Mozart, Bach, Beethoven,etc........Lucky or Blessed?

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To me, they convey the same meaning, only because I have always learned they were the same. …
We have all heard of “talent” scouts. Anybody ever hear of an “ability” scout? Of course not, because the words have different meanings.
They still mean the same, but at a different level of talent/ability. …
This has been my point all along. A “talent” is an “ability” of unusually high quality. That’s why I say that not everybody has talent; those without talent have lesser abilities. :yup:
 
We have all heard of “talent” scouts. Anybody ever hear of an “ability” scout? Of course not, because the words have different meanings.

This has been my point all along. A “talent” is an “ability” of unusually high quality. That’s why I say that not everybody has talent; those without talent have lesser abilities. :yup:
Again, you’re proving you have talent (as does everyone else).
 
Again, you’re proving you have talent (as does everyone else).
There are people who can look at a clothespin and see Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer. When I look at a clothespin, all I see is a clothespin. I think you are seeing something that just isn’t there.
 
We have all heard of “talent” scouts. Anybody ever hear of an “ability” scout? Of course not, because the words have different meanings.

This has been my point all along. A “talent” is an “ability” of unusually high quality. That’s why I say that not everybody has talent; those without talent have lesser abilities. :yup:
I understand where you are coming from in that vein. When focusing only on the arts and the strict definition of the word, “talent”, someone who has no ability in music, dance, art, etc. basically has no talent in the arts. That said, it’s not that they have lesser abilities in the arts… they have absolutely NO abilities in the arts whatsoever, period. They can’t and shouldn’t be compared to musicians of any talent/ability Someone who has lesser ability in an art form does not mean he/she has no talent. They just aren’t as gifted in some or all.

Somewhat keeping within the subject of the thread, take the composer Frederic Chopin. Hardly anyone would dismiss him as a hack and having no talent. His compositions transformed the way the piano was vused and he is probably one of the best and most influential composers for the piano during the Romantic period. Yet, his few orchestral compositions were not as good as his contemporaries and previous composers. Bach and Mozart, for example, were known to be able to compose equally well for all instruments, including the voice. Did this make Chopin talent-less? If we were to follow that strict definitions of talent and ability, he would be considered someone “without talent” and having only “lesser abilities” because he didn’t have the same gifts as Bach and Mozart. But, in reality, that is not the case, because he is regarded as a composer with a great amount of talent.

Or take, for instance, the performance of the same piece, but by different singers. (I’m choosing the Alleluia because my 2-year-old loves it and gets her in a good mood when she’s a little cranky which she was up until a couple minutes ago. lol!)

The first is sung by a well-known master artist and musician (One of my favorite singers in certain repertoire). The second is sung by a young “unknown”, though still a talented singer. Both are talented, but there is a difference in the level of talent/ability in both the technical execution and artistic execution. One could argue the subjectivity on the artistic end, but with technique, there is a difference in the way the coloratura was executed. One is more legato, with the voice more “in the body” and the other does not have that legato with the coloratura. The voice is a little more shallow and more in the throat. In addition, her high notes not as full and solid. A nice, lovely sound and definitely with talent, but not at the same level as the more seasoned, master singer. Yet, I would enjoy both performances in their places. Even though the young singer is not as talented as the seasoned one, she would not be considered just someone without talent only because her talents/abilities are not at the same level.

youtube.com/watch?v=dYFfuoqdTpE

youtube.com/watch?v=tv8RVxOPAe4

Again, as demonstrated by the statements I wrote in the previous posts, many people correctly use “ability” as equal to “talent” when describing musicians whether a newby or a master. My point being that either use of these words is correct. I’m not going to tell you that you are wrong in your understanding of the words (nor do I believe you are wrong in your assessment), because you are adhering to a much more strict definition of the words. But I do believe it is important to note that the strict accordance to the definition does not always hold true.

