Movie about Islam

[Sister_Amy]

Correct. Right now, who is guilty of the majority of terrorist acts?

That would be the entity which has killed the most innocent people? I’d say the US Armed Forces.

And yet these people do it with a smile. Why?

These people? What people? Have you considered they might be mentally unbalanced?

True, but why would God create a system that never works when applied?

It does work when it’s applied. The problem is that IT’S NOT APPLIED.

I was throwing another example of hate-filled Muslims. Not all Muslims agree that 9/11 was wrong. Some were cheering in the street.

Cheering in the street? I don’t know a single Muslim, anywhere in the world, who thinks that 9/11 was okay or good, or anything other than a horrible injustice and the murder of innocent people. Any other view is fringe, and there is almost consensus among all the Muslims (not even just scholars, but all the Muslims) that 9/11 was wrong. That’s pretty amazingly significant.

We try. People who hate damage themselves worse than their target.

So do you use the Qur’an to argue that terrorists are wrong?

 

[Sister_Amy]

People are attacked for being Muslim? Often, in the cases of Afghanistan, Israel (you call Palestine), Chechnya, Pakistan, etc, the first victims of Radical Islam are Muslims themselves.

For being Muslim? Muslims are being attacked. Period. They are being attacked by Israel (and Palestine is NOT Israel, please learn the difference. I’m talking about the West Bank and Gaza, aka “Occupied Territories”) attacked by Russians, attacked by Americans!! Innocent people. Killed. That’s my point.

And why marry faith to nationalism? Most of those areas you speak of are contested for nationalist reasons.

You’re catching on.

I have a big problem with the entire weltanschauung behind “Offensive Jihad”.

Is this the claim in the West Bank? Chechnya? Kashmir? You can see how easily the concept is twisted once you go down that rabbit-hole.

Did you read my blog? Aw! No, in these places the claim is not offensive Jihad. It is DEFENSIVE.

Muslims are " being sent to jail, abducted by the government, deported, and spirited away to random third world countries to be tortured for practicing Islam" in the US?

Yes.

If by “practicing Islam”, you mean “attacking or planning to attack the US or US interests”, you may have a point. We have a due process legal system in this country. For the most part, it works pretty well.

Tell that to Ziyad Busaileh. Just one person about whom I’ve received a lot of emails recently. What about Sami Al-Arian? What about Imam Qatanani in New Jersey?

Somebody should tell representative Keith Ellison that he may be jailed for being a Muslim.

As if he doesn’t know?

Historically speaking, you are well off the mark. The concept that non Muslims should be treated differently in Muslim countries is very much alive and well to this day.

Nice dodge, though.

Differently? I’ll discuss it with you but using real words. Dhimmitude… is not a real word.

You had asked if you were a “radical”, by your posts, I would say no, although I am bothered a little by your hypersensitivty and conflating pretty much anything to an “attack”.

Thank you for your honest answers.

Hypersensitivity and conflating pretty much anything to an “attack.” Interesting.

And you’re welcome.

 

[ralphinal]

That would be the entity which has killed the most innocent people? I’d say the US Armed Forces.

Invaled assertion. We are not fighting people who have done nothing to us. We are fighting because there was an attack on our largest city. Do you deny that they were Muslims?

These people? What people? Have you considered they might be mentally unbalanced?

I have no doubt about that. As a psychology major, I would ask if their faith contributed to the problem.

It does work when it’s applied. The problem is that IT’S NOT APPLIED.

And it has never been applied and never will be applied, so it does not work

Cheering in the street? I don’t know a single Muslim, anywhere in the world, who thinks that 9/11 was okay or good, or anything other than a horrible injustice and the murder of innocent people. Any other view is fringe, and there is almost consensus among all the Muslims (not even just scholars, but all the Muslims) that 9/11 was wrong. That’s pretty amazingly significant.

Read this link

And this one.

And for your viewing pleasure, a video

Yes, it was significant how much condemnation the attacks received, but it is also significant that Muslim leaders have blamed Isreal, the US, and others for the attacks. Pakistan’s government is now shooting at us to keep us away from al Quida. And you never told me, was it Muslims who just bombed our embassy in Yemen?

So do you use the Qur’an to argue that terrorists are wrong?

Sure, and they use it to show that they are right. the only thing these people understand is brute force.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Kafirs can’t issue fatwas.

Think about it logically.

Bad guy honors Qur’an.
Bad guy reads Qur’an.
Bad guy mistakenly think Qur’an tells him to do bad act xyz.

How to respond?

Good guy dishonors Qur’an?
Good guy mocks Qur’an?
Good guy says Qur’an is evil, and that bad guy is right?

That’s what is going on now (imo) and it’s the exact opposite of what should be going on.

