Moving To Sweden

[ATeutonicKnight]

I’m glad you point this out an use the right term for the attitude: nationalism.

Healthy patriotism is a good thing, but the above sentiment has a certain tone that I find very troubling.

For example, if a German expressed their feelings about their homeland in the same way and insisted on how superior it is to other countries, people around them would be shrieking in horror. (And imho Germany has a much higher level of culture and a longer list of contributions to the world than the US, and many bright spots in their history.)

I think that this attitude is extremely common to people who have not seen the world, have no interest in what is beyond their country’s borders, and perhaps secretly fear it. This is found in all countries and all cultures. We are human after all, and what is different can be scary.

It’s worth noting that one of the things which killed the Roman Empire is nationalism. They believed Rome was superior to every other country in the world, and that coupled with arrogance, power, and all the vice you can possibly handle (all of which America is mirroring), caused Rome to kill itself. Nationalism is the antithesis of Catholic theology. As Saint Augustine says in The City of God, nations rise and nations fall, and it does not matter. We were not made for this country, or even this world, but for the City of God. Don’t get too attached.

 

[SuperLuigi]

=heidi_storage;12284054]Oooh, scary, scary non-Caucasians! Good thing we don’t have any of those in the U.S.! But by “non-Caucasians”

This comment = epic fail.

For starters, I’m a minority. Why should I be scared of other minorities? I was talking about culture shock that others might have, not about myself. :thankyou:

Let me ask you this: do you live in a diverse area or a major city where whites are not the majority?

I have. Detroit and DC.

I really hope the prior comment isn’t coming from the air-conditioned safety of a cul de sac or urban condo with private security…

I assume you mean Muslims, right (though quite a few of those are Caucasian)?

There’s people from a lot of different backgrounds who live Sweden.

Look, I’m sorry to mock-

:ehh:

Are you really?

your point about getting a realistic idea of the country is a good one, and so is your statement that living in a place is very different from visiting it.

I’ve done both, but it should be an obvious difference. :yup:

You just seem frightened by all that is non-U.S., and I don’t think that’s a good attitude.

I find it interesting when junior and newer members than I am assume to know things like this about me.

Actually, in the last 2 months I’ve been to 2 foreign countries, plus I have lived outside of the USA.

but geez, I think it’s great to take a chance, move out of your comfort zone, and do something new. Rock on.

I already have. Try living in a large city where your friends are shot at for being the wrong skin color, or having bullet holes in the glass window on your apartment complex.

Also, if you’re a citizen of some countries you don’t always the perks that well-to-do tourists do.

:tiphat:

 

[heidi_storage]

This comment = epic fail.

For starters, I’m a minority. Why should I be scared of other minorities? I was talking about culture shock that others might have, not about myself. :thankyou:

Let me ask you this: do you live in a diverse area or a major city where whites are not the majority?

I have. Detroit and DC.

I really hope the prior comment isn’t coming from the air-conditioned safety of a cul de sac or urban condo with private security…

There’s people from a lot of different backgrounds who live Sweden.
:ehh:

Are you really?

I’ve done both, but it should be an obvious difference. :yup:



I find it interesting when junior and newer members than I am assume to know things like this about me.

Actually, in the last 2 months I’ve been to 2 foreign countries, plus I have lived outside of the USA.

I already have. Try living in a large city where your friends are shot at for being the wrong skin color, or having bullet holes in the glass window on your apartment complex.

Also, if you’re a citizen of some countries you don’t always the perks that well-to-do tourists do.

:tiphat:

Hey, I’m just commenting on your first comment–the one about Europe and Caucasians–which seemed awfully xenophobic. Still does, on rereading it. You’re absolutely right that visiting a place is different from living there. I hope the people considering moving do a good job researching the country–I’m sure they will–but I think it’s great they’re considering such a big transition.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Hey, I’m just commenting on your first comment–the one about Europe and Caucasians–which seemed awfully xenophobic.

Well, it sounds to me like that’s not the whole story.

Xenophobic = no :dts: :nope:

Politically incorrect = absolutely. :nunchuk:

Still does, on rereading it.

Rereading a comment does not change the intention behind the comment. In these cases either you believe what I am saying or you do not. In fact, it makes me suspicious you are just trying to see what you want to see for some nefarious, selfish purpose. The comment I wrote wasn’t even close to xenophobic.

It would also do you well to read my original reply to you entirely instead of re-reading the same comment again.

