Movement recognizes gays as part of God’s plan

[buffalo]

Movement recognizes gays as part of God’s plan

Marriage equality for same-sex couples is a hot-button issue nationwide, but here in New York it is particularly timely to consider. Recently, the State Assembly passed the marriage equality bill by an overwhelming margin for the second year in a row. The parallel legislation in the State Senate has been held up by the leadership dispute between Democrats and Republicans.
The bill provides same-sex couples the same opportunity to enter into civil marriages as opposite-sex couples. The bill also provides that no member of the clergy may be compelled to perform any marriage ceremony.

more…

 

[Newbie2]

Movement recognizes gays as part of God’s plan

Marriage equality for same-sex couples is a hot-button issue nationwide, but here in New York it is particularly timely to consider. Recently, the State Assembly passed the marriage equality bill by an overwhelming margin for the second year in a row. The parallel legislation in the State Senate has been held up by the leadership dispute between Democrats and Republicans.
The bill provides same-sex couples the same opportunity to enter into civil marriages as opposite-sex couples. **The bill also provides that no member of the clergy may be compelled to perform any marriage ceremony. **

more…

How long do you suppose it will be until they attempt to change this provision?

 

[buffalo]

How long do you suppose it will be until they attempt to change this provision?

No doubt Phase II will be marry them or lose your tax exempt status.

Photographers have already been sued for electing not to photograph so called gay weddings.

 

[Newbie2]

Same with printers who refuse to print “wedding” announcements.

 

[JimG]

No doubt Phase II will be marry them or lose your tax exempt status.

Photographers have already been sued for electing not to photograph so called gay weddings.

I imagine that anyone involved in weddings–photographers, wedding planners, reception halls, caterers, videographers, etc, will be at risk of a lawsuit should they not wish to participate in gay weddings as a part of their business. It may be only a matter of time before the law begins to lean on religious organizations who refuse to cooperate in gay marriages. Because the goal is not merely gay marriage, it is complete social acceptance of the gay lifestyle as morally and socially equivalent to traditional marriage. The more business that can be co-opted or forced into cooperation, the closer that goal becomes.

 

[buffalo]

And young altar servers being forced to serve.

 

[keyboardrob]

I know that there are many complications (so to speak) in the matter of gay marriage. As a long time church musician, i’ve played for many weddings, including so called “gay” weddings. As i look back and also account for the present, i find it interesting that amongst my friends, it is the “gay marriages” that have endured more often than opposite sex couples. Without fail, the hetero marriages had all the trimmings- photographer, wedding planners, etc., while the gay marriages didn’t. Yet, the gay marriages are solid as a rock and the hetero marriages (at least half of them I’ve done) fall apart at the seams.

It does make me wonder about the state of marriage- and I do wonder if GOod is trying to tell us something about marriage given what i’ve observed.

I’m not saying (yet) what i consider to be right or wrong on the marriage issues. But I am stating that my experiences have given me pause before I make a personal judgment on gay marriage and all that recognition of such will incur upon our society.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

No doubt Phase II will be marry them or lose your tax exempt status.

Photographers have already been sued for electing not to photograph so called gay weddings.

Same with printers who refuse to print “wedding” announcements.

Does anyone know the outcome of these cases?

I would find it interesting if the plaintiffs won, because as long as there were other photographers and printers willing to do the work, where is the injury?

I have been watching with interest as gay marriage laws have been passed in states and have yet to hear of a single couple trying to marry in a church that will not accept them. It would be like a Jewish couple suing the Catholic church because they could not marry there without converting. The case would never get to the inside of a courtroom. Religious rules regarding marriage have always been respected and there is no reason so far to believe that that would change. A provision was added to the RI gay marriage bill to protect churches, but even the people who put it in admitted that it was not necessary legally, it was only put there to reassure people.

 

[JimG]

Does anyone know the outcome of these cases?

I would find it interesting if the plaintiffs won, because as long as there were other photographers and printers willing to do the work, where is the injury?

In many if not most areas of the country, “sexual orientation” is a protected class along with race, religion, and gender. A business professional refusing to accept business from a member of a protected class can be sued on the grounds of illegal discrimination.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

In many if not most areas of the country, “sexual orientation” is a protected class along with race, religion, and gender. A business professional refusing to accept business from a member of a protected class can be sued on the grounds of illegal discrimination.

I don’t even know what states those cases were filed in, I’m assuming CA, but I thought maybe someone that mentioned them might know. I’d like to read the actual decisions and see what the case was based on.

I’ll do some digging later.

 

[buffalo]

In many if not most areas of the country, “sexual orientation” is a protected class along with race, religion, and gender. A business professional refusing to accept business from a member of a protected class can be sued on the grounds of illegal discrimination.

