Moving To Sweden

[adawgj]

TeutonicKnight, be my guest: Be disgusted all you want; I’m disgusted by unappreciative haters, but I notice that you have not actually refuted any of what I wrote about the US.

And you can’t, because it’s all 100% factually true.

Your definition of a nation is simplistic. A nation is many things: Its people are a big part. But so too are its history; its culture; its government; and its achievements. Many of those things come from the people. Well, if those things come from the people and the achievements, government, etc., are superior, then it sure looks as if its people are superior too. As Bill Parcells said (and I’m really quoting all sorts of people, aren’t I??), you are what your record says you are: And the USA’s track record compares favorably to literally every nation on the earth, bar none.

So be a hater: I’ll take the people of the USA over the people of any other nation in (morally bankrupt, now-cowardly, anti-Semitic, causer-of-2-world-wars) Europe; broken, petty fractured South America; even-more-messed-up and petty and broken Africa; or Asia for that matter, than anywhere else. Why? Because our achievements as a young, not quite 250-year-old nation say so.

And if you’d rather leave, we don’t need walls to keep our people here. To all the whiners who say, “this is why we hate the US!” I respond: That’s because you’re just jealous. That’s the American way, too: We don’t like whiners, and we don’t like losers either (because Americans as a whole are neither, and our accomplishments say so).

PS I don’t see the haters saying “this is why we hate you!” when your country has a mudslide; a hurricane; an earthquake, etc., 1000+ are dead, and the USA delivers aid/food/medical care.

Your patriotism is definitely strong.

But America has some dark sides of it’s young history too. America did take over Native American nations, continue slavery when Britain and Europe already outlawed it, Take over Mexico’s territory in California and other western states, take over Spain’s Cuba for no real reason, keep African Americans as second class citizens for more than half of the 20th century, Vietnam war, kill South American and Middle Eastern leaders and replace them with corrupt dictators.

America is really powerful because she has technological advancements over other nations.

I’ll quote Lex Luthor from “Superman Returns”

“You see whoever controls technology controls the world. The Roman empire ruled the world because they built roads. The British empire ruled the world because they built ships. America; the atom bomb. And so on and so forth.”

 

[adawgj]

It’s not easy to leave the USA because of tax laws? Waaaaa, waaaa, waaaaa. We don’t build walls to keep our people in like the communists did (and still do).

Maybe not physical walls, but there are walls.

 

[pensmama87]

There’s a funny mock-chauvinist radio ad locally where they talk about how great it is to live in America, where you can buy a burrito as big as your thigh along with a diet Coke, and nobody bats an eye.

When I was in high school I worked in a fast food place and this happened a LOT. A coworker and I used to joke about it, “Oh, somebody’s watching their figure!” (Don’t worry, we had the drive-thru microphones turned off. )

I don’t drink pop/soda/Coke often, but when I do, it’s diet, not for “health” (truthfully, it’s probably worse for you) but because I can’t stand the taste and feel of non-diet pop. It makes my teeth feel slimy. I would imagine that’s why…but of course, that ruins the joke.

One thing I will say for this thread: Scandinavians are not known to be overly friendly. At least, not the way Americans usually are. My mother, who is one of the mildest, most serene people I know, was stared at when traveling there because she smiled and laughed in public. So, that would be a pretty big cultural adjustment. I know that would be hard for me at first because I would feel like everyone was being rude to me, meanwhile they would all think I was being rude to them!

 

[Xantippe]

When I was in high school I worked in a fast food place and this happened a LOT. A coworker and I used to joke about it, “Oh, somebody’s watching their figure!” (Don’t worry, we had the drive-thru microphones turned off. )

I don’t drink pop/soda/Coke often, but when I do, it’s diet, not for “health” (truthfully, it’s probably worse for you) but because I can’t stand the taste and feel of non-diet pop. It makes my teeth feel slimy. I would imagine that’s why…but of course, that ruins the joke.

