Moving on after porn

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It seems to me that your husband is obviously addicted to porn and has an alcohol problem.
One of the signs of a problem is the mere fact that it’s a problem. Are you talking about this with him, arguing, and having disruption to the family? Yes.
If it’s a problem for you, then it’s a problem. A problem is a problem.

I’ve been there on the bad side. It’s always someone else’s fault. It’s never the perp’s problem, it’s always someone else’s. The perp won’t admit that it’s a problem, cause if he admits it’s a problem, then the problem needs to be solved. That would be a lot of hard work.
Excuses:
“I have too much stress. I work so hard to provide, I need to relax. You don’t give me affection. You nag me.
If you only did this…then I wouldn’t run to porn.”
Nonsense. As long as he looks at porn, **he will never be satisfied **with Godly marital intimacy. Porn destroys intimacy. He is in bed with Satan’s demons, and nothing merely human is going to satisfy him (and I’m not exaggerating).

Don’t live in denial that you have a problem.
It is a problem. Pornography can and will destroy your husband, given enough time. And he’s not the only victim. You will suffer, and your children will suffer. They will. I’ve been there, and fortunately made it back by the grace of God. Attaining purity is enormously hard work and requires time and patience.

One thing that started me back was my wife stuck her finger in my chest and said:
“Zero tolerance in this house for that sh-t. Zero. If you want that sh-t instead of your family, you get an apartment. Not in my house with my children”.
I remember that chat verbatim, very well.

Sometimes we can’t change what others do, we can only change ourselves.
 
Clem, your post makes absolutely no sense, and is frankly embarrassing.

You write that “One of the signs of a problem is the mere fact that it’s a problem.”

–Huh?

Further, it is thoughtless, foolish, and lacks evidentiary support, for you to declare husband to “obviously” be porn addicted, particularly given how closely OP is following this thread and seems to be looking to have him be an addict:

–You’ve never met him;
–We have no basis to conclude that you are qualified to render this opinion;
–You have nothing to base this on other than an anonymous internet forum;
–His own wife says he’s used porn twice in 10 years(!).
–By your (il)logic, any time there is a “problem” there is an addiction.
 
PolarGuy said:
Clem, your post makes absolutely no sense, and is frankly embarrassing.

You write that “One of the signs of a problem is the mere fact that it’s a problem.”

–Huh?

Further, it is thoughtless, foolish, and lacks evidentiary support, for you to declare husband to “obviously” be porn addicted, particularly given how closely OP is following this thread and seems to be looking to have him be an addict:

–You’ve never met him;
–We have no basis to conclude that you are qualified to render this opinion;
–You have nothing to base this on other than an anonymous internet forum;
–His own wife says he’s used porn twice in 10 years(!).
–By your (il)logic, any time there is a “problem” there is an addiction.
Click to expand...
You are blind.
 
PolarGuy said:
I also think what OP has done is say, “I want my husband to be publicly remorseful by going to counseling and admitting his awful deeds to me and others, but in the meantime – and maybe if he does anyway - I will keep laying down ultimatums; ‘reacting as all wives would,’ and venting with other women about how he has lost my trust forever and saying how I could have done so much better.”
Click to expand...
That interpretation is your perception of some kind of vengeful judgment on her part. It doesn’t recognise or acknowledge true, legitimate, soul destroying hurt. A man is procuring images of a young women and lusting after them with physical stimulation. A woman feels that role is hers and it esteems her that he lives that part of his being only for her. This type of man doesn’t give his wife this esteem.

I read the OPs posts through the female perspective of his betrayal of marriage vows and calousness towards her experience. Her reactions ie the ultimatums aren’t a power thing. It’s not a competition. They help her feel that she has the capacity to escape the hurt of betrayal and permanent relegation to just being another bit of equipment in his house.
 
clem456 said:
It seems to me that your husband is obviously addicted to porn and has an alcohol problem.
One of the signs of a problem is the mere fact that it’s a problem. Are you talking about this with him, arguing, and having disruption to the family? Yes.
If it’s a problem for you, then it’s a problem. A problem is a problem.