Orientation does not rise to the level of race.

 

[JimG]

The following article from NPR mentions a number of recent cases where gay rights and religious liberties clash, including the above mentioned photographer:

npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91486191

And here is a professional photographer who looks at it mainly from the economic angle. A quick review of the comments indicates that most take the pro-gay position. But what if a photographer is just really offended by having to photograph a gay ceremony?

rising.blackstar.com/will-photographing-same-sex-unions-hurt-or-help-your-wedding-photography-busi.html

 

[mkingdomlvr]

The following article from NPR mentions a number of recent cases where gay rights and religious liberties clash, including the above mentioned photographer:

npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91486191

And here is a professional photographer who looks at it mainly from the economic angle. A quick review of the comments indicates that most take the pro-gay position. But what if a photographer is just really offended by having to photograph a gay ceremony?

rising.blackstar.com/will-photographing-same-sex-unions-hurt-or-help-your-wedding-photography-busi.html

Um…don’t take the job?

If you know that a job is going to require you to do something that is in radical opposition to your beliefs, then why would you take it? If it means making less $$, isn’t that a sacrifice that is worthy to make for God?

 

[JimG]

Um…don’t take the job?

If you know that a job is going to require you to do something that is in radical opposition to your beliefs, then why would you take it? If it means making less $$, isn’t that a sacrifice that is worthy to make for God?

The point is that, under anti-discrimination laws, if sexual orientation is covered as a protected category, then it may be illegal to turn down the job.

 

[Benadam]

This shows that the real battle is for the dignity of conscience.

 

[edwest2]

I know that there are many complications (so to speak) in the matter of gay marriage. As a long time church musician, i’ve played for many weddings, including so called “gay” weddings. As i look back and also account for the present, i find it interesting that amongst my friends, it is the “gay marriages” that have endured more often than opposite sex couples. Without fail, the hetero marriages had all the trimmings- photographer, wedding planners, etc., while the gay marriages didn’t. Yet, the gay marriages are solid as a rock and the hetero marriages (at least half of them I’ve done) fall apart at the seams.

It does make me wonder about the state of marriage- and I do wonder if GOod is trying to tell us something about marriage given what i’ve observed.

I’m not saying (yet) what i consider to be right or wrong on the marriage issues. But I am stating that my experiences have given me pause before I make a personal judgment on gay marriage and all that recognition of such will incur upon our society.

How long have the gay couples been married? Has that been around long enough to make a judgement?

God has always told us the same thing about marriage – one man, one woman. Church teaching is clear in this regard, and it is also clear about same sex marriage. The discrimination argument is a smoke screen. All laws discriminate. Same sex marriage violates natural law and God’s law. This is a recent invention.

I watched an all-out assault against the family begin in 1968. It was called the Sexual Revolution because it was about sex, not love. Catholics like me were called “sexually repressed” at the time. What did that mean? We could get married and have sex, but since we did not want to participate in adultery, relabeled “swinging” in the 1970s, there was something wrong with us? Or because we knew it was wrong to live with our girlfriends and have sex before marriage? That is what caused the problem.

In 1968, the Church saw what was coming and issued Humanae Vitae. The Church knew that the The Pill would tempt people to have sex outside of marriage. It warned of the consequences for married couples. The Church had a plan and it was subverted.

Time magazine, November, 1968:

time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,841458,00.html

Peace,
Ed

 

[fix]

I know that there are many complications (so to speak) in the matter of gay marriage. As a long time church musician, i’ve played for many weddings, including so called “gay” weddings. As i look back and also account for the present, i find it interesting that amongst my friends, it is the “gay marriages” that have endured more often than opposite sex couples. Without fail, the hetero marriages had all the trimmings- photographer, wedding planners, etc., while the gay marriages didn’t. Yet, the gay marriages are solid as a rock and the hetero marriages (at least half of them I’ve done) fall apart at the seams.

It does make me wonder about the state of marriage- and I do wonder if GOod is trying to tell us something about marriage given what i’ve observed.

I’m not saying (yet) what i consider to be right or wrong on the marriage issues. But I am stating that my experiences have given me pause before I make a personal judgment on gay marriage and all that recognition of such will incur upon our society.

Sorry, but marriage is not defined by how long people are together.

 

[limerick]

"The Church knew that the The Pill would tempt people to have sex outside of marriage. It warned of the consequences for married couples. The Church had a plan and it was subverted."

**edwest2, what do you mean by this?

Limerick**

 

[edwest2]

"The Church knew that the The Pill would tempt people to have sex outside of marriage. It warned of the consequences for married couples. The Church had a plan and it was subverted."

**edwest2, what do you mean by this?

Limerick**

Subversion from within. See the Time magazine article link.

Peace,
Ed