MOVIES: "Doubt" (contains spoilers)

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Sometimes the Bishops do not see the reviews that are presented as reviewed by the USCCB in their newsletter. There have been several occasions where the Bishops have been upset by reviewers ratings.

If something like this will help you gain clarity or shed some new light on the sexual abuse problems so they wont happen again, then go watch the movie.

As a Catholic who was sexually abused by a priest, I have many mixed emotions about my circumstances. I am devoted to the Catholic Church and all of its teachings. I have just recently started talking about what happened to me. Being able to stand up and say what happened to me without people telling me to be quiet because it is over and done with is cathartic. I hate it when people bash the church for what happened to people like me. I am still part of the church that they are bashing, suing etc. I feel like I’m being victimized twice.

I read a lot of history books when I was a child. I read about the Spanish inquisition. These were people who were Catholics, but not following the will of God. That was how I understood it. When I was molested over a period of about 18 months by a priest, I thought of it in a similar way. I thought that the priest was a bad man who just happened to be Catholic. I knew that what he did to me was not anything the Catholic Church would have condoned.
The Bishop knew what was going on. I have no way to prove it, but he knew something wasn’t right when I answered the rectory phone. The priest who molested me is long dead, but I pray for his soul and for the Bishop’s soul every time I go to mass.

I think that people who have been victimized should have the freedom to speak about what happened to them instead of being hushed and told not to cause scandal. I also think that all victims should realize that these men were weak and sick, which has absolutely nothing to do with the Doctrine and teachings of the Catholic Church. Their sickness and weakness in no way reflects the will of God. It’s just too bad that they didn’t have some other occupation. They were puss postuals on the beautiful Body of Christ.

I hope this doesn’t get me kicked off this forum.:o
If this is way TMI please forgive me.
 
galnextdoor,
why would anyone kick you off the forum? What happened to you was awful, damaging and you have every right to speak about it. You recognize that the abusers and those who shielded them aren’t the Church and that says a lot about you and your faith.

Although the media jumps on priest scandals like dogs on a pork chop, in this area at least there have also been a lot of similar situations in other religious denominations. They also make it to the news. When the worst of the scandals were coming to light here, and the bishop’s letter was being read from pulpits, our pastor made the observation that taking into account the total number of priests and the number of priests accused of abuse, the percentage is only about a quarter of the abuse that takes place among the general population. But the media focus has led people to believe that there’s much more, and that it has to do with celibacy. So it’s a double whammy: the perception is that it’s not just the Catholic clergy that’s bad; celibacy is unnatural and causes people to do awful things.
 
I guess I just thought the subject was taboo.

I think the Catholic Church gets bashed more for what went on because it is a recognizable institution. After all saying that the local town’s Freewill Spiritual Fellowship has a minister that is a pedophile doesn’t create quite the splash that saying a Catholic priest did something. Viewers wouldn’t recognize the minister again if they saw him, but Catholic priests are easily recognizable, which I think makes them an easier to lump together.

As long as this film isn’t blaming the entire church for what happen, then I think it could be an interesting film for someone else to watch.
 
galnextdoor,
oh, maybe you’re right; I wasn’t aware of it being a taboo subject, but maybe it is. If so, it shouldn’t be.

The Church gets bashed primarily because it’s holy and that’s what the world does to holy things, especially when it’s made up of weak, sinful humans. It must be pretty galling in some quarters that the Church is powerfully influential, has lasted 2000 years and seems to be indestructible.
 
I saw it yesterday and loved it. It was intelligent and made me think. What a study in human nature!

And the acting was top notch. Meryl Streep was her usual 10-out-of-10 self. There’s no one alive today who can pull off an expression like Streep can.

If you saw it, what did you think? (Without giving away too much to those who haven’t seen it.)

If you haven’t seen it, do you plan to?
 
…I take it, this “Doubt” is a movie?

Obviously I haven’t seen it, I’ve also not heard about it, but I don’t watch television so I don’t see the trailers for what’s coming out.

So, give us (without spoiling) the basis of Doubt.

By the way, I think Meryl Streep is a FABulous actress!
 
It’s about a nun (Streep) who, going on what she thinks but no evidence, accuses a priest of molesting, or attempting to molest, a boy at the parish school.

If I tell you more than that, you won’t enjoy the movie as much, i think.

It’s really worth seeing.

Almost forgot. The title is “Doubt”.
ForMary said:
…I take it, this “Doubt” is a movie?