Instead this is what should happen:

Good guy honors Qur’an too.
Good guy reads Qur’an too.
Good guy says that Qur’an upholds justice (and proves it) and says that the Qur’an is telling the bad guy to do good things instead of bad things.

That’s how you “win hearts and minds.”

 

[scipio337]

That would be the entity which has killed the most innocent people? I’d say the US Armed Forces.

Deliberately targeted? Horrible moral equivalence.
Sister Amy:

These people? What people? Have you considered they might be mentally unbalanced?

Of course, I have. The problem is getting their followers, supporters, and sympathizers to do that.
Sister Amy:

These It does work when it’s applied. The problem is that IT’S NOT APPLIED.

People say the same thing about Communism. I see your bare assertion fallacy, and raise you an argumentum ad logicam.
Sister Amy:

These Cheering in the street? I don’t know a single Muslim, anywhere in the world, who thinks that 9/11 was okay or good, or anything other than a horrible injustice and the murder of innocent people. Any other view is fringe, and there is almost consensus among all the Muslims (not even just scholars, but all the Muslims) that 9/11 was wrong. That’s pretty amazingly significant.

Actually, they handed out candy. In East Jerusalem

It is not a myth.

snopes.com/rumors/cnn.asp

Which such wonderful world-views as “The US Armed Forces are the biggest terrorists in the world”, is in any wonder?
Sister Amy:

So do you use the Qur’an to argue that terrorists are wrong?

Wouldn’t you say that’s the role of a prominent leader in Islam? How many fatwas have been issued against bin Laden, members of Hizbollah or Hamas, etc for their actions?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Invaled assertion. We are not fighting people who have done nothing to us. We are fighting because there was an attack on our largest city. Do you deny that they were Muslims?

Invalid? How so? What did Iraqi civilians to do you? What did Afghani children do to you? Did they attack your largest city? Nope. But they are being killed, slaughtered. Are you saying it’s because they are Muslims?

Think about it, man. How many children died in 9/11? And how many children have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan since the US invasion?

I have no doubt about that. As a psychology major, I would ask if their faith contributed to the problem.

Do you ask this question about Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?

And it has never been applied and never will be applied, so it does not work.

It was applied by Muhammad.

And if the Muslims would stick to it, then they would just do better and better. But they don’t. They are as corrupt as we are, if not more.

Read this link

And this one.

And for your viewing pleasure, a video

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks. Read that.

Yes, it was significant how much condemnation the attacks received, but it is also significant that Muslim leaders have blamed Isreal, the US, and others for the attacks. Pakistan’s government is now shooting at us to keep us away from al Quida. And you never told me, was it Muslims who just bombed our embassy in Yemen?

I consider it somewhat strange and suspicious that not even the terrorists have really admitted to 9/11. That’s just weird. And that Muslims universally condemn it. It is very strange…

And I don’t know anything about an embassy bombing in Yemen.

Sure, and they use it to show that they are right. the only thing these people understand is brute force.

Is that how you respond, as a psychology major?

I think maybe you people only understand brute force.

 

[ralphinal]

Think about it logically.

Bad guy honors Qur’an.
Bad guy reads Qur’an.
Bad guy mistakenly think Qur’an tells him to do bad act xyz.

How to respond?

Good guy dishonors Qur’an?
Good guy mocks Qur’an?
Good guy says Qur’an is evil, and that bad guy is right?

That’s what is going on now (imo) and it’s the exact opposite of what should be going on.

Instead this is what should happen:

Good guy honors Qur’an too.
Good guy reads Qur’an too.
Good guy says that Qur’an upholds justice (and proves it) and says that the Qur’an is telling the bad guy to do good things instead of bad things.

That’s how you “win hearts and minds.”

And that might work if they were rational beings. Many of those who engage in these activites are not rational.

 

[Booklover]

It was applied by Muhammad.

And if the Muslims would stick to it, then they would just do better and better. But they don’t. They are as corrupt as we are, if not more.

How was it applied by Muhammad? Give us examples.

Vickie

 

[trustme80]

Think about it logically.

Bad guy honors Qur’an.
Bad guy reads Qur’an.
Bad guy mistakenly think Qur’an tells him to do bad act xyz.

wow sister amy

the bali bombers actualy quoted a bunch of verses from the quran
and the hadiths to justify their act and i dont think they have mistaken anything

 

[Sister_Amy]

Deliberately targeted? Horrible moral equivalence.

Huh?

Of course, I have. The problem is getting their followers, supporters, and sympathizers to do that.

I guess killing them all solves the problem for you?

People say the same thing about Communism. I see your bare assertion fallacy, and raise you an argumentum ad logicam.

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Wouldn’t you say that’s the role of a prominent leader in Islam? How many fatwas have been issued against bin Laden, members of Hizbollah or Hamas, etc for their actions?

