing peace sings at each other during the Sign of Peace. My dad gave the kids the evil eye and the stopped (the kids were at the altar). After Mass, one of them asked my dad what was up with the Rock eyebrow (any WWE fans in these forums could smell what my dad was cooking). He told him that, as someone from the 60s, that sign went out with the flower children. Furthermore, “we aren’t flower kids, and, that is not the way the Church wants us to do this. Shake hands with the person next to you and go no further.” After that, the kids stopped flashing the peace sign and soberly shook hands. The priest was happy.

Of course, there are also folks who will sit at the front and flash a peace sign to friends in the back. Go figure.🤷
 
CCC 1345 gives St. Justin Martyr’s description of the Mass. After the prayers of petition following the Gospel reading, the people “exchange the kiss,” what we today would call the sign of peace.
“Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren.”
I like the idea of the Sign of Peace coming after the prayers of petition and before the gifts are brought to the altar.
As scripture says, “If when you bring your gifts to the altar, you remember that your brother has a grievance against you, go first and be reconciled to your brother and then return with your gift.” The Sign of Peace, therefore, becomes a sign of reconciliation and forgiveness as we prepare for the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
 
Personally, I like the sign of peace, but I wouldn’t mind if it was moved to before the offering. It fits better there. But like someone else said earlier, moving it to before the offering could cause it to become more of a social hour. People at my church already treat the offertory like an intermission. This is when lots of people get up and go to the bathroom, get a drink of water, etc. I could just picture people walking around greeting people as they’re walking towards the bathroom. Some people might continue greeting each other during the offertory hymn.
 
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