Anyway, thank you for the discussion. It’s nice to not be constantly dealing with poopy diapers, potty training, spit up, nursery rhymes and cartoons. :p:D
 
… take the composer Frederic Chopin. … If we were to follow that strict definitions of talent and ability, he would be considered someone “without talent” and having only “lesser abilities” because he didn’t have the same gifts as Bach and Mozart.
I disagree. In my mind we would have to compare/contrast them on a scale that would include all the people in the world to get an accurate idea of where they place on the ability scale. I say “ability” because it includes the “talented” as a subset. On such a scale, Chopin will easily place in the “ability of unusually high quality” category, although perhaps not nearly as high as Mozart et al.

Thanks for your well-thought-out response. 🙂
 
Indeed, EVERYBODY has talent—some in some things, some in others. Some have a talent for continuing to press points over and over again (including myself)—even if others disagree with them. Ah yes—talents in so many forms abound.
 
Indeed, EVERYBODY has talent—some in some things, some in others. Some have a talent for continuing to press points over and over again (including myself)—even if others disagree with them. Ah yes—talents in so many forms abound.
Yeah, I can see that. Some people even have the talent of kidding themselves in the face of evidence to the contrary. Their balloon never comes down to earth.
 
Yeah, I can see that. Some people even have the talent of kidding themselves in the face of evidence to the contrary. Their balloon never comes down to earth.
Getting the balloon even to leave the ground is a talent–and getting it to land again is a talent as well. Good thing we’ve all got 'em.
 
Getting the balloon even to leave the ground is a talent–and getting it to land again is a talent as well. Good thing we’ve all got 'em.
I still say it’s cruel to encourage people to kid themselves into believing they have talent when all they have are simple abilities. One of the cruelest statements is, “You can be anything you want.” No, you can’t. What you want might be totally unrealistic. Better that an individual tackle tasks that he has a realistic chance of succeeding at than those he is sure to fail at. So when you say everyone has talent, there are those who will believe you and attempt something for which they have little or no talent, fail, and get frustrated. Is that what you want?
 
I still say it’s cruel to encourage people to kid themselves into believing they have talent when all they have are simple abilities. One of the cruelest statements is, “You can be anything you want.” No, you can’t. What you want might be totally unrealistic. Better that an individual tackle tasks that he has a realistic chance of succeeding at than those he is sure to fail at. So when you say everyone has talent, there are those who will believe you and attempt something for which they have little or no talent, fail, and get frustrated. Is that what you want?
100 percent true,
 
It’s not a matter of whether God gives more to one and less to another—it is that all have been given something–a talent. Christ even preaches on that. What we do with that talent is what we will be accountable for. It’s Scriptural.

Too many are trying to confine talent to artistic or even athletic. Some don’t want to seem to admit to having any talent—are you saying God has given you nothing? That you can do nothing? That you are an immobile and unmovable mass or a person that doesn’t breathe or function in the least? How are you going to be accountable for that?

Again, if you’re posting here, you have talent. That you continue to discuss shows that you have more talent to discuss than others might. Don’t deny your talents.

Do you have a talent to teach? To lead? To admonish? To encourage? To pray before others? To raise children well (not all have this talent, to be sure)? You have no talents? You’re kidding yourself—and denying your own gifts. That’s wasting talent.
 
I never said you could “be anything you want” or “do anything you want”–in fact, I don’t think anybody here has said that. God certainly didn’t mean for that to be the case.
I have said, and will forever say, that you have talents to do some things—and naturally, that means you have the amount of talent to do something at least .0000001% better than anyone else. This is simple and basic fact. You may wish to deny this–but did Christ preach on giving “abilities” or did he preach on giving “talents”?
 
I still say it’s cruel to encourage people to kid themselves into believing they have talent when all they have are simple abilities. One of the cruelest statements is, “You can be anything you want.” No, you can’t. What you want might be totally unrealistic. Better that an individual tackle tasks that he has a realistic chance of succeeding at than those he is sure to fail at. So when you say everyone has talent, there are those who will believe you and attempt something for which they have little or no talent, fail, and get frustrated. Is that what you want?
That’s why it is the parents’ job to recognize genuine abilities in their children and establish the right environment to foster them so they may thrive.