Obviously I haven’t seen it, I’ve also not heard about it, but I don’t watch television so I don’t see the trailers for what’s coming out.

So, give us (without spoiling) the basis of Doubt.

By the way, I think Meryl Streep is a FABulous actress!
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I’m glad you posted this… I have wondered about this story since it was a Broadway show - but I didn’t want to see it if it unfairly slammed the Church. Do you think it did that? (I’m guessing no, since you liked it?)
 
yellowbird said:
I’m glad you posted this… I have wondered about this story since it was a Broadway show - but I didn’t want to see it if it unfairly slammed the Church. Do you think it did that? (I’m guessing no, since you liked it?)
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No. I think it was fair and realistic. IMO, it was more about human nature than it was about the Catholic Church as an institution.
 
kalt said:
No. I think it was fair and realistic. IMO, it was more about human nature than it was about the Catholic Church as an institution.
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Well thanks alot kalt… now you’ve got me wanting to forget about my 12 loads of laundry and sticky kitchen floor and instead run off to the movies for a matinee! 😛
 
I saw it yesterday. Wow!

I thought it had possibly one of the most well constructed plots of any movie I have ever seen. (I imagine the play was like that too.)

It was very multi-layered and the characters were all very complex.
 
SMHW said:
I saw it yesterday. Wow!

I thought it had possibly one of the most well constructed plots of any movie I have ever seen. (I imagine the play was like that too.)

It was very multi-layered and the characters were all very complex.
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Really?? You should have called me!! I would have totally gone with you. I think I am going to see it today. I have to dash out the door the minute DH steps in though. LOL Cutting it close.

I have been chomping at the bit to see it. Thanks for the review Kalt, I had a feeling it is more about the humans than the fact it’s based in a parochial school. It looks so GOOD!

So does The Reader, and Resistance, and so does Revolutionary Road. I am a huge fan of Kate Winslet, so I am very excited about all these films starring her are coming out! But yeah, good ole’ Meryl, I can’t wait to see this!!
 
I was very impressed by how well Shanley did as a film director, and I did like the movie a great deal. I still like the play better, though.
 
OK, so I saw the movie today… I’m dying to discuss it - but I don’t want to spoil it for those who haven’t seen it yet…

************* SPOILER ALERT ******************************

Don’t read the rest of this post if you haven’t seen it yet…

So did he or didn’t he do it? And at the end - was she doubting herself - or the Church for moving him around?
 
Spoiler Alert

Don’t read the rest if you haven’t seen the movie.
yellowbird said:
OK, so I saw the movie today… I’m dying to discuss it - but I don’t want to spoil it for those who haven’t seen it yet…

************* SPOILER ALERT ******************************

Don’t read the rest of this post if you haven’t seen it yet…

So did he or didn’t he do it? And at the end - was she doubting herself - or the Church for moving him around?
Click to expand...
I didn’t consider that he hadn’t done it. Hmm. Now you’re making me think.

I think she was doubting herself, her faith.
        • SPOILER POINTS * * * *
          Now I could be wrong, but I thought that the black boy’s (can’t remember his name) worring about being fat reflected the attitude the priest had toward fat people. The priest told the other priests about a conversation he had with a mother of a “fat” girl. He told her that she was the mother and she should tell her daughter that she’s fat. Since he felt responsible for that kid, he told him he was fat. IMO, that’s over the line, even for a mentor. Also, the hug in the hallway. Way too over the top.
His previous post ended badly, and when the nun lied about talking to the nuns at the old parish, the priest went bananas, saying that she should have talked to the pastor.

It could be that the priest was just odd. But in my experience, the people I’ve known IRL who were that kind of odd turned out the be disgusting.

When I made my confirmation, I refused to write a letter to the bishop because he gave me the willies. Not long after he was caught with a young male in a very compromising position.
There was no question about what was going on.

Also, he tried to convince the nun (Streep) that he and she were just alike. What mortal sin was he talking about if not what she was suspecting. Why even bring up mortal sin and confession if you’re not guilty?

And then there was the kids’ mother. She knew that her son was gay, and didn’t seem surprised that something might be going on with the priest.

A priest taking an extraordinary in a loner kid. That just doesn’t sound right to me, especially because the priest wasn’t trying to fix the situation by getting the kid to interact more with the other students.

