Moving from Theism to Christianity Apologetics

[PoorKnight]

Hey folks, just looking to plug a hole in my ‘game’, if you will.

I’ve been able to show reasons for Theism as opposed to Atheism…

And I’ve been able to show reasons why Catholicism vs. Non-Catholic

However, I feel I have a hole in my game about why Christianity vs. any other stripe of Theism (Muslim, Hindu, Animist… etc).

Secondarily I also feel I’m lacking in showing the inspiration of Sacred Scripture.

What seems to work for folks who have ‘been there done that’ in discussions?

Thanks all,

God Bless

 

[Pieman333272]

The Resurrection of Christ is a good starting argument for Christianity specifically. I recommend reading Mike Licona’s The Resurrection of Jesus or JP Holding’s Defending the Resurrection for info on that.

 

[teenphilo1]

There is an argument that the Catholic Church has survived several persecutions and what some historians consider to be an “apocalyptic” event (the fall of Rome). That and how the Gospels were written within 100 years of the events they covered. I don’t know any other religions that can claim that.

 

[Trebor135]

However, I feel I have a hole in my game about why Christianity vs. any other stripe of Theism (Muslim, Hindu, Animist… etc).

Glenn Miller has begun to look at this important question–this page links to what he’s written so far.

God bless,
T.

 

[1Rich23]

To determine which one of the “religions.” Christianity, Muslim, Hindu, etc are real or that have a real God, try the personal promises of the scriptures of each one and see which has a God that answers. Only the “scriptures” with a real God will provide a response. I did that years ago and only the God of the Bible answered, and He is still answering when I call to Him. I haven’t made a study of all the religions, but I have never heard of any of them that had promises which allow a personal relationship with the god of their religion. Only Christianity has a God who seeks and desires our fellowship so much that He even adopts us into His family as His children when we turn to Him and receive the Spirit of Christ into our hearts.

 

[jochoa]

What seems to work for folks who have ‘been there done that’ in discussions?

Thank you very much for requesting ideas! Please consider the following:

One can know God is Jesus Christ because His words and actions are the only way for man to know how to fulfill the Law of Living.
Simply stated, Jesus Christ let us know and showed us: Embracing the Cross.
From analysis and practice of His actions, reactions, and His Word, one can come to the following understandings:

To Truly Live, one’s relationships and self must experience happiness (contentment to intense joy) without losing peace (freedom from disturbance).

Next recognize that impatience causes disturbance. Therefore to experience freedom from disturbance, one must act and react with patience to maintain and restore peace.
Also recognize, in order to experience contentment when out of it, as well as greater levels of happiness, one must fulfill various wants. The act of fulfilling wants is kindness.

Next, one can develop the following understanding of carrying the cross: Being patient and kind in the face of impatience and meanness for the sake of peace and happiness of others.

Many people carry the cross, however it is Jesus Christ who first told us and demonstrated how we can want to be patient and kind in the face of impatience and meanness for the sake of peace and happiness, and in doing so, not only will others experience peace and happiness, we will too, because we will be fulfilling a want of ours.

The experience of happiness without any loss of peace for all relationships and the self is heavenly.

Therefore, it is Jesus Christ in His embracing of Crucifixion, that shows us the way to taste the experience of heaven while on earth.

And from this, when two or more persons, who are individually dedicated to always freely choosing to be and spread the means to freely be perfectly patient, kind, and motivated with all the body, spirit, thoughts, and will equally towards others and the self, are gathered together in unity, that the society can experience a limitless happiness without anyone ever losing any peace…and this is Heaven, where the physically resurrected body of Jesus is!

 

[EviPolevhia]

Thank you very much for requesting ideas! Please consider the following:

One can know God is Jesus Christ because His words and actions are the only way for man to know how to fulfill the Law of Living.
Simply stated, Jesus Christ let us know and showed us: Embracing the Cross.
From analysis and practice of His actions, reactions, and His Word, one can come to the following understandings:

To Truly Live, one’s relationships and self must experience happiness (contentment to intense joy) without losing peace (freedom from disturbance).