It is also the parents’ job to allow their children to try different things in order to locate their talents. That is the real reason behind the “be anything you want” message. Parents do have the responsibility to recognize when their child doesn’t have a talent and encouraging them to try something else if one thing isn’t working out.
 
This “everybody has talent” vs. “no they don’t” debate is interesting, to say the least…
I still say it’s cruel to encourage people to kid themselves into believing they have talent when all they have are simple abilities. One of the cruelest statements is, “You can be anything you want.” No, you can’t. What you want might be totally unrealistic. Better that an individual tackle tasks that he has a realistic chance of succeeding at than those he is sure to fail at. So when you say everyone has talent, there are those who will believe you and attempt something for which they have little or no talent, fail, and get frustrated. Is that what you want?
Even if we define “talent” very narrowly as meaning “special degree of ability,” I still think the chances are very high that everybody has some sort of talent. It’s just that some may never find theirs. For instance, perhaps an impoverished tribesman in the Amazon is an absolute natural at building a house of cards that would break a world record…insofar as having the natural ability goes, he would have a “talent.” But…he may never ever find this, given that he is not in the position to find it, or perhaps he will never take an interest in it. By this definition, literally only those with extreme handicaps could be said, for certain, to have no talents. Because even if you do mean that only “special” things are talents, the only way we could reasonably conclude that any given person literally had no talent would be if that person had tried his hand at every single specialized talent known to man and had proven a dud at them all (as even the most obscure of tasks can conceivably be talents if someone excels at them in a way that is uncommon or special). I dare say that very few people, if any, have taken such an extensive journey of self-discovery. 😛

And, until a person has made such an exhaustive journey, I would think it a bit cruel to count them out in terms of their having any talent…it’s hypothetically possible for a person to have no talents by that definition, but I can only imagine how bleak an existence I would have if I was told (and believed it) that I almost certainly had no talents whatsoever, not even one that I simply hadn’t discovered yet. If having talent is not important to you, that’s fine, of course, but as for me I’d rather live my whole life knowing that there was hope that I had talent even if I’d never found it, than believing that I almost certainly had none. Because most people I know seem so clearly talented at something, if I concluded that I had none, none whatsoever, not even any that I hadn’t found yet (and might never find), I would feel that I must have been a “fluke,” or “broken.” I’m not saying that would be a proper way to see myself, but it would be difficult not to… But maybe I am simply disproportionately surrounded by people with obvious talents… 🤷

Don’t get me wrong, I do believe it’s wrong (though perhaps not outright cruel, depending on how good the intentions are) to mislead someone to believe they have talent in a field they don’t have. But the alternative is not to tell them they have (or probably have) no talents whatsoever. Instead, the better option is to gently encourage them to explore other possibilities until they happen upon their talents, if they seem so inclined, while reminding them that, while they may never find their talent (as there are millions of things you could be talented at, and no one could live long enough to explore them all, so some people might not find theirs in this life), if pursuing their talents is important enough to them, then it will be worth the journey of searching.

To sum all that up, it’s possible that everybody has talent (even by the strict “special” ability definition"), but that some will never discover theirs. Because it’s possible to miss out on finding your talent, you’d do well to not base your happiness on *finding *it. But it’s perfectly commendable to search for it, and I think it would be unwarranted and perhaps cruel to tell someone that the search is useless.

Now, if by “talent” you get even more narrow and say that only discovered ability counts, then you would have a point, but if you get that narrow, then it would mean that even the greats such as Mozart, etc., were only talented because they happened to be in situations where they discovered their abilities, which is not the way most people would use the word…

One more thing: Just because everybody had talent wouldn’t diminish the meaning of the word. Because not everyone has talent at the same things, and it’s the differences that make the talents special. 🙂

Blessings in Christ,
KindredSoul
 
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