I liked how Streep’s character didn’t ignore the boys’ reaction to the priest. Instead of chalking it up to fear, she paid attention. She pulled the boy out of the situation, and the other kids wondered what the kid did wrong. In reality, she was helping that kid. I can’t remember now, did she ask him about the priest grabbing his wrist?

When the movie began, it seemed that the priest was the good guy, the accepting, kind, loving person who reflected Jesus’ teaching. In reality, it was the nun who had it right. Even though she was gruff, she dealt with reality and had the kids’ best intersest at heart.

I wonder if she was doubting what she knew to be the church. She was “old school”, and things were changing rapidly. Ball point pens. Egads!! 🙂 She knew what worked, but it seemed that she was the last of a kind. A person out of sync with current ideals. Was she doubting what she thought she knew? Was she wondering if what she thought she knew was wrong or obsolete?

I didn’t get the impression that she was wrong about the priest. But now that you’ve said it, I’m going to give that angle some thought, too.

Kalt
 
Spoiler Alert**

Don’t read the rest if you haven’t seen the movie. (Highlight text to read more clearly)

I think one of the points of the movie was that it’s impossible to tell if the priest did it or not.

As we walked to the car afterward my husband said he thought the priest was probably innocent and I thought he probably did it. But then I remembered this is a movie so there is no answer and the movie was designed to leave the answer undefined. That makes it a better movie.

The people in the movie had doubts about all kinds of things: Catholicism in general, the current authority structure of the Church, love, strictness, sin, forgiveness, guilt, innocence… I think one thing the movie did was to show that Faith and doubt are never too far apart. It also showed how insidious evil can be. The sisters in this movie were left damaged. And they don’t know if it was for doing the right thing or for the wrong.

The characters were constructed so that the less than sympathetic principal (the one from every Catholic school child’s nightmares) was the one truly looking out for the boy. …or maybe she was just a power happy crazy woman. The nice, sweet, pretty eighth grade teacher was unable/unwilling to stand up and protect him. …if in fact there was anything to protect him from.

The characters had all kinds of personal issues that could have but didn’t necessary mean anything: fingernail length, cleanliness views, race, prior marriages, views on the direction the Church should go after Vatican II.
 
KCtheMommy said:
Really?? You should have called me!! I would have totally gone with you. I think I am going to see it today. I have to dash out the door the minute DH steps in though. LOL Cutting it close.
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So did you get to see it?

We only picked it because it was the only movie that we could see and still get home before our company came for dinner. We were very glad afterward!
 
Oh, good. I wondered about this one. I love Meryl Streep and our archdiocesan newspaper gave it a good review, but it’s nice to get raves from people I know.
 
SPOILER ALERT***********

Highlight text to read: (cool trick SMHW!!!👍 )

Wow Kalt ~ you totally saw it differently than I did - that is so weird how the same movie could be interpreted two different ways?!

I saw the Nun as a woman who didn’t really care about the facts - she already had her mind made up that he did it and that’s all there was do it. It was as if she felt she were infallable? She even said that doing what she thought was right meant going against God which is why she felt so distant from Him? And I agreed with Sr. James - it was because he was happy & used a ballpoint pen & sugar - so undiciplined! And she felt he would pull HER down because if he were on the same “level” as the rest of the Parish - accessable etc. - how could she remain so elevated? I totally saw it as a prideful thing.

I thought the Priest was totally innocent - at most he struggled with sinful thoughts and because he was such a great guy, he felt guilty about that. I think when he said there were “things he just couldn’t say” he was refering to something the boy told him in confidence - maybe about being gay?

I think what she did was horrible - she had no proof at all and she didn’t even bother to try to find the truth - she could’ve actually called his previous school and talked to the nuns.

I just felt his expressions were of a person who was totally innocent. Like “Are you KIDDING me?”

And I felt she sinned in trying to destroy Him and seperated herself from God - which is why she now had all kinds of “doubts.”

But… maybe I’m totally wrong? It’s funny because when the movie first ended I thought… Hmm… did he or didn’t he? My teenage son said No - and I turned to the two ladies on the other side of me and said, “Well - did he or didn’t he?” and they both said NO way - he was innocent… and that’s what I was thinking… but now you’ve got ME wondering 😊
 
I saw it and enjoyed it very much. I identified with the idealistic young nun, but then realized - who doesn’t? Even nuns can’t close their eyes to human folly, such as her students goofing off.

How do you do that font that makes the text invisible? Thanks.
 
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