Okay, listen to me, because I don’t think I’m going to say this very many times.

Prominent leaders in Islam DO CONDEMND TERRORISM, in every shape and form imaginable. They do that AROUND THE WORLD. Okay? All over.

This thread is called “movie about Islam” because there is a propaganda campaign against Islam. And listen here, because these propaganda campaigns which CONDEMN ISLAM undo the work of all those prominent leaders and scholars.

These kinds of movies make things worse all around, voiding the work of Muslims around the world who are working for peace.

 

[Sister_Amy]

And that might work if they were rational beings. Many of those who engage in these activites are not rational.

According to whom?

You can say that because you are a psychology major I guess?

I think it’s just a cop out, honestly.

 

[Booklover]

And that might work if they were rational beings. Many of those who engage in these activites are not rational.

Wafa Sultan: When I examined the Koran, the hadith, and the Islamic books under a microscope, I came to the absolute conviction that it is impossible – impossible! – for any human being to read the biography of Muhammad and believe in it, and yet emerge a psychologically and mentally healthy person.

Vickie

 

[Sister_Amy]

wow sister amy

the bali bombers actualy quoted a bunch of verses from the quran
and the hadiths to justify their act and i dont think they have mistaken anything

Then you’re as gullible as terrorist followers… right?

People can use the Qur’an to justify just about anything but it doesn’t mean they are correct. If you want to find something bad in there you’ll find it.

Imam 'Ali said that if he lost his camel he could find it in the Qur’an.

 

[Sister_Amy]

How was it applied by Muhammad? Give us examples.

Vickie

You have arrived.

That means it’s time for me to depart this thread.

Auf wieder sehen.

 

[ralphinal]

Invalid? How so? What did Iraqi civilians to do you? What did Afghani children do to you? Did they attack your largest city? Nope. But they are being killed, slaughtered. Are you saying it’s because they are Muslims?

Think about it, man. How many children died in 9/11? And how many children have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan since the US invasion?

We are not targeting civilians. We have, unfortunately killed more than 0. Sometimes it is a mistake, sometimes it was something else. Those who commit terrorist acts are trying to kill innocent people because they are cowards. Would we be in Afganistan if we had not been attacked?

Do you ask this question about Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?

Yep. Most of my understanding of the use of terror as a political tool came from studying that situation.

It was applied by Muhammad.

How long after he died did the system collapse?

And if the Muslims would stick to it, then they would just do better and better. But they don’t. They are as corrupt as we are, if not more.

Ok.

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks. Read that.

That is a lot to read!! I do not see anywhere on here the refutation of Palestinians dancing in the streets, the proof that the Party did not happen in London, or any of that. There were Muslims who were happy. It may have been a small percentage, but 5% of a billion is still 50 million.

I consider it somewhat strange and suspicious that not even the terrorists have really admitted to 9/11. That’s just weird. And that Muslims universally condemn it. It is very strange…

It has not been universally condemned. All rational Muslims have, but that is not 100%. Further, they are now afraid of retribution. They did admit to it until the bomb started falling all around them.

And I don’t know anything about an embassy bombing in Yemen.

Check the news tonight. Or google it.

Is that how you respond, as a psychology major?

I think maybe you people only understand brute force.

No, that is how I respond as a human. I hate to admit that sometimes, I too give in to the base side of my nature. In this world, there are times that you must accept that peace is not an option. There are people who want to kill me. There are people who want to kill you. More than likely, none of them will find us. But, they are there.

 

[Booklover]

You have arrived.

That means it’s time for me to depart this thread.

Auf wieder sehen.

Does that mean you can’t answer the question? Can’t you defend your prophet?

Vickie

 

[ralphinal]

According to whom?

You can say that because you are a psychology major I guess?

I think it’s just a cop out, honestly.

So terrorists ARE being rational?

Come on, Sister Amy, even you cannot beleive that.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

How was it applied by Muhammad? Give us examples.

Vickie

And better yet, since his followers don’t follow him, why should we?

 

[trustme80]

Then you’re as gullible as terrorist followers… right?

People can use the Qur’an to justify just about anything but it doesn’t mean they are correct. If you want to find something bad in there you’ll find it.

Imam 'Ali said that if he lost his camel he could find it in the Qur’an.

nope, i have a quran and the entire collection of hadiths bukhari from my religion questioning days
i conclude that there are some “nice” verses from the weak eras, but there are more bad verses after muhammad had power

and there’s even an entire short sura cursing abu lahab and his wife ( muhammad’s uncle ) for not believing muhammad, which for me just doesnt make sense to be included in the complete and eternal guide for mankind

 

[Booklover]

And better yet, since his followers don’t follow him, why should we?

Exactly!

Vickie