The standards for posting on here are high, but it seems that with recent feedback here on CAF I’m going to have to explain myself better for those who misunderstand my posts and frankly seem to like the drama of such misunderstandings. :tsktsk:

Sad, really, :bighanky: but necessary since I haven’t been getting the benefit of the doubt.

You’re absolutely right that visiting a place is different from living there. I hope the people considering moving do a good job researching the country-

:thankyou:

I’m sure they will–but

We’ll have to wait and see.

I think it’s great they’re considering such a big transition.

People don’t generally move like that just to show how open-minded they are. There’s usually a more personal or economic reason.

 

[heidi_storage]

People don’t generally move like that just to show how open-minded they are. There’s usually a more personal or economic reason.

I’ve known plenty of people–generally young, childless, no mortgage–who have moved all over the world because they thought it would be neat to live in a different country for awhile.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Well, the worst thing you can do in researching about another place to live is to be politically correct about it or have some kind of idealistic notion of what it is to live there.

They say “it’s always looks greener on the other side of the fence” for a reason.

In the case of Sweden I don’t think a lot of people realize the demographic changes that are occurring there, and many of the ones that do realize don’t like talking about it because there’s lots of bad with that.

I think there’s some folks out there with the perception they can go traveling all over Europe and see nothing but Caucasians.

All in all, traveling to another place and living there are two entirely different things.

People have the perception Europe is lily white because they typically only visit the historic centers and avoid the crime-ridden Muslim ghettos surrounding major cities.

Most of the Muslim population of Sweden resides in the suburbs of major city areas, Stockholm, Goteburg, Malmo. Even in those cities, if you avoid the Muslim areas, things are quite idyllic and peaceful. I would want to avoid the racial tensions in any of those cities. And you have to see the racism problem as a two-way street. The Swedes aren’t very fond of the immigrant population but it is the immigrant population that is milking the welfare system and refusing to learn Swedish.

The grass is often greener on the other side. I am glad to live in Texas where at least I share a faith with the majority of the immigrants.

 

[Xantippe]

People have the perception Europe is lily white because they typically only visit the historic centers and avoid the crime-ridden Muslim ghettos surrounding major cities.

Most of the Muslim population of Sweden resides in the suburbs of major city areas, Stockholm, Goteburg, Malmo. Even in those cities, if you avoid the Muslim areas, things are quite idyllic and peaceful. I would want to avoid the racial tensions in any of those cities. And you have to see the racism problem as a two-way street. The Swedes aren’t very fond of the immigrant population but it is the immigrant population that is milking the welfare system and refusing to learn Swedish.

The grass is often greener on the other side. I am glad to live in Texas where at least I share a faith with the majority of the immigrants.

There’s also the potential that the bad feelings that a lot of Swedes have toward the other immigrants would slop over into their treatment of our prospective CAF emigrants.

As they say, fish and guests stink after three days.

 

[aicirt]

Your friend shouldn’t even be thinking of making that kind of move unless one of them has been offered a job there and the job should come with a legal document. You just don’t wander into a country. Visiting and living anywhere are two different things.

I would suggest one of them get a job here with an international company and, hopefully, one day that company will send them abroad.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

There’s also the potential that the bad feelings that a lot of Swedes have toward the other immigrants would slop over into their treatment of our prospective CAF emigrants.

As they say, fish and guests stink after three days.

And I could understand those feelings. I think that the jobs should be going to the Swedes and going to help the local infrastructure, not going to fund a work holiday for an American.

The company I work for used to do these contracts to bring over Norwegian engineers for development. The only problem is that they would spend all this time developing someone only to have them leave the country as they were really just starting to get the hang of things. It was nice for the Norwegians to get to experience the exotic but not so good at building a business.

Maybe the OP should look into the possibility of a work holiday. And expand your options to a little more than Swede. Something that one of my friends did recently is a banana picking holiday in Tully, Queensland. It was just enough to give him extra cash to extend his backpacking holiday.

 

[Luvz2travel]

I just heard a radio personality talking about his experience living there. As others stated it’s very expensive. Salaries are higher but the tax rate is also very high. I think the guy said the average HHI was 42,000 but that they actaully only take home about 22,000 if they are lucky. It’s because of the all the social programs and benefits. Everything is also smaller there the average sqare foot living space is 900 sq ft for a family. My house is a 3 bedroom 960 sq. ft with 3 bedrooms so the sq ft doesn’t sound to bad to me but then I’m single many people in the US prefer more space. I would recommend taking a long working or volunteer working vacation there and renting a ticpical accomidation where average folks live so you could really get to know the culture and living condition. You might find it isn’t so good as it sounds. As to weather you could get a job there and actually make a living and be allowed to stay in another set of issues you would also have to research. You might find it easier to to volunteer work there through some sort of program. They also have youth hostiles there you could stay at cheaply and just travel around and do extended vacations. Good luck.

