MOVIE: "Expelled"

  • Thread starter Thread starter wisdom_3_5
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Bean61;3613714:
Hi Abbadon,
I see higher education still doesn’t teach humility.

Let’s see: how did an M1 virus go to an M5 virus. Then this virus went from a bird and eventually into a human.
How about this for an answer: It was manufactered to do just this sort of thing. I find it very difficult to believe that a new strain of virus is endangering the whole human race. It sounds fake to me, just like everything associated with Darwin and his friends.
Now by fake, I don’t mean that the bird virus doesn’t exist. I mean that it was produced by men. /QUOTE]
Bird flu was just an example, you missed the point entirely. How about the flu? Thats not “deadly” and it also mutates every year you get a new flu shot. Do you know what a genetic mutation is?
So the flu is a mutation of some virus that came before it. So What? I hardly think a flu virus is going to prove Darwins theories correct.
By the way, every year that I took a flu shot I came down with a very bad flu. I don’t take flu shots anymore and I stay healty all year long. When that bird flu comes, I won’t be taking that either. You take it and let me know what happens.
Have you heard of small pox? What do you think the black plague was?
I wasn’t there for either one. Neither were you.
Well where did these animals come from? How come we find them at certain periods of time but not at others? Why are there no bunny rabbits during the cretaceous?
What animals are you discussing here? God didn’t necessarily make all the animals at the same split second. Are you aware that at approximately 350 million years ago scientists found that the earth was covered with animals. They found their bones. All over the place. All kinds of bones. Now when these same scientists go back to 375 million years ago there are no bones. Where did these animals come form? There were no ancestors of the animals in which the bones were found. Almost like they just showed up. Mmmmmm. What can this mean?
They couldn’t have evolved. There were no ancestors. Wow! Now this is a mystery. Of course Darwinians just ignore it, as they should ignore it. Why? Because it may put them out of business.
Darwanism, I hear this thrown around alot you make it sound like a religion. Since darwin first proposed the theory there have been some great new discoveries and refinements to the theory. Do you mean Evolution? Well what i was trying to indicate by the age of the earth and the age of the universe is that we have vastly enough time for the theory to function. If the universe was say 10 000 years old there would be no way evolution is even a considered theory.
I meant to say Darwinism. This is also known as the religion of evolution and natural selection with Darwin as the founder and Dawkins as the high priest.
Please, we don’t have 10,000 years to prove that the founder was correct. I say we go on to bigger and better things than Darwinism.
I’m sorry but science doesnt work on smoke and mirrors. How else could science and scientific advancement send man to the moon. Cure diseases, provide clean water through filtration. Feed millions on Hubes priciple to increase yield. on average increase life expectancy by 30 - 50 years. International communication at your fingertips, worldwide travel capabilities.
I never said that science works on smoke and mirrors. We do have a lot of really good scientists, unfortunately none of them are Darwinians. Your statement implies that Darwinians made the above discoveries. My own opinion is that Darwinians prayed at the alter of Dawkins while the real scientists went to work.
IF science worked on smoke and mirrors then we would not have any of these things. I trust the scientific method BECAUSE it has made my world a better place. And i understand it. I’m not an evolutionary biologist, and i dont know if an evolutionary biologist would spend his time on these boards. But i do know the roughs of evolution or can find them out. Instead of me asking you questions how about you tell me why do you think evolution is smoke and mirrors?
Darwinians haven’t got a clue as to what the “scientific method” is. If they did, their work doesn’t show it!

I’m moving from a design degree into a science degree and beginning next semester will mainly be doing human biology. So hopefully in the next few months I will be more equiped to answer such questions at a higher level.
But I can tell you right now that there is no debate in the scientific community about the validity of evolution. And at the end of the day when it comes to questions OF science, the global science community’s opinion of the time is the only thing that counts.
Sorry, there is a huge scientific debate as to the validity of Darwinism.
Global Science Community: What praytell is this?
Are these the people that mix the poisonous cocktails for the women in the Philipines? In my humble opinion I would say that the Global science community is failing badly in doing their duty.
Evolution isn’t that important (beside the basic principles) to my future studies, but just because of the amount of bashing it seems to not only get but give, the theistic view point may mean i have to go deep into it.
Please do.
 