Next recognize that impatience causes disturbance. Therefore to experience freedom from disturbance, one must act and react with patience to maintain and restore peace.
Also recognize, in order to experience contentment when out of it, as well as greater levels of happiness, one must fulfill various wants. The act of fulfilling wants is kindness.

Next, one can develop the following understanding of carrying the cross: Being patient and kind in the face of impatience and meanness for the sake of peace and happiness of others.

Many people carry the cross, however it is Jesus Christ who first told us and demonstrated how we can want to be patient and kind in the face of impatience and meanness for the sake of peace and happiness, and in doing so, not only will others experience peace and happiness, we will too, because we will be fulfilling a want of ours.

The experience of happiness without any loss of peace for all relationships and the self is heavenly.

Therefore, it is Jesus Christ in His embracing of Crucifixion, that shows us the way to taste the experience of heaven while on earth.

And from this, when two or more persons, who are individually dedicated to always freely choosing to be and spread the means to freely be perfectly patient, kind, and motivated with all the body, spirit, thoughts, and will equally towards others and the self, are gathered together in unity, that the society can experience a limitless happiness without anyone ever losing any peace…and this is Heaven, where the physically resurrected body of Jesus is!

I do not understand your post. The words you speak in order to carry weight require Christian faith. I thought this thread was about moving from Theism to Christianity?

 

[benjohnson]

As an previous Agnostic who went from Deism to Christian:

The Christian God is the only one that perfectly mirrors the love found in his created world. He gives of himself like a mother loving a child, or a soldier dying for a civilian. All he asks for is faith. He gives first. He gives completely. Then quietly asks for faith.

Other gods as depicted by other religions only give after being supplicated by meeting their demands or following their rituals.

 

[EviPolevhia]

only give after being supplicated by meeting their demands or following their rituals.

That’s awfully subjective as I know alot of non Christians who say the same thing about Christianity.

 

[jochoa]

I do not understand your post. The words you speak in order to carry weight require Christian faith. I thought this thread was about moving from Theism to Christianity?

Thank you very much for taking the time to consider my perspective. I apologize for the lack of clarity, and would like to try a secondary approach to sharing this concept. Please consider further explanation:

To recognize how Jesus Christ is God, one must first understand the purpose of life or the purpose for God creating us.

Please consider the following concept regarding the purpose of life:
The purpose in living is to try to fulfill various wants/desires. The fulfillment of a want causes an experience ranging from contentment to intense joy. This experience is termed happiness by Google.
While living, when one feels disturbed, one is forced to seek to be free from disturbance. Freedom from disturbance is termed peace by Google.
Therefore, it can be developed that the purpose in living is to experience happiness without losing peace.

Given that one must live in the presence of others, the greater peace and happiness one’s relationships with others experience, the greater peace and happiness one will experience.
Therefore, it can be developed that the purpose in living is to experience happiness without losing any peace in all relationships, including the self.

Given that we all share the same purpose…
OR
Given that God created each one of us with the same purpose…
if we can all share the same foundation/means to fulfill this purpose, the greater peace and happiness the society will experience.
Therefore, it can be developed that the purpose in living is to experience limitless happiness without anyone ever losing any peace. Now when us, God’s creations, can share the same foundation/means as He does, we will be united in the Fullness of Heaven, where the resurrected body of Jesus is, and together will completely fulfill the purpose in living.

Next, one must develop an understanding of the foundation/means to fulfill the purpose in living. At this point, please reconsider my earlier post (#6).

Please recognize that I find in order to move from Theism to Christianity, there must initially be a lack of consideration of God. The reasoning must be founded completely on human attributes because that is what essentially distinguishes the two.

 

[benjohnson]

That’s awfully subjective as I know alot of non Christians who say the same thing about Christianity.

I prefer to stay out of the realm of opinion.

The Catholic Popes have written encyclicals on the saving grace of god and the minimum that believers and non-beleivers need to do have salvation. The Christian god demands nothing, only asks. I’m aware of other religion describes a god as loving and generous upfront. He grants us the freewill to return a small portion of his generosity with faith and only if you have the desire to be in God’s presence.