 

[Crosscut]

Before the big move we were renting our home and all the furniture in it, so that wasn’t an issue. We took personal belongings, just the essentials, and a couple of boxes of books. It is incredible how stuff tends to accumulate Once we leave here I will have to do a serious purge.

Basically: sell it, donate to charity/friends, keep what is worthwhile in storage.

I have found that the most difficult aspect of moving abroad is making the decision. Once you decide to go, the actual move is relatively easy. (As long as you find a job beforehand, or you are quite certain you are likely to find a job once you get there. ) So many other expats have told me the same thing. And after you do it once you realise that this is not some outlandish way to live, but just another good option.

The worst that can happen is that you don’t like it and decide to return home. It might take a bit of time to find a job at home, but it would happen.You would still have the experience of having lived and worked abroad, which is valuable in itself, and many employers would see it as a plus.

What is often more tricky is repatriation after a successful and enjoyable stay in the host country. I swear, at this point it would be easier for me to move to China or Vietnam, than to go back to Europe.

Is it worth it cost-wise to leave belongings in storage for such a long time? What items did you leave in storage when you moved?

Another thing to realize when you are moving to another country, being a US Citizen does not mean a thing. I lived abroad in Germany for 3 years due to my husbands military commitment. It was a culture shock to say the least. You need to go by their laws, when getting a drivers licenses one thing they stressed was do not hit the livestock. You just don’t pay for that chicken, you pay for the whole chickens life and how much it would produce in a life time. Also an interesting thing was if the Police decided that you were drinking, they take a blood sample on the spot. If you refuse, no problem they just restrain you and do it anyways.

I had seen so many young Americans think because they are an American that German law wouldn’t apply to them. So learn the laws and customs. While I was frightened at first, after a couple of months we ventured around and had as much fun as our gas coupons allowed us. Buying gas was extremely expensive, more then double state side. Also learn the language, before you go if you can. That shows them that you respect them, and things will be easier.

So if you are going to do this, enjoy, but be aware being an American will not save you from anything, and your are on equal footing with your host country.

I forgot to mention, most people who hated being station of Germany never went any father then right outside the front gate. So make sure you explore the countryside. Also find out which little towns are friendly to Americans. Our first town did not like Americans which we did not know, so moved to an American friendly town. Made life easier.

Thanks for the info! I have been to Germany before and I remember that they seemed to be rather hostile towards Americans at the time. I traveled with a group and we would often get comments yelled at us from groups of teenagers about Bush or the US in general. (I was in Germany in 2005 when W. Bush was president)

I definitely intent on learning as much Swedish as I can before moving there. I do want to be respectful to their country and culture! I dont want to come off as an arrogant american who knows nothing outside of US soil.

And I do want to explore if I live there! I understand that Sweden has a very strong biking culture so I want to purchase a bike and just enjoy the sites!

The US State Department, on its travel website, lists two significant differences between US and Swedish law. There is no bail system in Sweden, so if a person is arrested for a crime, they will be held in detention until the trial is resolved. The other major difference is that Sweden punishes the possession, use, or sale of illegal drugs much more severely than the US.
travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/sweden.html

Obviously the second situation would not apply to our (possible) emigre couple. However, I imagine the first situation would be alarming for persons used to American law.

Thank you for linking this site!!! I have been scouring all the resources available to me in these early stages of the decision. I have a lot to learn.
I honestly know nothing about visas, citizenship, law differences etc. I have my work cut out for me!

Yes, there’s some good stuff out there on cultural adjustment.

The Peace Corps deals with this a lot, so we learned about the following three stages (just paraphrasing here, I don’t remember the exact wording):

1. The honeymoon (everything is so exotic and awesome! I love everybody!)
2. I hate everybody and everything here. Get me out!
3. OK, I get it. I understand how things work. I can deal with it.

Thank you! That is good to keep in mind! I know I will miss a lot of things from here in the US (my family and friends) but I know that id I didnt at least TRY living in a new place for a new experience, I will regret it.

I am in a good place in life to do this as well. I am engaged to be married so I have no kids yet and neither my fiance and I are particularly attached to our jobs at the moment.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Is it worth it cost-wise to leave belongings in storage for such a long time? What items did you leave in storage when you moved?

