Moving to China?

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China has a lot great things and a lot of not so great things. It’s a fascinating country both historically and modern. The primary things I would worry about is the pollution. It can be horrific and make LA look crystal clear. There is a huge expat community in Shanghai, so get involved from Day 1, they will help you get settled and in the know about the neighborhoods quickly. I also strongly recommend that you watch China Uncensored on You Tube.

As far as practicing your faith is concerned, you can go to a state-approved parish. St. Joseph’s is definitely English speaking, but there are several parishes in the city. The consequences of going to an underground one are not worth it for you or your family.

Best of luck with your move and life in China!
 
My experience with the Chinese is that they take extra care of Americans. One Chinese business owner told me of an entire strip of profitable night clubs being permanently closed due to one minor scuffle involving an American.

I would be concerned with medical care outside of the major cities, but you and your baby should be fine in Shanghai. You might even receive better care than in the U.S. I know it’s easier for me to say since it’s not my baby.

Also, educated young people all learn English in that part of the world. I don’t think you will have trouble finding an English speaking doctor.
 
can’t believe I forgot about the pollution. Yeah, that is ubiquitous. I think you can get some air cleaning devices for your home?
 
Cariethra said:
I thought the one-child policy wasn’t in effect anymore. I thought that ended about 10 years ago. 🤷
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Even as recent as last month, forcible sterilizations and forcible abortions have been in the news. The one-child policy is very much still in effect. It is pretty horrific for Chinese citizens. Just last year, there were a couple stories of women who were abducted by family planning authorities and their husbands were beaten, and their families were not allowed to know where she had been taken. In both situations, the baby was forcibly aborted. In one story, the woman was then given the remains of her murdered baby, and expected to handle the “disposal” herself, after she was able to walk again. Some pro-life workers were able to sneak in a she allowed them to take a picture of her and her murdered child and to tell her story.

So, as a fertile Catholic woman with a larger family, I do have more than a little trepidation about going to China, although Shanghai is a more cosmopolitan sort of city.
 
Cariethra said:

“I thought the one-child policy wasn’t in effect anymore. I thought that ended about 10 years ago.”

My understanding is that the application of the policy varies a lot from place to place and time to time.

“Shanghai is extremely modern and heavily westernized. The medical care there is supposed to be on par with the rest of the world. Since you are not a Chinese citizen even if the one child policy is still in effect they cannot force it on you (that would create a huge international issue).”

If one is a patient in a hospital in a foreign country, lots of things can happen without ones knowledge or permission. It’s a very vulnerable situation.

Even in the US, things like that happen. There was a case some years ago in the hospital where I was born where a doctor (who used to be my mom’s doctor) got turned in by a nurse after he sterilized a Hispanic mother of a large family without her permission when she was there to have a baby.

If it were to happen to any Westerner in China, it would be a woman delivering her fifth baby.

“From the sound of it this is a contract job that only lasts 18 months. So would it be wise to sell your house? It might be worth more to rent, that way you have a home to return to after the contract it up.”

That’s an interesting suggestion. It would be one less thing to worry about, though.
 
Xantippe said:
Would you be having the baby in China?

I would have a lot of concerns about that, unless there is a hospital that has a good reputation among expats. Among other things, it’s possible that some do forcible sterilizations just as a matter of course. I would research that question very carefully.

Also, in case of family medical emergency, dealing with ER in Chinese might be quite challenging.

Best wishes!
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My experience is that there are hospitals in China that cater to foreigners, and those hospitals tend to be good to exceptional. The medical facility we were at would put any place in this country to shame. It is highly doubtful that an American living in China under the circumstances of the OP would ever be allowed to step into a facility that caters to the average Chinese. Some of those facilities are simply horrible, and would not be permitted to exist in the U.S.
 
There are definitely western class medical facilities in Shanghai as well as HK and Beijing that cater to the expat and the rich Chinese. Would not worry too much about that. Could probably ask at the local Catholic Church there for recommendations and then have one ready to go.
 