If you could show me another religion that describes a deity that only asks for intangible faith after he has given you everything, then I’d be obliged.

 

[EviPolevhia]

I prefer to stay out of the realm of opinion.

The Catholic Popes have written encyclicals on the saving grace of god and the minimum that believers and non-beleivers need to do have salvation. The Christian god demands nothing, only asks. I’m aware of other religion describes a god as loving and generous upfront. He grants us the freewill to return a small portion of his generosity with faith and only if you have the desire to be in God’s presence.

If you could show me another religion that describes a deity that only asks for intangible faith after he has given you everything, then I’d be obliged.

It seems to me you keep bouncing back and forth between Christian and Catholic. I’m unsure what you’re talking about because of it. You mention what the Catholic Popes wrote in one sentance, then talk about the Christian God in the next. Protestants follow the Christian God but generally don’t care about the Pope’s encyclicals.

And I’m not even sure Christianity as a whole qualifies as a religion “that describes a deity that only asks for intangible faith after he has given you everything”. Different denominations inside Christianity require other things then Faith at times.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Hey folks, just looking to plug a hole in my ‘game’, if you will.

I’ve been able to show reasons for Theism as opposed to Atheism…

And I’ve been able to show reasons why Catholicism vs. Non-Catholic

However, I feel I have a hole in my game about why Christianity vs. any other stripe of Theism (Muslim, Hindu, Animist… etc).

Secondarily I also feel I’m lacking in showing the inspiration of Sacred Scripture.

What seems to work for folks who have ‘been there done that’ in discussions?

Thanks all,

God Bless

You should trust Christianity over any religion because only in Christianity are there accurate fulfilled prophecies of a coming Messiah. It is only in Christianity that we have absolute truths and accurate eyewitness documents in the Gospels.

Why be Catholic over any other Christian denomination, because it is only in Catholicism can you trace tradition, the Papacy, and the Sacraments to the Bible. Jesus started one church and that was the Catholic Church. Joseph Smith was the founder of Mormonism, Martin Luther started Protestantism etc. With all other non-Catholic Christian denominations somebody other than Jesus started them.

 

[benjohnson]

It seems to me you keep bouncing back and forth between Christian and Catholic.

The original question was “Why the Christian God, and not another god”

I gave a ‘catholic’ answer for how generous the Christian God is because we’re on CAF. The Pope’s writing on the this issue of salvation for Catholics, christians, and non-christains is authoritative and nuanced.

 

[PoorKnight]

Thank you folks,

The idea of Christ being the only one who’s coming was prophesised is big! We can point to the Isaiah scroll in the Dead Sea Scrolls to show many of the prophesies. We can then point to the eye witness accounts of how Christ fufilled them. The Dead Sea Scrolls are very important because they were written B.C. so it eliminates the argument of ‘tampering’ with the prophesies.

Anyone have any ideas on how to approach the topic of showing inspiration of Scripture without using Scripture?

Thank you all, sorry for the delay in my reply,

God Bless

 

[jochoa]

Anyone have any ideas on how to approach the topic of showing inspiration of Scripture without using Scripture?

What do you mean by inspiration? Are you referring to the purpose of Scripture, that It is God speaking through men, or some other concept?

 

[PoorKnight]

What do you mean by inspiration? Are you referring to the purpose of Scripture, that It is God speaking through men, or some other concept?

I guess the question is how to approach Sacred Scripture with someone who doesn’t beleive it is the inspired Word of God?

To answer the comment, “yeah I suppose Jesus existed but there are not any reasons to believe that the Bible tells about Jesus’ life or that it’s true”…

 

[sjh331]

One of the major reasons I believe in Christianity as opposed to any other faith is that it’s one of the only major faiths that believes in a real, verifiable, historical event as its major event. Most other religions hinge on one person’s vision or series of visions, and that’s just not verifiable. One can obviously evaluate whether those religions have changed people, changed cultures, moved people, etc. But people are “moved” by all sorts of things.

That is, I’m reluctant to believe in a religion that boils down to (and no offense is intended here) one person saying, “God told me the following…”. Without the Crucifixion and Resurrection, Christianity is nothing, and both the Crucifixion and the Resurrection are real events that either happened or didn’t.