Janet_S said:
Maybe Ben Stein’s claim about the connection between Darwin and Hitler is ridiculous. Maybe he is too biased. But we don’t need to take Ben Stein’s word alone as evidence. We have Darwin’s, Galton’s, and Haekel’s writings, as well as the 20th eugenicists writings. Read them for yourself and judge whether Ben Stein’s claims have any merit.
Remember that Isaac Newton also bears guilt for the gravitational death of the thousands of Chilean desaparecidos pushed out of airplanes by the henchmen of the devout Catholic Agosto Pinochet. Einstein is guilty by association of the deaths of hundreds of thousands in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And John Edvard Lundström’s invention of safety matches has led directly to the death hundreds in all the forest fires started by arsonists since 1855. Let us hope that on the last day God holds them as accountable as he will those of us who accept his creation through evolution!

Petrus
 
Was hoping when I found this thread that it would be less poisonous that the debates about “Expelled the Movie” that I have seen elsewhere, but I guess the topic is just naturally explosive.

Anyway, couldn’t let the idea that all scientists agree with Darwinism get by without posting this link discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660 to the 17 pages of names of hundreds of scientists who dissent.

BTW, to put in my two cents, I have a BS in Biology and thought the movie was absolutely wonderful and extremely well done.
 
QUOTE=drpmjhess;3615745]Remember that Isaac Newton also bears guilt for the gravitational death of the thousands of Chilean desaparecidos pushed out of airplanes by the henchmen of the devout Catholic Agosto Pinochet. Einstein is guilty by association of the deaths of hundreds of thousands in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And John Edvard Lundström’s invention of safety matches has led directly to the death hundreds in all the forest fires started by arsonists since 1855. Let us hope that on the last day God holds them as accountable as he will those of us who accept his creation through evolution!
Is this the typical Darwinian use of logic and reason?
 
Was hoping when I found this thread that it would be less poisonous that the debates about “Expelled the Movie” that I have seen elsewhere, but I guess the topic is just naturally explosive.

Anyway, couldn’t let the idea that all scientists agree with Darwinism get by without posting this link discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660 to the 17 pages of names of hundreds of scientists who dissent.

BTW, to put in my two cents, I have a BS in Biology and thought the movie was absolutely wonderful and extremely well done.
Hi Another Chance
Your link was really good!🙂
 
Anyway, couldn’t let the idea that all scientists agree with Darwinism get by without posting this link discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660 to the 17 pages of names of hundreds of scientists who dissent.
NCSE’s “Project Steve” is a tongue-in-cheek parody of a long-standing creationist tradition of amassing lists of “scientists who doubt evolution” or “scientists who dissent from Darwinism.”

Creationists draw up these lists to convince the public that evolution is somehow being rejected by scientists, that it is a “theory in crisis.” Most members of the public lack sufficient contact with the scientific community to know that this claim is totally unfounded. NCSE has been exhorted by its members to compile a list of thousands of scientists affirming the validity of the theory of evolution, but although they easily could have done so, they have resisted such pressure, not wishing to mislead the public into thinking that scientific issues are decided by who has the longer list of scientists!

Project Steve mocks this practice with a bit of humor, and because “Steves” are only about 1% of scientists, it incidentally makes the point that tens of thousands of scientists support evolution. And it honors the late Stephen Jay Gould, NCSE supporter and friend. ncseweb.org/resources/articles/3697_the_list_2_16_2003.asp

NCSE would like to think that after Project Steve, we’ll have seen the last of bogus “scientists doubting evolution” lists, but it’s probably too much to ask. We do hope that at least when such lists are proposed, reporters and other citizens will ask, “but how many Steves are on your list!?”
 
NCSE’s “Project Steve” is a tongue-in-cheek parody of a long-standing creationist tradition of amassing lists of “scientists who doubt evolution” or “scientists who dissent from Darwinism.”
Here is the list of scientists who support evolutionary science. I include only those whose surnames begin with “A.”