Write down all of your questions and concerns and when the company contacts you, ask away! If you will be living with other ex-pats, then maybe there are enough Catholics for there to be a priest, at least for Mass on Sunday. This would be an excellent opportunity for your children also; they will certainly benefit from the experience of living overseas and hopefully, they could also pick up some of the customs and language. I know China has a deplorable one child policy, but it is imposed by the government, the people hate it and many risk fines and worse to defy it; such courage is an inspiration to us all.
 
RedFox0456 said:
From what I understand, real Christianity is gaining considerable momentum in China. It could be that you are meant to be a positive example of living out that faith for the people there. I wouldn’t say that for sure, but I do think it’s something to consider and pray about.
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Just finished an article on that subject. It should be kept in mind that the Chinese government keeps active in some of these churches. The Catholic Church has not allowed the government to appoint cardinales etc. This will become a problem but that is not the topic here.

We lived as ex pats in a community and loved it. I would not hesitate to go and I’m sure you’ll find a church with no problem and be able to pratice your faith.

You might consider renting your home for those 18 months just in case you need to return.

It is a wonderful experience to live in a foreign country and experience a different culture. We had two kids under eight when we went abroad for three years. They both loved it. I did too. But when all is said and done, it will make you appreciate the US on your return.
 
Regarding the One-Child Policy, here is a link to a news story today from LifeSiteNews, a pro-life news and activism organization, that has pictures of family planning authority signs, publicly warning the populace of the retribution they will face if they get pregnant without a permit.

lifesitenews.com/news/you-must-abort-chinas-one-child-policy-in-pictures1

I regularly follow pro-life activism news sources like LifeSiteNews. These stories pop up nearly every week. So, of course, I am very concerned that, despite the fact that I am not a Chinese citizen, but rather an American citizen living there as a guest for a short period of time, that I would be targeted for forcible abortion or sterilization if I should accidentally wander out of a strictly expat area.
I would feel very differently about this opportunity if it had arisen if I was not currently pregnant, but like I said before, I do not believe it is a coincidence that this opportunity popped up at this time. If I am not absolutely sure that I and my family (esp. children) would be 100% safe from family planning authorities and anti-Catholic people in power, we will not step foot within the country.
 
About health care: We were in South America and my husband was in a bad car accident. I asked the company to medivac him out until I talked to his surgeon who informed me that he would not be going anywhere. I asked him about his credentials and he informed me that he had studied at Columbia Presbyterian. Hubby got excellent care from this doctor. As a bonus, the ex pat women who were nurses jumped for the opportunity to give him individiual attention. Three months later he walked off the plane with no evidence that he had suffered two broken legs one shattered in many pieces. I’m sure where you are going, the medical care will be very good. You’ll probably meet many who have studied in the US.

The one baby policy: It does not concern you. Don’t worry about things like this.
 
With a state-controlled church (and they control ALL religion), lots of pollution (water isn’t safe to drink and the air isn’t good), and the fact that having multiple children is punishable by death of the unborn child, I would not go.
 
I would definitely move to China! It is a wonderful opportunity for your kids to experience the world, a new language, new culture, and have new experiences they cannot have anywhere else. It helps that the housing is covered as well, and maid service? What mom of many wouldn’t live that? The one child policy does not apply to foreigners in China, and actually there are many ways the Chinese themselves are finding around it. If they give birth outside if China it does not count toward the one child allowed, so many travel to other countries to have their first few children. That is why you will see a lot if Chinese students in the US that have two or more children, and then they will have one child later in China when they return there. Foreigners are treated quite well in China. They believe in hospitality. 18 months is not a very long time…long enough for lasting memories but not long enough for severe homesickness. My aunt makes regular trips to China and has never had trouble attending Mass while she’s there. If you will be in a community with other Americans you will most if the comforts if home so to speak and language won’t be as big a barrier either (my aunt speaks no Chinese but never has any trouble). If I had this opportunity I would hop on it.
 