I think it depends on the items and what you consider to be valuable. Maybe your family can store something in the attic or something like that. (I wouldn’t pay for storage unless I had valuable antique furniture that I was reluctant to part with.)

We have stored very little in my in-laws’ home: a couple of boxes of books that we didn’t want to take with us, and some winter clothes that we can wear when we come to visit. That’s it.

 

[Crosscut]

I think it depends on the items and what you consider to be valuable. Maybe your family can store something in the attic or something like that. (I wouldn’t pay for storage unless I had valuable antique furniture that I was reluctant to part with.)

We have stored very little in my in-laws’ home: a couple of boxes of books that we didn’t want to take with us, and some winter clothes that we can wear when we come to visit. That’s it.

Im not sure how much we plan to store, I would have to ask my family to see if they wouldnt mind keeping anything…Im not sure if there is anything I care for that much to even keep. Most of my furnature is just IKEA stuff and second hand things. Not worth very much and I am not particularly attach to any of it.

One thing I was thinking about though, is when we move to Sweden…we will literally own nothing. No beds, no chairs, no tables, no basic necessities except clothes. Do you have any advice to cope with that?
Does sweden have second hand stores similar to the US? I have this image in my head that when we move into an apartment there, we will be sleeping on the floor and drinking water out of our hands! haha!

Just a lot to think about, but we have time. We are not planning to move for a couple of years (after we are married) and when at least one of us has found a job.

 

[Xantippe]

Im not sure how much we plan to store, I would have to ask my family to see if they wouldnt mind keeping anything…Im not sure if there is anything I care for that much to even keep. Most of my furnature is just IKEA stuff and second hand things. Not worth very much and I am not particularly attach to any of it.

Now that would be a case of coals to Newcastle…

One thing I was thinking about though, is when we move to Sweden…we will literally own nothing. No beds, no chairs, no tables, no basic necessities except clothes. Do you have any advice to cope with that?

Furnished apartment, at least for the first few months/half year (depending on price/length of stay)? When I was in the Peace Corps in Russia, my school was able to finagle a fully furnished apartment for me and I managed the same (even down to towels) my first year in graduate school in the US. There might, for instance, be landlords who cater to study abroad students or long term business travellers.

A sleeping bag and an the mat that goes underneath might be a good addition to your stuff.

Come to think of it, a US sporting goods/camping store could be a very good place to go shopping–if you pick up an unbreakable mug and small bowl for each of you and pack a little cutlery, that shouldn’t take up much space at all and should tide you over while you get your bearings. The virtue of camping stuff is that it’s small and rugged.

I wonder what Swedish grocery stores are like? Here in TX, you could practically furnish an apartment (except maybe for beds)

 

[Crosscut]

A sleeping bag and an the mat that goes underneath might be a good addition to your stuff.

Come to think of it, a US sporting goods/camping store could be a very good place to go shopping–if you pick up an unbreakable mug and small bowl for each of you and pack a little cutlery, that shouldn’t take up much space at all and should tide you over while you get your bearings. The virtue of camping stuff is that it’s small and rugged.

I wonder what Swedish grocery stores are like? Here in TX, you could practically furnish an apartment (except maybe for beds)

Sleeping bag and some pillows may be a good thing to pack when we head over there. We are planning a late summer vacation to Sweden next year to get a feel for the country before making our final decision.
We can browse all the local stores to see what they are like!

 

[Xantippe]

Sleeping bag and some pillows may be a good thing to pack when we head over there. We are planning a late summer vacation to Sweden next year to get a feel for the country before making our final decision.
We can browse all the local stores to see what they are like!

Very good!

 

[Coatimundi]

We are planning a late summer vacation to Sweden next year to get a feel for the country before making our final decision.
We can browse all the local stores to see what they are like!

I think this is a very wise idea. The longer you can stay (up to 90 days without a visa) the better you will get accustomed to what living there entails.

You probably have been reading some of the expat blogs, so you may have seen this, but one of them said there are things you might not notice on a shorter vacation. Here is an excerpt:

Coming from the US to Sweden, there is an expectation that things will be different, but not too different. And at first glance, that is absolutely true. A two week vacation to Stockholm, and you wouldn’t notice the differences. Of course there is the different language and enough H&M stores to make a teenage girl piddle. But you can speak English and buy Levi’s and drink a Coke and not think twice about it. But it’s the little things that you notice when you’ve been here for a while.

Like grunts being an acceptable form of response. The sharp intake of breath meaning yes. Obviously. To the untrained English speaking ear, it might sound like an utterance of surprise. It’s not. It is an utterance of affirmation.