One thing I will say for this thread: Scandinavians are not known to be overly friendly. At least, not the way Americans usually are. My mother, who is one of the mildest, most serene people I know, was stared at when traveling there because she smiled and laughed in public. So, that would be a pretty big cultural adjustment. I know that would be hard for me at first because I would feel like everyone was being rude to me, meanwhile they would all think I was being rude to them!

A Minnesotan would probably have that down pat.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Thanks Contra!
Since I have never done anything like this before, my mind immediatley jumps to drab thoughts like, what do you do with all your stuff? How much do you bring with you? Do you leave it all behind? I imagine you leave most of your belongings behind.

Before the big move we were renting our home and all the furniture in it, so that wasn’t an issue. We took personal belongings, just the essentials, and a couple of boxes of books. It is incredible how stuff tends to accumulate Once we leave here I will have to do a serious purge.

Basically: sell it, donate to charity/friends, keep what is worthwhile in storage.

I have found that the most difficult aspect of moving abroad is making the decision. Once you decide to go, the actual move is relatively easy. (As long as you find a job beforehand, or you are quite certain you are likely to find a job once you get there. ) So many other expats have told me the same thing. And after you do it once you realise that this is not some outlandish way to live, but just another good option.

The worst that can happen is that you don’t like it and decide to return home. It might take a bit of time to find a job at home, but it would happen.You would still have the experience of having lived and worked abroad, which is valuable in itself, and many employers would see it as a plus.

What is often more tricky is repatriation after a successful and enjoyable stay in the host country. I swear, at this point it would be easier for me to move to China or Vietnam, than to go back to Europe.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Your American nationalism is quite disgusting, in all honesty. There is no nation that is superior to another.

I’m glad you point this out an use the right term for the attitude: nationalism.

Healthy patriotism is a good thing, but the above sentiment has a certain tone that I find very troubling.

For example, if a German expressed their feelings about their homeland in the same way and insisted on how superior it is to other countries, people around them would be shrieking in horror. (And imho Germany has a much higher level of culture and a longer list of contributions to the world than the US, and many bright spots in their history.)

I think that this attitude is extremely common to people who have not seen the world, have no interest in what is beyond their country’s borders, and perhaps secretly fear it. This is found in all countries and all cultures. We are human after all, and what is different can be scary.

 

[GEddie]

I’m glad you point this out an use the right term for the attitude: nationalism.

Healthy patriotism is a good thing, but the above sentiment has a certain tone that I find very troubling.

For example, if a German expressed their feelings about their homeland in the same way and insisted on how superior it is to other countries, people around them would be shrieking in horror. (And imho Germany has a much higher level of culture and a longer list of contributions to the world than the US, and many bright spots in their history.)

I don’t think anything is to be gained by comparing a previous poster’s nation unfavorably to another; let’s not do so.

In any case, I think the “horror” you refer to is mostly gone. WW2 is in the past.

I think that this attitude is extremely common to people who have not seen the world, have no interest in what is beyond their country’s borders, and perhaps secretly fear it. This is found in all countries and all cultures. We are human after all, and what is different can be scary.

It is a shame we all can’t just be human; sadly, national sovereignty and national chauvinism will be with us for at least another thousand years.

But in all fairness, with regard to USAniks, this kind of chauvinism is a natural result of living in one of the few nations where interacting with any other nation is largely optional. One could live their life out in the USA without ever going outside it, knowing anybody from outside it, or receiving foreign media. This is not true everywhere.

ICXC NIKA

 

[HopenHappiness]

Another thing to realize when you are moving to another country, being a US Citizen does not mean a thing. I lived abroad in Germany for 3 years due to my husbands military commitment. It was a culture shock to say the least. You need to go by their laws, when getting a drivers licenses one thing they stressed was do not hit the livestock. You just don’t pay for that chicken, you pay for the whole chickens life and how much it would produce in a life time. Also an interesting thing was if the Police decided that you were drinking, they take a blood sample on the spot. If you refuse, no problem they just restrain you and do it anyways.