I agree that it’s difficult to talk much about who Christ was without the Gospels, but an unbiased historian would hardly be justified in throwing away the Gospels. They are, in fact, semi-independent accounts written within a hundred years of the events in question. Historians do use religious literature for historical details, if it has proven to be accurate in the past. They don’t necessarily believe in the Greek gods, but they do believe that the Trojan war happened and that there is some historical validity to the Iliad.
In the same way, even people who don’t believe in Jesus can trust that the Gospels have some historical validity. It does help that the major events in Christ’s life are mentioned in other sources. (I’ve compiled some of the major sources here: penguinmusing.blogspot.com/2011/02/deeper-story-or-what-can-we-know-about.html. Not meaning to self-promote; I just don’t feel like retyping it all.)

From all this, we can think about what happened to this person Jesus and try to understand why large numbers of his disciples went to their violent, bloody deaths for the belief that he had physically risen from the dead and was God. (Since I had already accepted that there was a God, a supernatural event becomes a reasonable explanation, especially since this sort of happening had been foretold, and from there it all starts to fall into place.)

But the important point is that this sort of analysis can’t happen in most other religions. No one else was there when Mohammed received his revelations or when Buddha achieved enlightenment. (Even if hundreds of people had been there to watch, they still would have no way to know what was going on in the sage’s head.) But plenty of people were there when Jesus Christ died, and plenty of people were there when his followers died claiming he had risen from the dead and plenty of people saw when the Jewish and Roman authorities conspicuously didn’t just produce Christ’s body and prove them all wrong and conspicuously did continue to kill Christians and hem and haw about it for the next few (hundred) years. I realize this reasoning may not be convincing to everyone, but thoughts along these lines are perhaps the biggest reason I’m Christian instead of Hindu.

tl:dr - Public events are verifiable. Private events are not.

 

[jochoa]

I guess the question is how to approach Sacred Scripture with someone who doesn’t beleive it is the inspired Word of God?

To answer the comment, “yeah I suppose Jesus existed but there are not any reasons to believe that the Bible tells about Jesus’ life or that it’s true”…

I apologize for missing your reply. However, I would like to share a purpose which demonstrates how the bible is literal, and a concept to validate the Inspired Word of God. Please consider the following concepts:

To recognize how Jesus is God and the Bible is the Literal Story of Creation, find the solution to the following problem: How do you create a True Friend, given you are the only physical being and thing to exist?

The method I use to approach this is to consider various aspects of True Friendship, then I ponder what is required to create that experience.

For example:
One aspect of a true friend is that s/he freely chooses to be with you. So if you are the only physical thing to exist, how do you create a friend, who can freely choose to be with you?

Solution: You must create a place for you to reside and a place for your friend to reside, until your friend freely chooses to be with you.

This can be gracefully stated as: In the beginning God created heaven and earth.

Regarding the Inspired Word of God:
Given the following:
God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
His Word is Love
His Word was physically written by Man
His Word was inspired by the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is in Man

We can deduce the following:
Man, free-willed and ignorant, was inspired by Love, or Man wanted to become Love.
Therefore, the Bible is the Story of how free-willed and ignorant man became Love, or the Bible is the Story of the Inspiration of Love for the Holy Spirit within Man.

 

[danserr]

Thank you folks,

The idea of Christ being the only one who’s coming was prophesised is big! We can point to the Isaiah scroll in the Dead Sea Scrolls to show many of the prophesies. We can then point to the eye witness accounts of how Christ fufilled them. The Dead Sea Scrolls are very important because they were written B.C. so it eliminates the argument of ‘tampering’ with the prophesies.

Anyone have any ideas on how to approach the topic of showing inspiration of Scripture without using Scripture?

Thank you all, sorry for the delay in my reply,

God Bless

The best way to show that the scriptures are inspired is with historical evidence for the Resurrection (as in the first reply to your post). This treats the sources as non-inspired regular historical documents and establishes the Resurrection on that basis. Once a person accepts the Resurrection, then there is not really much reason to deny biblical inspiration.