Like all of the public holidays. I’ve written about this before, but it bears repeating. Red days. They are red because the Christian calendar liked to focus people on those important days by printing them in red. Sundays for example. And of course who could forget the Ascension. In a country as secular as Sweden, some less religious holidays are celebrated. Like International Workers Day on the first of May. Whatever the reason, enjoy your day off and try to avoid embarrassing circumstances like showing up for work.

Like fika. The act of stopping everything you are doing to drink coffee and eat delicious baked goods. Some companies seem to shut down for about half an hour in the morning and half an hour in the afternoon as the entire staff eats a cinnamon roll and drinks a cup of coffee. It’s amazing. It’s delicious. It’s frustrating. Embrace it.
welcometosweden.blogspot.com/2010/01/moving-to-sweden-culture-shock-its.html

That particular blog is four years old, but it is extensive and provides a guide for Americans moving to Sweden.

 

[Xantippe]

I don’t know if the Swedes go in for them, but a European voltage immersion heater is a great first purchase on site.

When we were doing several weeks in Poland some years ago, it meant that it was very easy to make tea and various instant foods in the dorm room where we were staying.

rei.com/product/781694/rei-immersion-heater-120240

 

[Crosscut]

I think this is a very wise idea. The longer you can stay (up to 90 days without a visa) the better you will get accustomed to what living there entails.

You probably have been reading some of the expat blogs, so you may have seen this, but one of them said there are things you might not notice on a shorter vacation. Here is an excerpt:

Coming from the US to Sweden, there is an expectation that things will be different, but not too different. And at first glance, that is absolutely true. A two week vacation to Stockholm, and you wouldn’t notice the differences. Of course there is the different language and enough H&M stores to make a teenage girl piddle. But you can speak English and buy Levi’s and drink a Coke and not think twice about it. But it’s the little things that you notice when you’ve been here for a while.

Like grunts being an acceptable form of response. The sharp intake of breath meaning yes. Obviously. To the untrained English speaking ear, it might sound like an utterance of surprise. It’s not. It is an utterance of affirmation.

Like all of the public holidays. I’ve written about this before, but it bears repeating. Red days. They are red because the Christian calendar liked to focus people on those important days by printing them in red. Sundays for example. And of course who could forget the Ascension. In a country as secular as Sweden, some less religious holidays are celebrated. Like International Workers Day on the first of May. Whatever the reason, enjoy your day off and try to avoid embarrassing circumstances like showing up for work.

Like fika. The act of stopping everything you are doing to drink coffee and eat delicious baked goods. Some companies seem to shut down for about half an hour in the morning and half an hour in the afternoon as the entire staff eats a cinnamon roll and drinks a cup of coffee. It’s amazing. It’s delicious. It’s frustrating. Embrace it.
welcometosweden.blogspot.com/2010/01/moving-to-sweden-culture-shock-its.html

That particular blog is four years old, but it is extensive and provides a guide for Americans moving to Sweden.

We will definitely not be able to stay for more than a week or so in Sweden because its all our jobs/vacation time/money will allow. But there will always be an adjustment factor no matter where you move to. We are not going into this with the mindset that it is going to be the same as living in the US…we fully intent to experience a transition period.

But thank you for all the helpful info! I should look into H&M more haha! There are a few around the area that I live. And I only live like 15 minutes from the Mall of America and they have a huge one there.

I don’t know if the Swedes go in for them, but a European voltage immersion heater is a great first purchase on site.

When we were doing several weeks in Poland some years ago, it meant that it was very easy to make tea and various instant foods in the dorm room where we were staying.

rei.com/product/781694/rei-immersion-heater-120240

Oh dang! Thats cool! I currently have a coiled water boiler but again, it might not make the cut to move haha!

This spurred another question, I wonder what outlets they use? Or what voltage everything is usually at over there? Isnt the typical in the US 280 or something? We might have to invest in a converter for the few electronics we may bring with us.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Im not sure how much we plan to store, … Not worth very much and I am not particularly attach to any of it.

One thing I was thinking about though, is when we move to Sweden…we will literally own nothing. No beds, no chairs, no tables, no basic necessities except clothes. Do you have any advice to cope with that?

It is very common in Europe to rent fully furnished apartments. I wouldn’t worry about this.

Not sure about 2nd hand furniture stores, but they probably exist. (Besides, there is IKEA if you really need to buy things.)

These are things you could ask on an expat forum, or find blogs that would have this kind of into on living in a country.