As long as the job situation is legit, I would certainly consider the possibility!

Kids who have traveled are the most well rounded I know. They get to truly be part of another culture.

Prayers for your decision! 👍
 
How exciting! As someone who has lived in seven countries, one of them twice, in the last thirty years, I envy you, I have only been able to visit China once, but It is fascinating. This will be a wonderful opportunity for your kids. In my experience as a foreign service wife, countries like China take great pride in the medical care that they provide to foreigners. Your husband’s company should be able to provide you with information about the local health care. If you are really worried, you could possibly make arrangements for a little trip to Hawaii, and have the baby there.

Join the American Women’s Club as soon as you get there. The expat community will be very accepting, and people make an effort to help newcomers. It is not like moving to a new city at home. The American Women’s Club will have information about doctors, dentists, which are the best stores to get what you need, everything that you will need to know. They will most likely have a class in survival Chinese, but I bet that you can get away without it, although speaking the language would make your time there more interesting. As a busy mother of a family, you most likely will not have the time to learn a language like that. English is widely spoken in large Chinese cities at least in the areas where you will be going. (My brother-in-law is a professor of English literature in a major Chinese university.) You are not likely to be socializing with many ordinary Chinese anyway. We have lived in both Russia and Cuba, and of the Chinese government is anything like the Russians and the Cubans, ordinary Chinese will be discouraged from having anything but business relationships with you. You won’t lack for a social life though, the expat community will be very active. The American Women’s Club will probably even have a group for new moms. There will be lots of activites for the kids, too.

I do not have information about Mass in Shanghai, but I know that Mass offered by a real Catholic priest is available in Bejing. You will probably be able to find it in Shanghai, too. As long as only expats attend these Masses, and they don’t engage in proselytizing, the government probably looks the other way. Since Catholics do need to be careful about this any one with information about Mass in Shanghai will PM you.

I hope that you will take advantage of this wonderful, once in a lifetime, opportunity. We are all waiting to hear what you decide.
 
I would not hesitate to experience China, having been their several times. While we were mainly in major population centers, several (Changsha, Nanchang, etc.) were effectively devoid of influence. What a fascinating culture. Yes, China is officially atheist and has its issues, but it is a fascinating place to visit.

With regard to the one-child and other policies: You are westerners, and are not subject to the rules that Chinese citizens are subject to.
 
Seems like an awesome opportunity, if you are able to address your concerns! At first I thought wow, how cool! But then I put myself in your shoes and I can imagine all the concerns you may have (I still think it would be neat, though 🙂 ). What an awesome way to immerse yourself in a culture and then come back home.
I would make a list of all your concerns and address them one by one. Can you google around see if you find other women (maybe even Catholic) living in Shanghai in a situation similar to yours? Maybe a forum or something? I totally understand your concerns regarding giving birth there, air quality, etc… I think it is good that you are asking around, that way people can also bring up potential issues (and advantages) you may not have thought of. Could the company put you in contact with another woman that may have lived there because of work as well? If you can address everything I would say go for it! A very cool adventure!

ETA: I would also take into consideration your current job situation… would the position/location after the 18 months in China be a vast improvement? (you don’t have to answer here, just something to think about)
 
Moving to Shanghai is an awesome opportunity.

Shanghai is a world class Western city with good health care, excellent education and is extremely safe. The smog is however horrific if by Western standards.

The traditional language of Shanghai is Shanghaiese which is not mutually intelligible with Mandarin Chinese. Virtually everyone under 40 except for expats speak Mandarin Chinese fluently. Most people under 25 and extensive portions of the professionals in Shanghai understand English to some degree. If you stick to the expat community you can live fine without learning Chinese. Chinese doesn’t have an alphabet, so you can’t just sound out the characters you have to know it though places like airports and train stations will have Pinyin which you can sound out.

The one child policy is not enforced on foreigners, you’re at no risk of a forced abortion as a foreigner. Mostly that stuff happens in rural China which Shanghai is most definitely not.
 
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