Stephen T. Abedon
Associate Professor of Microbiology, Ohio State University
Ph.D.,�Microbiology, University of Arizona
Creator of The Bacteriophage Ecology Group, Home of Phage Ecology and Evolutionary Biology (www.phage.org)
�
Steven G. Ackleson****
Oceanographer, Office of Naval Research
Ph.D., Marine Studies, University of Delaware
�
Stephen A. Adam****
Associate Professor, Department of Cell and Molecular Biology, Feinberg School of Medicine, Northwestern University
Ph.D., Biochemistry, Molecular, and Cell Biology, Northwestern University
�
Steve Adams*****
Vice President, Curl Inc.
Ph.D., Astrophysics, University College London
�
Steven Reid Adams******
Assistant Professor, Department of Biology, University of Central Arkansas
Ph.D., Zoology, Southern Illinois University
�
Steve Adolph******
Professor of Biology, Harvey Mudd College
Ph.D., Zoology, University of Washington
�
Stephen R. Addison*
Associate Professor of Physics, University of Central Arkansas
Ph.D.,�Physics, University of Mississippi
�
Stephen L. Adler
Albert Einstein Professor, School of Natural Sciences, Institute for Advanced Study
Ph.D.,�Physics, Princeton University
Member, National Academy of Sciences
�
Steven K. Akiyama*****
Scientist, Laboratory of Molecular Carcinogenesis, National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, National Institutes of Health
Ph.D., Chemistry, Cornell University
�
Stephen B. Aley
Associate Professor of Biological Sciences, University of Texas, El Paso
Ph.D., Biology, Rockefeller University
�
Stephen C. Alley*
Senior Scientist, Seattle Genetics, Inc.
Ph.D., Chemistry, University of Washington
�
Steve Allison******
Staff scientist, Photonics Group, Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Ph.D., Engineering Physics, University of Virginia
�
Steven I. Altchuler*
Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Mayo Clinic College of Medicine; Consultant in Psychiatry, Mayo Clinic
Ph.D., Nutritional Biochemistry and Metabolism, Massachusetts Institute of Technology; M.D., Baylor College of Medicine
�
Stephen J. Anderson*****
Commercial Officer, U.S. Export Assistance Center, Baltimore, U.S. Department of Commerce
Ph.D.,�Political Science, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
�
Stephen Robert Anderson
Professor of Linguistics and Cognitive Science, Yale University
Ph.D.,�Linguistics, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences
�
Steven C. Anderson******
Emeritus Professor of Biology, University of the Pacific
Ph.D.,�Biology, Stanford University
�
Steven D. Anisman*****
Fellow, Cardiovascular Disease, Worcester Medical Center
M.D., University of Vermont
Diplomate, American Board of Internal Medicine; Member, American College of Cardiology
�
Steven Anschel******
Director, Local Public Health Sales, Netsmart Technologies, Inc.
Ph.D., Zoology, University of Maryland
�
Steve J. Aplin*****
Calorimeter Coordinator, HERA experiment H1, Deutsches Elektronen-Synchrotron
Ph.D., Particle Physics, University of Portsmouth
�
Stephen W. Arch
L. N. Ruben Professor of Biology, Reed College
Ph.D., Biology, University of Chicago
�
Steve Archer****
Professor of Rangeland and Forest Resources, University of Arizona
Ph.D., Rangeland Ecosystem Science, Colorado State University, Ft. Collins
�
J. Steven Arnold*
Medical Director, Intensive Care and Sleep Medicine, St. Mary’s Hospital
Medical Director, Respiratory Care and Sleep Medicine, Decatur Memorial Hospital
M.D.,�Pritzker School of Medicine, University of Chicago
�
Stevan J. Arnold
Professor of Zoology, Oregon State University
Ph.D.,�Zoology, University of Michigan
Past President, Society for the Study of Evolution
�
Steven E. Arnold*****
Assistant Professor of Chemistry, Auburn University, Montgomery
Ph.D.,�Chemistry, Louisiana State University
�
Stephen M. Arthur****
Research Biologist, Alaska Department of Fish and Game
Ph.D.,�Wildlife Biology, University of Maine
�
Steven N. Austad
Professor of Biological Sciences, University of Idaho
Ph.D.,�Zoology?, Purdue University
Author, Why We Age
�
Stephen J. Aves******
Associate Professor of Molecular Biology, University of Exeter
Ph.D., Biochemistry, University of Bristol
�
Stephen Azevedo*
Deputy Division Leader, Electronics Engineering Technologies Division, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Ph.D., Electrical Engineering and Computing Science, University of California, Davis
 
NCSE’s “Project Steve” is a tongue-in-cheek parody of a long-standing creationist tradition of amassing lists of “scientists who doubt evolution” or “scientists who dissent from Darwinism.”