I had seen so many young Americans think because they are an American that German law wouldn’t apply to them. So learn the laws and customs. While I was frightened at first, after a couple of months we ventured around and had as much fun as our gas coupons allowed us. Buying gas was extremely expensive, more then double state side. Also learn the language, before you go if you can. That shows them that you respect them, and things will be easier.

We got more free dinners because we would show up at a local Gasthaus (pub like ) the would take one look at us American’s and would start talking about us in German, and then laugh etc. What they didn’t know, while I couldn’t speak German very well with my accent, I could read, write and understand it just fine. so after a few minutes of them making fun of us in one way or another. I would have the Bardame (bar maid) bring over a note I had scribbled that usually replied to something they were making fun of and you need to be careful because you never know who speaks German. I would end up with them joining us, me speaking very bad German, them speaking very bad english and them paying our bill for the night. Win win if you ask me.

So if you are going to do this, enjoy, but be aware being an American will not save you from anything, and your are on equal footing with your host country.

I forgot to mention, most people who hated being station of Germany never went any father then right outside the front gate. So make sure you explore the countryside. Also find out which little towns are friendly to Americans. Our first town did not like Americans which we did not know, so moved to an American friendly town. Made life easier.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Another thing to realize when you are moving to another country, being a US Citizen does not mean a thing. I lived abroad in Germany for 3 years due to my husbands military commitment. It was a culture shock to say the least. You need to go by their laws, when getting a drivers licenses one thing they stressed was do not hit the livestock. You just don’t pay for that chicken, you pay for the whole chickens life and how much it would produce in a life time. Also an interesting thing was if the Police decided that you were drinking, they take a blood sample on the spot. If you refuse, no problem they just restrain you and do it anyways.

I think that the important legal question in this case is, why is the chicken crossing the road? Doesn’t the chicken bear some responsibility in its untimely demise?

Good point about learning the laws before you go, though. I was nearly arrested for taking a photograph without a license in Equatorial Guinea. I had no idea but apparently it is a hefty fine and a possible detention for any photographs. I was lucky in that the police were willing to let me go with a bribe. There was also the case some years back of an Irish student locked up in Senegal for dropping his pants in public.

Not so much to worry about in Sweden, though. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that in Sweden it is illegal to strike a child. So if you are coming from America you should keep in mind that spanking your children, especially in public, can land you in a bit of legal trouble.

 

[Coatimundi]

Not so much to worry about in Sweden, though. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that in Sweden it is illegal to strike a child. So if you are coming from America you should keep in mind that spanking your children, especially in public, can land you in a bit of legal trouble.

The US State Department, on its travel website, lists two significant differences between US and Swedish law. There is no bail system in Sweden, so if a person is arrested for a crime, they will be held in detention until the trial is resolved. The other major difference is that Sweden punishes the possession, use, or sale of illegal drugs much more severely than the US.
travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/sweden.html

Obviously the second situation would not apply to our (possible) emigre couple. However, I imagine the first situation would be alarming for persons used to American law.

 

[twf]

PolarGuy:
You’d be hard pressed to find a Canadian who would agree with your assessment. We know the USA very well…we travel there frequently. In fact, we are the only nationality on the planet which the US Government permits to cross the border as a US citizen. When I fly in from Latin America to Miami, I line up with the US citizens, because Canadians aren’t treated as international visitors. Yet we have no reason to stay, because our homeland has a higher standard of living, a longer life expectancy, a lower crime rate, a much lower homicide rate, and universal health care. There are pros and cons to living in any country. Your blind nationalism comes across as not only arrogant, but misinformed and prideful. You speak of the USA’s far superior moral track record. I don’t deny that the USA has done many good things…Canada and the USA are close allies and always have been…we fought side by side during both World Wars… but if you look farther back, ever hear of the Underground Railroad? You seem to deny the atrocities that have been committed within the United States by Americans. There’s a reason why Black runaway slaves risked everything to flee to Canada seeking freedom…

In an earlier post you asked how many free countries would elect a black man. It took the USA a long time to get to this point. Americans were still lynching innocent blacks for looking at a woman the wrong way long after slavery had been outlawed in Europe and Canada. My question to you is…why has the USA elected a woman? Plenty of European countries have.