I’ve been there on the bad side. It’s always someone else’s fault. It’s never the perp’s problem, it’s always someone else’s. The perp won’t admit that it’s a problem, cause if he admits it’s a problem, then the problem needs to be solved. That would be a lot of hard work.
Excuses:
“I have too much stress. I work so hard to provide, I need to relax. You don’t give me affection. You nag me.
If you only did this…then I wouldn’t run to porn.”
Nonsense. As long as he looks at porn, **he will never be satisfied **with Godly marital intimacy. Porn destroys intimacy. He is in bed with Satan’s demons, and nothing merely human is going to satisfy him (and I’m not exaggerating).

Don’t live in denial that you have a problem.
It is a problem. Pornography can and will destroy your husband, given enough time. And he’s not the only victim. You will suffer, and your children will suffer. They will. I’ve been there, and fortunately made it back by the grace of God. Attaining purity is enormously hard work and requires time and patience.

One thing that started me back was my wife stuck her finger in my chest and said:
“Zero tolerance in this house for that sh-t. Zero. If you want that sh-t instead of your family, you get an apartment. Not in my house with my children”.
I remember that chat verbatim, very well.

Sometimes we can’t change what others do, we can only change ourselves.
Click to expand...
Wow, great post from someone who has been there and back. Experience counts. Thanks, Clem. 👍
 
Clem:

Your “reasoning” aka namecalling impresses no one save the ignorant.
 
Eliza10 said:
This is not really much of an answer to your question, but, I think you will be interested in this recent article posted at Catholic Answers: [“The Widely Known Secret of Pornography” by Devin Rose.](http://www.catholic.com/blog/devin-rose/the-widely-known-secret-of-pornography [URL="http://www.catholic.com/blog/devin-rose/the-widely-known-secret-of-pornography)
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An excellent and relevant addition to the discussion, Eliza.

I couldn’t connect to your link but this one might be better.

catholic.com/blog/devin-rose/the-widely-known-secret-of-pornography
 
Well I never really thought this would get this crazy. Thanks for the links I will definitely check them out later, after I defend myself a bit!!

I have never ever ever suggested public humiliation. That’s ridiculous. The fact that this problem exists is humiliating to me, why would I want everybody to know? That’s why I’m here posting, not sitting around Christmas dinner telling everyone.

What I was asking of him was to make some steps without me doing all of the leg work. So far I have been the one to find articles and to have him read things and to initiate conversations with him into suggest confession and other things like that. He has made no stops on his own that show me he sees that this is a problem. I would love it if he would seek counsel with a pastor or a close friend or a counselor or go with me to a retreat, none of those are “public.”

And I won’t retract my ultimatums because I don’t want or deserve to have to live with this. I also never said he was addicted. I truly honestly hope he’s not. If he’s telling the truth, which I’d like to believe, then he’s not a porn addict and it should be easy for him to stop.

Frankly I’m quite appalled by polar guy’s thinking that I’m blowing his use of porrn out of proportion because I only know it happened twice in a decade. He admitted it was becoming regularly since he allegedly started. He knew the hurt it would cause this time and chose to do it anyway. I refuse to take the blame for that.

And for the record, I’ll repeat myself again–I haven’t brought this up at all in almost a week with him. I am attempting to let sleeping dogs lie. So please take your advice and let it go!
 
clem456 said:
It seems to me that your husband is obviously addicted to porn and has an alcohol problem.
One of the signs of a problem is the mere fact that it’s a problem. Are you talking about this with him, arguing, and having disruption to the family? Yes.
If it’s a problem for you, then it’s a problem. A problem is a problem.

I’ve been there on the bad side. It’s always someone else’s fault. It’s never the perp’s problem, it’s always someone else’s. The perp won’t admit that it’s a problem, cause if he admits it’s a problem, then the problem needs to be solved. That would be a lot of hard work.
Excuses:
“I have too much stress. I work so hard to provide, I need to relax. You don’t give me affection. You nag me.
If you only did this…then I wouldn’t run to porn.”
Nonsense. As long as he looks at porn, **he will never be satisfied **with Godly marital intimacy. Porn destroys intimacy. He is in bed with Satan’s demons, and nothing merely human is going to satisfy him (and I’m not exaggerating).