Creationists draw up these lists to convince the public that evolution is somehow being rejected by scientists, that it is a “theory in crisis.” Most members of the public lack sufficient contact with the scientific community to know that this claim is totally unfounded. NCSE has been exhorted by its members to compile a list of thousands of scientists affirming the validity of the theory of evolution, but although they easily could have done so, they have resisted such pressure, not wishing to mislead the public into thinking that scientific issues are decided by who has the longer list of scientists!

Project Steve mocks this practice with a bit of humor, and because “Steves” are only about 1% of scientists, it incidentally makes the point that tens of thousands of scientists support evolution. And it honors the late Stephen Jay Gould, NCSE supporter and friend. ncseweb.org/resources/articles/3697_the_list_2_16_2003.asp

NCSE would like to think that after Project Steve, we’ll have seen the last of bogus “scientists doubting evolution” lists, but it’s probably too much to ask. We do hope that at least when such lists are proposed, reporters and other citizens will ask, “but how many Steves are on your list!?”
I guess this prove my theory about Darwinians correct. All the scientists on your link obviously have nothing better to do than make up these lists.
 
I guess this prove my theory about Darwinians correct. All the scientists on your link obviously have nothing better to do than make up these lists.
The scientists had nothing to do with makingup this list. They are busy working in their laboratories to further humankind’s knowledge of the the universe, and in their classrooms to teach this to students. The ID “scientists,” meanwhile – who have yet to offer a single discovery to the world – are sitting around their coffee houses bitterly whining that they can’t get tenure.
 
The scientists had nothing to do with makingup this list. They are busy working in their laboratories to further humankind’s knowledge of the the universe, and in their classrooms to teach this to students. The ID “scientists,” meanwhile – who have yet to offer a single discovery to the world – are sitting around their coffee houses bitterly whining that they can’t get tenure.
My statement was made tounge-in-cheek. By the way none of the scientists that were recorded in Another Chances message claimed to be ID scientists. However, you could look at their credentials and tell they didn’t teach in elementary school.
 
Bear06, Catholic Answers even offers you help in spelling words correctly: when I’m composing a post on my computer, if I misspell a word it appears underlined in red. You will catch most of your misspellings simply by correcting the red-underlined words.

Petrus
Yes but I then have to copy and paste it into another thing to check it. Sorry, not worth my time. Most of us here aren’t so sensitive about obvious overlooking. BTW, did you correct the spelling of your Darwin buddy. He obviously made a slight mental error but it’s hardly the end of the world. At least you could be an equal opportunity spelling snob. 😉
 
Yes but I then have to copy and paste it into another thing to check it. Sorry, not worth my time. Most of us here aren’t so sensitive about obvious overlooking. BTW, did you correct the spelling of your Darwin buddy. He obviously made a slight mental error but it’s hardly the end of the world. At least you could be an equal opportunity spelling snob. 😉
What Darwin buddy? I don’t have a Darwin buddy list.
 
Here is the list of scientists who support evolutionary science. I include only those whose surnames begin with “A.”