Everything else aside, there is are two very important reasons why we as Catholics need to be very careful when we claim that either the USA or Canada are truly “great”. Both countries allow abortion. Canada legalized gay marriage and many states are now doing likewise. Abortion is a despicable crime that calls out to heaven for vengeance. When one million innocent babies are being legally murdered each and every year in the USA, and 100 000 in Canada, can either country truly be called “great” by any Catholic with a conscience? I will give the USA this - the fight against abortion and gay marriage remains much stronger than it does in Canada or much or Europe…
My wife is Dominican. When the Dominican Congress considered legalizing abortion several years ago, the Cardinal Archbishop of Santo Domingo appeared before the Congress and convinced them to step down. For that reason alone, the legal defense of unborn children, I would be tempted to say that the DR is a greater country than Canada or the US…all the other factors seem to pale by comparison.

 

[Royalist]

Also an interesting thing was if the Police decided that you were drinking, they take a blood sample on the spot. If you refuse, no problem they just restrain you and do it anyways.

This is how it is in many states already. The trend is towards it being that way everywhere in America.

You can debate whether America was ever the greatest country in the world. It sure isn’t any more.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ce_photograph_of_Vicki_Weaver_21_Aug_1992.jpg

 

[heidi_storage]

Uh, hasn’t this gotten a little off topic? I say, if you’re young and don’t have commitments in-country, go for it! It is good advice to research the country as much as possible, and to have an exit plan ready.

I have been told that moving abroad ANYWHERE, no matter how awesome, will trigger some culture shock for quite awhile, so you should be prepared for that.

 

[Xantippe]

Uh, hasn’t this gotten a little off topic? I say, if you’re young and don’t have commitments in-country, go for it! It is good advice to research the country as much as possible, and to have an exit plan ready.

I have been told that moving abroad ANYWHERE, no matter how awesome, will trigger some culture shock for quite awhile, so you should be prepared for that.

Yes, there’s some good stuff out there on cultural adjustment.

The Peace Corps deals with this a lot, so we learned about the following three stages (just paraphrasing here, I don’t remember the exact wording):

1. The honeymoon (everything is so exotic and awesome! I love everybody!)
2. I hate everybody and everything here. Get me out!
3. OK, I get it. I understand how things work. I can deal with it.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Yes, there’s some good stuff out there on cultural adjustment.

The Peace Corps deals with this a lot, so we learned about the following three stages (just paraphrasing here, I don’t remember the exact wording):

1. The honeymoon (everything is so exotic and awesome! I love everybody!)
2. I hate everybody and everything here. Get me out!
3. OK, I get it. I understand how things work. I can deal with it.

So true

And then perhaps 4: I like it, I could stay here for a bit.

 

[Sarcelle]

Minnesota is full of Norwegians. Plus, Sweden has reindeer and the midnight sun.

The downside? In Sweden you will have to eat lingonberries, limpa and lussekatt. Granted, the last two are seasonal. Plus, if you live near the coast, the winters are milder than in Minnesota.

You forgot lutefisk, Janssen’s temptation and pears with gingered cream.

 

[SuperLuigi]

HELLOOO

TK actually posted this on my behalf cause Im lazy.

But actually PolarGuy, I currently live in MN. And its not like we are making this decision on a whim and plan to move tomorrow. Its likely not going to be for a few years. We are very interested in Sweden for exactly the socialist aspect cause we cray like that.