Don’t live in denial that you have a problem.
It is a problem. Pornography can and will destroy your husband, given enough time. And he’s not the only victim. You will suffer, and your children will suffer. They will. I’ve been there, and fortunately made it back by the grace of God. Attaining purity is enormously hard work and requires time and patience.

One thing that started me back was my wife stuck her finger in my chest and said:
“Zero tolerance in this house for that sh-t. Zero. If you want that sh-t instead of your family, you get an apartment. Not in my house with my children”.
I remember that chat verbatim, very well.

Sometimes we can’t change what others do, we can only change ourselves.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this, it makes a lot of sense. It also gives me some hope that this is going to end up behind us. I think he, if nothing else, sees how serious I am now. Zero tolerance is pretty much what I said too. I can’t and won’t share him sexually with anyone and that includes girls in these pictures and videos and other fantasies.
 
LongingSoul said:
That interpretation is your perception of some kind of vengeful judgment on her part. It doesn’t recognise or acknowledge true, legitimate, soul destroying hurt. A man is procuring images of a young women and lusting after them with physical stimulation. A woman feels that role is hers and it esteems her that he lives that part of his being only for her. This type of man doesn’t give his wife this esteem.

I read the OPs posts through the female perspective of his betrayal of marriage vows and calousness towards her experience. Her reactions ie the ultimatums aren’t a power thing. It’s not a competition. They help her feel that she has the capacity to escape the hurt of betrayal and permanent relegation to just being another bit of equipment in his house.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Thank you.
 
clem456 said:
…
Don’t live in denial that you have a problem…

…One thing that started me back was my wife stuck her finger in my chest and said:
“Zero tolerance in this house for that sh-t. Zero. If you want that sh-t instead of your family, you get an apartment. Not in my house with my children”.
I remember that chat verbatim, very well.

Sometimes we can’t change what others do, we can only change ourselves.
Click to expand...
I am sure this is not news to you, but I just want to say denial is a natural defense mechanism, and faced with the expectation that one must do something that seems IMPOSSIBLE - stop an addiction stronger than cocaine (I’ve heard this said of porn) - its natural to resort to denial because of basic human self-preservation.

A ex-addict I know has a t-shirt that “Denial is not just a river in Egypt.” Those folks know all about denial.

I wonder if you felt some relief when your wife spoke reality strongly?

Because I think of my denial. I had always thought my first long attempt at marraige, my forever-vow, would be salvageable, in spite of the realities I faced. Because I married forever, for better or worse. And that certainly at least God would do a miracle to save it. Having diligently done all I could, I was willing to wait for God to act. I never for once imagined myself talking to a divorce lawyer, but, one day, this was my new reality. There I was at another meeting with my divorce lawyer, and I kept saying, 'I can’t believe this is happening. I can’t believe this is happening." I guess that wasn’t conducive to the business at hand. But, I was *stuck *there. So my lawyer banged his fist on the desk and shouted, "Well it *IS *happening, so you’d BETTER BELIEVE IT!".

Besides the shock at his shouting at me, I remember feeling a sense of relief at hearing the TRUTH stated. Because the pull to remain where I had lived the previous decade+ was strong, and that place was DENIAL. But I needed to get out of that and into reality so I could deal with reality.

So I did not mind the rude delivery when it was the truth he was stating which I was barred form seeing because of deeply-rooted denial. I needed to get with the* truth, *because the truth sets you free.

Anyway, that’s my experience with denial and facing reality. There is a bit of relief in it. I wonder if you felt that, Clem?
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.
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Farmerswife27 said:
Exactly. Thank you.
Click to expand...
clem456 said:
It seems to me that your husband is obviously addicted to porn and has an alcohol problem.
One of the signs of a problem is the mere fact that it’s a problem. Are you talking about this with him, arguing, and having disruption to the family? Yes.
If it’s a problem for you, then it’s a problem. A problem is a problem.

