MOVIES: Deliver Us From Evil

[andzy]

if the church knew that the pope knew about these things and did nothing or just ignored him, why did they elect him as the new pope. I don’t understand that.

I assume you’re talking about the current Pope Benedict XVI and the cardinals electing him.
First, clear majority of child abuses by Catholic clergy happened before even Pope John Paul II’s time. So, I think neither of the two Popes could do much about it.
Second, I don’t know what our current Pope knew and what cardinals knew about what he knew. Therefore I personally do not try too much to figure out these if-s, and don’t blame the Pope for what is only a guess.

 

[littlebit122280]

Well, we’ll never know if he knew anything since the president granted him immunity(sp?) from dealing with the trial. I’m sorry, but if The Vatican asked our president to grant him immunity so that he wouldn’t have to face the trial, something is totally wrong there. It wouldn’t have had to have been a “guess” if he just went to the trial because apparently they were charging him with conspirary or cover up…I’m not about to fastforward that entire tape just to fine out. Basically, it sounds to me like because Benedict is the Pope now, you shouldn’t and can’t question what was going on at the time. Just because of his level in “office”. Honestly, I almost want to consider that abuse of power. Sorry, but that’s just me. Look, I’m not trying to be rude to you or offensive at all. I just find it kind of off that the Vatican would ask the president to grant Benedict immunity from having to face a trial. According to the documentary, outside of John Paul, Ratzinger could have done something about what was going on and didn’t. I don’t know. I’m not trying to argue with you. But, I’m not trying to blame the pope. Yeah, people can only guess. You’ve got that right. The problem is, when somebody finds out that The Vatican stepped in and quite possibly saved him from prosecution, something sounds and looks kind of fishy. There was a part in the documentary where they tried to send a letter to the Pope. At first, they wouldn’t take it. Then, they didn’t even have the decency to answer the letter back. Something is wrong there. I’m sorry. It is though. The people were victimized and it’s like the vatican didn’t even want to look at it. Can you understand why some people might be a little angry?

 

[blessedtoo]

Well, we’ll never know if he knew anything since the president granted him immunity(sp?) from dealing with the trial. I’m sorry, but if The Vatican asked our president to grant him immunity so that he wouldn’t have to face the trial, something is totally wrong there.

Where did you get this information? Please provide a source as I have never heard such a thing.

 

[bobby_bambino]

Does anyone have any information from a Catholic point of view about that film? How accurate it is, etc.? This is a very general query, so any info you have, articles, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[st_lucy]

here is a review of it from the Catholic Christain movie review:

DELIVER US FROM EVIL
DELIVER US FROM EVIL (not rated): Filmmaker Amy Berg has created a harrowing, heartbreaking, dramatically powerful documentary about Father Oliver O’Grady, described on the film’s Web site as “the most notorious pedophile in the history of the Catholic Church.” (Berg assures me personally that everything in the film is documented.)

This Irish-born priest ministered in the Diocese of Stockton, California, for over 20 years before he was finally arrested for rape, sodomy and child abuse. After serving seven years of a 14-year sentence, O’Grady returned to Ireland, where he is free to come and go.

Unbelievably, O’Grady cooperated freely with Berg, offering creepy and chilling testimony. His own words and filmed depositions of Church officials assert that O’Grady’s behavior was known and that little was done to prevent him from continuing his pernicious and devastating activities.

Father Thomas Doyle is a canon lawyer who has been working with victims of clergy sex abuse for many years. The film shows Doyle with a group of victims and their families attempting to deliver a letter to the Vatican about their pain. We share the pain of these good, faithful believers who, unknowingly, allowed a snake into their homes. The most difficult film I have ever watched.

you can get more reviews here;
americancatholic.org/movies/default.asp

 

[Ella]

I’ve just watched this documentary via Netflix online movies. IOW you can watch it on your computer, w/out waiting to get the DVD in the mail.

I recommend it. It is very disturbing. I think those who critisize it need to see it first.

Mahoney should be prosecuted.

 

[michaelmac]

I watched it ages ago and found it awful, And many people agree with you about Mahoney but there are other who should be prosecuted as well

 

[Ella]

Awful in what way, michaelmac?

It IS hard to watch. This situation ripped apart and killed the faith of a beautiful Catholic family.

And it is not perfect. Celibacy is blamed at one point with Fr. Doyle saying it isn’t biblically based (we know the scriptures that it is based on and of course Jesus and St. Paul were celibate). He also makes it clear he doesn’t believe in the True Presence. It made me wish the film had been made by Catholics who would have stayed accurate to the tenets of the Faith. Not doing so weakens the film.

But Fr. Doyle has been in the frontline of this fight for decades. I think he, like the families and victims, has suffered a great harm to his faith from being around this. And I think those who sheltered the pedophiles will answer for the harm to these peoples’ faith, to God.

There is no way, NO WAY it is justice to have O’Grady walking free in his home country, anticipating a Church annuity!

I’d love it if a few folks on here would watch it on Netflix online and join the discussion.

 

[mario_grgic]

You can watch the movie here :

youtube.com/watch?v=lsK6JsvTAwQ

and BBC’s “Sex Crimes and the Vatican”

youtube.com/watch?v=avtpm2UE3Kk

which makes an ever bolder claim that the current pope not only knew about the abuses and did everything to hide them as well, but also institutionalized the secrecy about them at the threat of excommunication.

This is really disturbing. I have been Catholic my whole life, but I am deeply shaken by these.