Socialism is against Catholic teaching and harbors great evil. :yup:

 

[SuperLuigi]

Someone I know is thinking of moving to Sweden, and she has questions for people who have visited/who live there. The following is from her:

*My fiance and I are seriously considering moving to Sweden after we are married. Has anyone had living experience there?

Ive been doing lots of research about it but I was wondering if anyone had some first hand experience…what the culture is like, what the people are like, job market, interacting when you mostly only speak english…etc etc!

I plan to take a swedish language class for immigrants if we do actually move. *

Well, the worst thing you can do in researching about another place to live is to be politically correct about it or have some kind of idealistic notion of what it is to live there.

They say “it’s always looks greener on the other side of the fence” for a reason.

In the case of Sweden I don’t think a lot of people realize the demographic changes that are occurring there, and many of the ones that do realize don’t like talking about it because there’s lots of bad with that.

I think there’s some folks out there with the perception they can go traveling all over Europe and see nothing but Caucasians.

All in all, traveling to another place and living there are two entirely different things.

 

[heidi_storage]

Well, the worst thing you can do in researching about another place to live is to be politically correct about it or have some kind of idealistic notion of what it is to live there.

They say “it’s always looks greener on the other side of the fence” for a reason.

In the case of Sweden I don’t think a lot of people realize the demographic changes that are occurring there, and many of the ones that do realize don’t like talking about it because there’s lots of bad with that.

I think there’s some folks out there with the perception they can go traveling all over Europe and see nothing but Caucasians.

All in all, traveling to another place and living there are two entirely different things.

Oooh, scary, scary non-Caucasians! Good thing we don’t have any of those in the U.S.! But by “non-Caucasians” I assume you mean Muslims, right (though quite a few of those are Caucasian)?

Look, I’m sorry to mock–your point about getting a realistic idea of the country is a good one, and so is your statement that living in a place is very different from visiting it. You just seem frightened by all that is non-U.S., and I don’t think that’s a good attitude. You know, I DO think that some nations are “better” than other–I’d far rather live in the U.S. than in Afghanistan, for instance–but geez, I think it’s great to take a chance, move out of your comfort zone, and do something new. Rock on.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

TeutonicKnight, be my guest: Be disgusted all you want; I’m disgusted by unappreciative haters, but I notice that you have not actually refuted any of what I wrote about the US.

And you can’t, because it’s all 100% factually true.

Your definition of a nation is simplistic. A nation is many things: Its people are a big part. But so too are its history; its culture; its government; and its achievements. Many of those things come from the people. Well, if those things come from the people and the achievements, government, etc., are superior, then it sure looks as if its people are superior too. As Bill Parcells said (and I’m really quoting all sorts of people, aren’t I??), you are what your record says you are: And the USA’s track record compares favorably to literally every nation on the earth, bar none.

So be a hater: I’ll take the people of the USA over the people of any other nation in (morally bankrupt, now-cowardly, anti-Semitic, causer-of-2-world-wars) Europe; broken, petty fractured South America; even-more-messed-up and petty and broken Africa; or Asia for that matter, than anywhere else. Why? Because our achievements as a young, not quite 250-year-old nation say so.

And if you’d rather leave, we don’t need walls to keep our people here. To all the whiners who say, “this is why we hate the US!” I respond: That’s because you’re just jealous. That’s the American way, too: We don’t like whiners, and we don’t like losers either (because Americans as a whole are neither, and our accomplishments say so).

PS I don’t see the haters saying “this is why we hate you!” when your country has a mudslide; a hurricane; an earthquake, etc., 1000+ are dead, and the USA delivers aid/food/medical care.

Yes, because engaging in imperialism, murdering the inhabitants of an entire continent and taking it over, and blowing up 2 defenseless Japanese towns in the name of 'Murica are great achievements to boast. America is not spotless; it was made upon many Protestant ideals which are contrary to the faith, and this is fact. In fact, America even has its own heresy named after it.