Moving the Tabernacle

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Coemgenus_O

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Can anyone explain to me why it was recommended after the Second Vatican Council that the Tabernacle be moved away from the center of the church? I’m really looking for a theological explanation; isn’t the Real Presence more important than anything else that goes on in a church?
 
The Benedictines have had the Tabernacle off to the side or in a different chapel since their foundation in 529.

The Tabernacle being placed in the middle of the church started due to Francis, who borrowed the idea from Muslims. He liked it for the same reasons you mentioned, and also the practical ones; the churches/chapels he and his men ran were tiny. This was in 1209.

So, ironically enough, the Tabernacle being in the middle of the church was at one point a “modern invention” which caught on. One could say it being moved away from the middle is actually a return to tradition.

That said, I’m sure there’s some folks who decided to change up church buildings by throwing the baby out with the bath water. However this goes to show that even in the process of trying to do things “different”, they wound up still doing something traditional.
 
Coemgenus_O said:
; isn’t the Real Presence more important than anything else that goes on in a church?
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No, Holy Mass is the most important thing that goes on in church!

Without the Holy Mass, there wouldn’t be any Real Presence.
 
Now with 100% more vocation!
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:rotfl:

I believe that the Second Vatican Council was responsible for the sinking of the Titanic. And for original sin. And kosher pizza.

-Tim-
 
Now with 100% more vocation!
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You lost me, Timothy H until I did a **Ctrl F **to find it. :whacky: If anybody else is confused, thinking the moderator removed a post or something, it is in Melchior’s profile on the left side for “religion.”
 
Melchior said:
The Benedictines have had the Tabernacle off to the side or in a different chapel since their foundation in 529.

The Tabernacle being placed in the middle of the church started due to Francis, who borrowed the idea from Muslims. He liked it for the same reasons you mentioned, and also the practical ones; the churches/chapels he and his men ran were tiny. This was in 1209.

So, ironically enough, the Tabernacle being in the middle of the church was at one point a “modern invention” which caught on. One could say it being moved away from the middle is actually a return to tradition.

That said, I’m sure there’s some folks who decided to change up church buildings by throwing the baby out with the bath water. However this goes to show that even in the process of trying to do things “different”, they wound up still doing something traditional.
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How exactly did St. Francis borrow the idea of placing the tabernacle in the centre of the Church from the Muslims?
 
Perhaps the Tabernacle was moved so that the Priest’s back wouldn’t be to it while he was celebrating Mass. Some churches I’ve been in have the tabernacle off to the side in a chapel of its own, for private veneration, like St Peter’s in Rome.
 
Theophorus said:
How exactly did St. Francis borrow the idea of placing the tabernacle in the centre of the Church from the Muslims?
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I read in a book awhile back that he lifted the idea from them based off of some of their views and practices. Mind you, I’ve also read that he got the idea from visiting Jewish synagogues.

Brother JR can probably chime in and correct me on this.

EDIT:

From the man himself (via CAF Search): The same thing happened with the tabernacle. We do all of this hollering about the tabernacle being moved to the side. The truth was that it was always on the side. Francis saw it in the center while visiting the Jewish synagogues in Jerusalem. Seeing as this was a biblical custom and seeing as his chapels were very small, this was the perfect solution. The friars and nuns could have their small chapels and still have adoration by placing the tabernacle on a pedestal on the front wall directly behind the altar of sacrifice. He knew that in ancient times they had hung a dove over the altar of sacrifice and placed the Blessed Sacrament in the belly of the dove. Later, the Benedictines would move it to a side chapel adjacent to the sanctuary. This practice caught on all over Europe.

A mea coupla on my part, it seems the initial book I read was wrong Don’t I feel stupid with zero credibility!

😊:mad:
 
I like it off to the side in my church.

It is close enough to the steps leading into the sanctuary where one can climb only the first two steps and touch it. Many do so after Mass in the most reverent way, pausing to pray for a moment and reaching out to just touch its base.

During confession, there is usually a pad to kneel on placed on the second step, right in front of the tabernacle. Many do their pennance right there, two feet away from Jesus in repose. I’ve seen one man kneeling in front of it crying.

I like the fact that one can be in proximity to it. It makes me shiver to just walk near it sometimes when I altar serve.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
:rotfl:

I believe that the Second Vatican Council was responsible for the sinking of the Titanic. And for original sin. And kosher pizza.

-Tim-
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The unfortunate part with your post that there are too many willing to jump on the " Vatican II is responsible for…" bandwagon

:eek:
 
I normally go to Mass at the conventual chapel of a Benedictine monastery. True to tradition the tabernacle is in a side chapel. It is a very silent, very reverential and very beautiful place to pray and adore in silence. The tabernacle is solid marble with brass fittings and trim, encased in the wall. The wall separates the monk’s side in the enclosure and the laity’s side outside the enclosure. It has a brass and marble door on each side. There is a skylight that focuses natural light on the wall.

It’s my favorite place to pray and adore.
 
I say, if something is good enough for the Seraphic Patriarch, St. Francis, then it is good enough for the rest of us.
 
scott122 said:
Perhaps the Tabernacle was moved so that the Priest’s back wouldn’t be to it while he was celebrating Mass. Some churches I’ve been in have the tabernacle off to the side in a chapel of its own, for private veneration, like St Peter’s in Rome.
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Cathedrals are a different issue because of the great deal of traffic they receive. Nowadays it’s tourists, in the old days it was pilgrims and markets.

Where trafiic is heavy, it is better to have the Tabernacle in a side chapel, to avoid disrespect by those who don’t know better, or don’t care.

This doesn’t really apply to most parish churches.

God Bless
 
Eh, I think either way can be done well, but I think it is overall easier in most parish structures to put the tabernacle in the middle of the sanctuary.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Eh, I think either way can be done well, but I think it is overall easier in most parish structures to put the tabernacle in the middle of the sanctuary.
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True, most churches don’t have side chapels.

Also, when Mass is celebrated ad orientum, as is the ancient tradition of the Church, it makes lots of sense to have the priest facing Christ in the Tabernacle, as he prays to Him.

God Bless
 
bilop said:
True, most churches don’t have side chapels.

Also, when Mass is celebrated ad orientum, as is the ancient tradition of the Church, it makes lots of sense to have the priest facing Christ in the Tabernacle, as he prays to Him.

God Bless
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Surely the prayers of the Mass are addressed to the Father?
 
paperwight66 said:
Surely the prayers of the Mass are addressed to the Father?
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Going by the EF, some explicitly address the Father, some explicitly address Christ, some just address “God” or “Lord”.

In any case, where one of the Trinity is present, so are the other two. When we pray to one, we pray to all.

God Bless
 
bilop said:
Going by the EF, some explicitly address the Father, some explicitly address Christ, some just address “God” or “Lord”.

In any case, where one of the Trinity is present, so are the other two. When we pray to one, we pray to all.

God Bless
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As far as I know, all prayer in the Mass is addressed to the Father, through the Son and in the Holy Spirit. Except maybe the Kyrie, which is litanic.
 
=Coemgenus O;10062920]Can anyone explain to me why it was recommended after the Second Vatican Council that the Tabernacle be moved away from the center of the church? I’m really looking for a theological explanation; isn’t the Real Presence more important than anything else that goes on in a church?
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YES! Because it is God! Amen :rolleyes:
 
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