I’ve been there on the bad side. It’s always someone else’s fault. It’s never the perp’s problem, it’s always someone else’s. The perp won’t admit that it’s a problem, cause if he admits it’s a problem, then the problem needs to be solved. That would be a lot of hard work.
Excuses:
“I have too much stress. I work so hard to provide, I need to relax. You don’t give me affection. You nag me.
If you only did this…then I wouldn’t run to porn.”
Nonsense. As long as he looks at porn, **he will never be satisfied **with Godly marital intimacy. Porn destroys intimacy. He is in bed with Satan’s demons, and nothing merely human is going to satisfy him (and I’m not exaggerating).

Don’t live in denial that you have a problem.
It is a problem. Pornography can and will destroy your husband, given enough time. And he’s not the only victim. You will suffer, and your children will suffer. They will. I’ve been there, and fortunately made it back by the grace of God. Attaining purity is enormously hard work and requires time and patience.

One thing that started me back was my wife stuck her finger in my chest and said:
“Zero tolerance in this house for that sh-t. Zero. If you want that sh-t instead of your family, you get an apartment. Not in my house with my children”.
I remember that chat verbatim, very well.

Sometimes we can’t change what others do, we can only change ourselves.
Click to expand...
THIS!!!

The pink highlighted portion is what I hear from my husband EVERY time we get anywhere near the subject. Even just talking about some parenting decision gets twisted into how our marriage sucks and how he’s leaving me as soon as possible. Those words alone tell me that he’s addicted, and not willing to do what it takes to resolve it. Meanwhile, I’m supposed to just ‘lie back and think of England’? NOPE. Did that for 10+ years. Didn’t help him stop his sinning, and it certainly didn’t help me or our marriage.
 
Sugabee43 said:
THIS!!!

The pink highlighted portion is what I hear from my husband EVERY time we get anywhere near the subject. Even just talking about some parenting decision gets twisted into how our marriage sucks and how he’s leaving me as soon as possible. Those words alone tell me that he’s addicted, and not willing to do what it takes to resolve it. Meanwhile, I’m supposed to just ‘lie back and think of England’? NOPE. Did that for 10+ years. Didn’t help him stop his sinning, and it certainly didn’t help me or our marriage.
Click to expand...
Aside from any other consideration, if he’s saying that he’s going to leave you ASAP then risking adding another child that he may or may not support to the mix could be a serious concern.

I’m sorry. 😦 I have friends whose husbands are addicted to porn, and it’s really rough. At least (?) in one of their cases, they don’t really have to worry much about kids because he’d rather watch porn than have sex. Ghastly situation.
 
UbiCaritas said:
Aside from any other consideration, if he’s saying that he’s going to leave you ASAP then risking adding another child that he may or may not support to the mix could be a serious concern.

I’m sorry. 😦 I have friends whose husbands are addicted to porn, and it’s really rough. At least (?) in one of their cases, they don’t really have to worry much about kids because he’d rather watch porn than have sex. Ghastly situation.
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Thanks for the advice, but there’s no worries of another child. I had a total hysterectomy a while back. 😉 And yes, at this point he prefers the porn because our marriage is “too much work” (actually has said that more than once). Ghastly is correct. Certainly not what I imagined!
 
Eliza10 said:
I am sure this is not news to you, but I just want to say denial is a natural defense mechanism, and faced with the expectation that one must do something that seems IMPOSSIBLE - stop an addiction stronger than cocaine (I’ve heard this said of porn) - its natural to resort to denial because of basic human self-preservation.

A ex-addict I know has a t-shirt that “Denial is not just a river in Egypt.” Those folks know all about denial.

I wonder if you felt some relief when your wife spoke reality strongly?