Stephen T. Abedon
Associate Professor of Microbiology, Ohio State University
Ph.D.,�Microbiology, University of Arizona
Creator of The Bacteriophage Ecology Group, Home of Phage Ecology and Evolutionary Biology (www.phage.org)
�
Steven G. Ackleson****
Oceanographer, Office of Naval Research
Ph.D., Marine Studies, University of Delaware
�
Stephen A. Adam****
Associate Professor, Department of Cell and Molecular Biology, Feinberg School of Medicine, Northwestern University
Ph.D., Biochemistry, Molecular, and Cell Biology, Northwestern University
�
Steve Adams*****
Vice President, Curl Inc.
Ph.D., Astrophysics, University College London
�
Steven Reid Adams******
Assistant Professor, Department of Biology, University of Central Arkansas
Ph.D., Zoology, Southern Illinois University
�
Steve Adolph******
Professor of Biology, Harvey Mudd College
Ph.D., Zoology, University of Washington
�
Stephen R. Addison*
Associate Professor of Physics, University of Central Arkansas
Ph.D.,�Physics, University of Mississippi
�
Stephen L. Adler
Albert Einstein Professor, School of Natural Sciences, Institute for Advanced Study
Ph.D.,�Physics, Princeton University
Member, National Academy of Sciences
�
Steven K. Akiyama*****
Scientist, Laboratory of Molecular Carcinogenesis, National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, National Institutes of Health
Ph.D., Chemistry, Cornell University
�
Stephen B. Aley
Associate Professor of Biological Sciences, University of Texas, El Paso
Ph.D., Biology, Rockefeller University
�
Stephen C. Alley*
Senior Scientist, Seattle Genetics, Inc.
Ph.D., Chemistry, University of Washington
�
Steve Allison******
Staff scientist, Photonics Group, Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Ph.D., Engineering Physics, University of Virginia
�
Steven I. Altchuler*
Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Mayo Clinic College of Medicine; Consultant in Psychiatry, Mayo Clinic
Ph.D., Nutritional Biochemistry and Metabolism, Massachusetts Institute of Technology; M.D., Baylor College of Medicine
�
Stephen J. Anderson*****
Commercial Officer, U.S. Export Assistance Center, Baltimore, U.S. Department of Commerce
Ph.D.,�Political Science, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
�
Stephen Robert Anderson
Professor of Linguistics and Cognitive Science, Yale University
Ph.D.,�Linguistics, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences
�
Steven C. Anderson******
Emeritus Professor of Biology, University of the Pacific
Ph.D.,�Biology, Stanford University
�
Steven D. Anisman*****
Fellow, Cardiovascular Disease, Worcester Medical Center
M.D., University of Vermont
Diplomate, American Board of Internal Medicine; Member, American College of Cardiology
�
Steven Anschel******
Director, Local Public Health Sales, Netsmart Technologies, Inc.
Ph.D., Zoology, University of Maryland
�
Steve J. Aplin*****
Calorimeter Coordinator, HERA experiment H1, Deutsches Elektronen-Synchrotron
Ph.D., Particle Physics, University of Portsmouth
�
Stephen W. Arch
L. N. Ruben Professor of Biology, Reed College
Ph.D., Biology, University of Chicago
�
Steve Archer****
Professor of Rangeland and Forest Resources, University of Arizona
Ph.D., Rangeland Ecosystem Science, Colorado State University, Ft. Collins
�
J. Steven Arnold*
Medical Director, Intensive Care and Sleep Medicine, St. Mary’s Hospital
Medical Director, Respiratory Care and Sleep Medicine, Decatur Memorial Hospital
M.D.,�Pritzker School of Medicine, University of Chicago
�
Stevan J. Arnold
Professor of Zoology, Oregon State University
Ph.D.,�Zoology, University of Michigan
Past President, Society for the Study of Evolution
�
Steven E. Arnold*****
Assistant Professor of Chemistry, Auburn University, Montgomery
Ph.D.,�Chemistry, Louisiana State University
�
Stephen M. Arthur****
Research Biologist, Alaska Department of Fish and Game
Ph.D.,�Wildlife Biology, University of Maine
�
Steven N. Austad
Professor of Biological Sciences, University of Idaho
Ph.D.,�Zoology?, Purdue University
Author, Why We Age
�
Stephen J. Aves******
Associate Professor of Molecular Biology, University of Exeter
Ph.D., Biochemistry, University of Bristol
�
Stephen Azevedo*
Deputy Division Leader, Electronics Engineering Technologies Division, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Ph.D., Electrical Engineering and Computing Science, University of California, Davis
Again, I have to snicker. While I haven’t gone through the whole list, the last one you gave cracks me up. That’s about at relevent as the gynecologist who believes in the Global Warming crisis. An EE is hardly the expert in the field. If you’re going to count that then I’d have to offer my Nuclear Physicist as proof that Darwinism is wrong. 🤷 Besides that, I know several people who work at LLNL who believe in ID and have trouble with Darwinism.
 