I know there is sin, and that Satan will try to infiltrate the church. I know there is abuse and I know some priests will be abusive (sexually or otherwise). I do not even want to discuss that. No one can seriously expect to ever prevent an abusive, sick person from becoming a priest (by the way I don’t think God chooses priests as suggested in the movies, God like beacon, calls people to service and some answer the call).

But what is most shocking to me is the cover up, the denial of wrong doing, the moving of offending priests from one parish to another. It seems the first priority of bishops and cardinals and pope himself is “damage control” rather than caring for the flock? How many times did Jesus ask Peter “Do you love me”" and “Feed my sheep”? Is that not the primary mission of the church. To be guardians of faith and truth, and to care for the flock? Something has gone horribly wrong. Why the need for secrecy in God’s church at all? Did Jesus do anything in secret?

Do we have Satan siting in the Peter’s chair? A scary proposition I know. But if the pope indeed knew about abuses, and tried to cover up the scale and seriousness of the scandal what other conclusion can we derive?

 

[Ella]

No, we do not have satan sitting in peters chair. What we do have is a man and men are fallible. Indeed excepting matters of faith and morals the pope is as fallible as any of us.

But Benedict has made a public and private apologies to the victims, on his last visit to the US.

There has been a lot of ‘office politics’ and clerics covering their jobs in the sex abuse crisis in America. It’s terrible that some of these people are still allowed to keep their offices in the Church. I am frankly amazed that there has not been a defrocking of Mahoney. The film shows Mahoney in court saying he ‘couldn’t recall’ any details about O’Grady’s pedophilia, and then we are shown in court (as is he) a letter he wrote in support of O’Grady, and the film shows that O’Grady was shuttled around parishes in a 100 mile radius in California - even appointed pastor of a church, after the hierarchy knew! knew! he was guilty of molesting children! Little girls and boys, even an infant.

 

[mario_grgic]

I know that pope when not speaking officially on the matters of faith is fallible, and I also know about his recent personal apology to the victims. But to me as catholic that is not enough (let alone to the victims, some of which lost faith in God altogether). We need to put checks and balances and procedures in place to ensure that something like that can not happen again. If someone is found guilty of child abuse, church must make sure that such people can no be priests freely (or without supervision of some sort).

Otherwise, we catholics are nothing more than members of an organization that institutionalizes child abuse and a network that hides criminals!

I know church is not a democracy, but this goes so heavily against the teaching of Christ, that we have to do something to heal the wound that the church has experienced (not just hide it), and make sure it does not happen again.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I saw this film also, quite a while ago and it made me furious. Not with God, but with the men who claimed to speak for Him.

Now, I could understand back the 1950’s and early 60’s when knowledge about pedophiles was more limited-people thinking that moving the person away from their “special friend” would solve the problem. However, this continued long past the time when behavioral science experts KNEW that these attractions were not specific to individuals, but would recur again and again. To know that these men would continue to prey upon innocents and to ignore that knowledge was criminal.

I would have loved to see some of these guys in orange jumpsuits paying for what they did.

 

[Ella]

It makes me angry, too. I watched the court scenes with Cardinal Mahoney and he was shifting his eyes and dissimilating… ‘I can’t recall’ writing a letter to O’Grady, ‘I can’t recall’ this and that meaning, he knows he can’t deny knowledge because of the evidence so he’s saying he can’t remember what he knew or did then.

And that monseignur who testified - what was his name? doing the same thing.

IF these were not high-ranking clerics in the Church they would be in jail for letting that monster O’Grady roam around free.

 

[michaelmac]

Ella When you have been a victim your self, I was not abused by a priest, You know the hell the victims go though, The awful part is even though some priests have been defrocked, Non who helped these priests abuse have been given the boot, Some have been given safe jobs and some promoted, You have just had a huge farce in Ireland, The Christian Brothers have been praised about there part in Irish Education, Not one word was said about the thousands upon thousands of children lives they ruined, Many of the children they abused had allready been abused in their own families, They backed this if a child was taken into care, They had to go before a court, When that child left the court they had a criminal recorrd, They have made no effort to get them records recinded, Example 2 year old begging on the strees of Dublin for food because his mother could not feed him, he ended up with a criminal record for that, The Pope has just told the Italian prime minister he cannot be given communion because hes not pure in heart because hes devorced, But people like the cardinal can

 

[Ella]

Ella When you have been a victim your self, I was not abused by a priest, You know the hell the victims go though, The awful part is even though some priests have been defrocked, Non who helped these priests abuse have been given the boot, Some have been given safe jobs and some promoted, You have just had a huge farce in Ireland, The Christian Brothers have been praised about there part in Irish Education, Not one word was said about the thousands upon thousands of children lives they ruined, Many of the children they abused had allready been abused in their own families, They backed this if a child was taken into care, They had to go before a court, When that child left the court they had a criminal recorrd, They have made no effort to get them records recinded, Example 2 year old begging on the strees of Dublin for food because his mother could not feed him, he ended up with a criminal record for that, The Pope has just told the Italian prime minister he cannot be given communion because hes not pure in heart because hes devorced, But people like the cardinal can

I have been a victim but the perpetrator was not a priest.

God knows about these injustices. Every one of them. God is not only mercy but justice.

 

[Cathlotic]

Just watched this documentary. Devil is sitting back and laughing at all of us with faith and those who have lost it as a result of this. I really hope The Pope didn’t know about any of this. The people who were responsible must be brought to justice.

this documentary was shocking!