Because I think of my denial. I had always thought my first long attempt at marraige, my forever-vow, would be salvageable, in spite of the realities I faced. Because I married forever, for better or worse. And that certainly at least God would do a miracle to save it. Having diligently done all I could, I was willing to wait for God to act. I never for once imagined myself talking to a divorce lawyer, but, one day, this was my new reality. There I was at another meeting with my divorce lawyer, and I kept saying, 'I can’t believe this is happening. I can’t believe this is happening." I guess that wasn’t conducive to the business at hand. But, I was *stuck *there. So my lawyer banged his fist on the desk and shouted, "Well it *IS *happening, so you’d BETTER BELIEVE IT!".

Besides the shock at his shouting at me, I remember feeling a sense of relief at hearing the TRUTH stated. Because the pull to remain where I had lived the previous decade+ was strong, and that place was DENIAL. But I needed to get out of that and into reality so I could deal with reality.

So I did not mind the rude delivery when it was the truth he was stating which I was barred form seeing because of deeply-rooted denial. I needed to get with the* truth, *because the truth sets you free.

Anyway, that’s my experience with denial and facing reality. There is a bit of relief in it. I wonder if you felt that, Clem?
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Click to expand...
It is a relief just to begin to move, rather than be stuck in one place with no movement. But that relief is temporary, then the work of conversion must begin. Lust is always around, and I’m sure everyone backslides occasionally. But if you’re going to move forward, zero tolerance has to be the starting point.

Their is hope and healing. It takes time and patience. Our marriage has healed and intimacy is restored. And the work is ongoing.
 
I’m trying to fast from posting so I want to say one more thing because I think it’s important.

Pornography is a serious serious issue. It thrives because we dance around with it. “boys will be boys”. “no one get’s hurt”. Nonsense, There is a study out that interviewed serial murderers. I forget who did it but you can google it. You can probably guess the one habit they all had in common. Pornography is an absolutely evil life destroying thing,.

It’s shiny and glamorous and enticing etc…but at the bottom of the pit, is the bottom of the pit. And it’s a very hard landing when marriages are broken up, children grow up with spiritually absent fathers and learn these habits from us.

So think about your kids if your wife is not incentive enough.
I can guarantee any man reading this, if you think your son has never seen you viewing, and so you assume he does not know you view and will not pick up your evil, you are sadly mistaken.
You might think you are hiding the habit, but you cannot hide who you are. Even if your son does not see you view, the evil you bring into your family will exert itself. You are messing with powers that will overwhelm you. The evil you are dealing with does not need something so obvious as being caught, to work it’s evil. It’s just like a systemic infection. It might not have visible sores, but is highly contagious nonetheless.
 
clem456 said:
I’m trying to fast from posting so I want to say one more thing because I think it’s important.

Pornography is a serious serious issue. It thrives because we dance around with it. “boys will be boys”. “no one get’s hurt”. Nonsense, There is a study out that interviewed serial murderers. I forget who did it but you can google it. You can probably guess the one habit they all had in common. Pornography is an absolutely evil life destroying thing,.

It’s shiny and glamorous and enticing etc…but at the bottom of the pit, is the bottom of the pit. And it’s a very hard landing when marriages are broken up, children grow up with spiritually absent fathers and learn these habits from us.

So think about your kids if your wife is not incentive enough.
I can guarantee any man reading this, if you think your son has never seen you viewing, and so you assume he does not know you view and will not pick up your evil, you are sadly mistaken.
You might think you are hiding the habit, but you cannot hide who you are. Even if your son does not see you view, the evil you bring into your family will exert itself. You are messing with powers that will overwhelm you. The evil you are dealing with does not need something so obvious as being caught, to work it’s evil. It’s just like a systemic infection. It might not have visible sores, but is highly contagious nonetheless.
Click to expand...
OH, how I wish my husband could read this!! This brings tears to my eyes, because of the thought of our THREE sons… all or some who could/did/may have walked in on him!! And you are so right, Clem, about the evil being brought into our family. :signofcross::sad_yes: I don’t know if it even occurs to him; the damage he’s doing. Maybe deep down it does.
Thank you so much for your insights, Clem. I know you probably won’t read this, since you’re fasting, but I will pray a prayer of thanksgiving for you and your battles.
 
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