Yes but I then have to copy and paste it into another thing to check it. Sorry, not worth my time. Most of us here aren’t so sensitive about obvious overlooking. )
I understand, and my compulsion comes from teaching in a university where a necessary (but not sufficient) condition for “A” work is that it be flawlessly spelled and be free of grammatical errors and stylistic problems.

What I discover is that there is a correlation between the care with which people compose posts and the cogency of their arguments. Posts that are poorly spelled, badly constructed, and replete with grammatical errors are quite often posts that don’t make enough sense to convince anyone.

Petrus
 
I understand, and my compulsion comes from teaching in a university where a necessary (but not sufficient) condition for “A” work is that it be flawlessly spelled and be free of grammatical errors and stylistic problems.

What I discover is that there is a correlation between the care with which people compose posts and the cogency of their arguments. Posts that are poorly spelled, badly constructed, and replete with grammatical errors are quite often posts that don’t make enough sense to convince anyone.

Petrus
:rolleyes: We’re not turning in term papers. We’re having a discussion. I know plenty of quick typers who are quite well educated and intelligent. Lighten up! 👍
 
drpmjhess said:
I gather from your note, Amy, that you are not a scientist. You might go to your nearest Catholic university biology department and talk with some biologists (priest biologists if you can find any) about how they go about their work. You would quickly learn why a scientifically ignorant charlatan like Ben Stein has zero credibility with scientists, and why virtually all reviews of this movie by educated critics have panned it.
Um… with all due respect, there are three rather serious problems with your rejoinder:
  1. You use fallacies such as ad hominem (e.g. “scientifically ignorant charlatain”), appeal to the gallery (e.g. “virtually all reviews of this movie by educated critics have panned it”) and question-begging (e.g. how do you arrive at your definition of “educated critics”, short of defining it as “anyone not stupid enough to give the time of day to intelligent design”?) in trying to prove your point–which doesn’t quite suffice.
  2. My wife is a Ph.D. geneticist, and she was well aware of the sheer secular bias on this subject (i.e. “the absence of intelligent design is simply a given”, “of course humans developed from lower primates or proto-primates!”, etc.) when she was still active in the field; the predominantly non-theist views of biological academia are quite often held as dogmatically as are any points of the Nicene Creed by a faithful Catholic.
  3. No one has ever presented a credible “non-theistic” explanation of the existence of life, or of matter/energy, for that matter; all attempts (which I’ve seen) all fall into the “infinite regression” problem, or worse (cf. the “life on earth ‘seeded’ by aliens” proposition). That’s one of the key points mentioned in the movie “Expelled”, if I understand correctly (I haven’t yet seen it).
You would no doubt agree that surgeons would be justified in ignoring the rantings of a medically ignorant person who wandered in off the street and began criticizing how they conduct heart surgery. The same is true in biology.
Ad hominems and dismissive rhetoric aside: would the same be true of a biologist (or other practitioner of the “hard sciences”) who presumed to speak (as an ignorant layman) about philosophy, ontology and metaphysics? (Present company excepted; I’m speaking in general, here.)

In Christ,
Brian
 
  1. the predominantly non-theist views of biological academia are quite often held as dogmatically as are any points of the Nicene Creed by a faithful Catholic.
  2. No one has ever presented a credible “non-theistic” explanation of the existence of life, or of matter/energy,
would the same be true of a biologist (or other practitioner of the “hard sciences”) who presumed to speak (as an ignorant layman) about philosophy, ontology and metaphysics?
(1) I quite agree. Dogmatic religious views – theist or atheist – have no place in biological research. Dawkins seems to have departed from his area of competence several books ago.

(2) I don’t personally know any biologists who claim to have a non-theistic explanation of the existence of life or of matter/energy. That lies outside the realm of biology, which investigates how descent with modification can explain species diversification over the course of earth’s history.

(3) You’re quite right – there are pontificators from the realm of [scientific] ontological reductionism who speak where they have no business speaking

Petrus
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top