Mozetta?

[TheMc]

matthewfsheehan.net/DisplayPages/Products/ProductImages/dt_sc00130548.jpg

Just a question. What is this thing called? I’m pretty sure it’s not a mozetta, since the front is open (unless maybe it’s a legit varation of one). Just to be clear, this would be worn over a red cassock and white surplice. It’s almost exactly what the canons at St. John Cantious wear.

So is there any more of a technical name for this beside “sholder cape” (I think I saw this somewhere) or “elbow cape” (the name they are sold by)

I’m looking into instituting them in my parish as part of a rank system and overall liturgical renewal, especially since Fr. Z supports them.

 

[MarkThompson]

matthewfsheehan.net/DisplayPages/Products/ProductImages/dt_sc00130548.jpg

Just a question. What is this thing called? I’m pretty sure it’s not a mozetta, since the front is open (unless maybe it’s a legit varation of one). Just to be clear, this would be worn over a red cassock and white surplice. It’s almost exactly what the canons at St. John Cantious wear.

So is there any more of a technical name for this beside “sholder cape” (I think I saw this somewhere) or “elbow cape” (the name they are sold by)

I’m looking into instituting them in my parish as part of a rank system and overall liturgical renewal, especially since Fr. Z supports them.

With all due respect to Father Z, he is utterly wrong that "t is good to build some hierarchy and distinctive signs and badges into a corps of altar boys," at least as it concerns what goes on during Mass. Altar boys are at the service of the liturgy; the liturgy is not at the service of gratifying their vanity and creating social strata among them. What goes on “behind closed doors” is one thing (a senior altar boy might well be put in charge of leading the vesting prayers for all of them), but unnecessary and distracting variations in vestments promote absolutely the wrong idea about what is important. When altar service is done properly, the servers should seem almost to vanish. Anything – a “badge,” Father Z says! – that makes them needlessly stick out is putting the server* in front of the service, and so does a disservice to the liturgy. Their “rank” in the servers’ club is irrelevant to the divine service in the liturgy, and it ought therefore to be suppressed vigorously rather than emphasized. This ought also to be explained to the servers, who, if they are good, should welcome the opportunity to submit in their individualism to the group and the Church. There are a dozen or so Gospel verses (“When you fast …”, “They broaden their phylacteries …”, “He who would exalt himself …”) that come to mind. No one who would claim for himself a special “badge” and parade about with it at Mass can really have been fit for altar service at all.*

 

[YoungTradCath]

I disagree with Fr. Z for once, thereby agreeing with Mark.

Although, if all the altar boys wore them, I think it would be fine.

 

[TheMc]

I disagree with Fr. Z for once, thereby agreeing with Mark.

Although, if all the altar boys wore them, I think it would be fine.

I guess I could have explained myself better. It wouldn’t be rank per se as much as it would be role, or possibly just everyone, as YoungTradCath said. For example, maybe the MC, server 1 and server 2 would wear them. That’s more of what I had in mind.

So, Mark, with your great knowledge, and that cleared up, do you know of any official name?

 

[JGMendes4049]

Looks like it could maybe be a wicked fancy pellegrina. However, Wikipedia states that: "t differs from the mozzetta also in not being associated with a cotta, surplice or rochet." I personally think they look hideous.

 

[TheMc]

I personally think they look hideous.

It looks weird in the picture, but I can assure you that with a cassock of the same color, and a nice surplice, they look much more dignified.

 

[MarkThompson]

I guess I could have explained myself better. It wouldn’t be rank per se as much as it would be role, or possibly just everyone, as YoungTradCath said. For example, maybe the MC, server 1 and server 2 would wear them. That’s more of what I had in mind.

If it is everybody, I suppose that is one thing; but if only certain servers are wearing them then it is a confusing clericalization, likely to mislead people into thinking that those servers are in the seminary or in minor orders or otherwise to be distinguished. I agree with you that “it looks cool,” but that is not a sufficient reason to be innovative about costume, when you have no existing tradition of wearing such garments. Rochets and pectoral crosses “look cool” too.

Moreover, the ability to wear certain specialized garments, like shoulder capes, was traditionally granted as a privilege to certain prelates, chapters, canons, or orders. Does your priest have the privilege of wearing a shoulder cape with his cassock? I didn’t think so. Altar boys, theoretically speaking, are standing in for clergy, and it therefore seems very wrong for the servers of a church to adopt for themselves some ecclesiastical privilege that the clergy of the church themselves could not exercise.

So, Mark, with your great knowledge, and that cleared up, do you know of any official name?

I did research it before giving my previous answer, but wasn’t able to decide whether to call it a pellegrina, a mantellina, or, generically, a cappa. Sometimes these things have multiple names, or no particular special name at all. I assume the fringe in your image was extraneous?

 

[JGMendes4049]

Moreover, the ability to wear certain specialized garments, like shoulder capes, was traditionally granted as a privilege to certain prelates, chapters, canons, or orders. Does your priest have the privilege of wearing a shoulder cape with his cassock? I didn’t think so. Altar boys, theoretically speaking, are standing in for clergy, and it therefore seems very wrong for the servers of a church to adopt for themselves some ecclesiastical privilege that the clergy of the church themselves could not exercise.

TheMc belongs to a cathedral parish, so technically, yes, his priest (the bishop) does have the right to wear a shoulder cape with his cassock. But, the whole outranking-the-priest thing is one of the reasons I dislike those things; servers, in my opinion, should be wearing either cassock and surplice or amice, alb, and cincture, and that’s it. Just my :twocents:.

 

[YoungTradCath]

If it is everybody, I suppose that is one thing; but if only certain servers are wearing them then it is a confusing clericalization, likely to mislead people into thinking that those servers are in the seminary or in minor orders or otherwise to be distinguished. I agree with you that “it looks cool,” but that is not a sufficient reason to be innovative about costume, when you have no existing tradition of wearing such garments. Rochets and pectoral crosses “look cool” too.

Moreover, the ability to wear certain specialized garments, like shoulder capes, was traditionally granted as a privilege to certain prelates, chapters, canons, or orders. Does your priest have the privilege of wearing a shoulder cape with his cassock? I didn’t think so. Altar boys, theoretically speaking, are standing in for clergy, and it therefore seems very wrong for the servers of a church to adopt for themselves some ecclesiastical privilege that the clergy of the church themselves could not exercise.

I did research it before giving my previous answer, but wasn’t able to decide whether to call it a pellegrina, a mantellina, or, generically, a cappa. Sometimes these things have multiple names, or no particular special name at all. I assume the fringe in your image was extraneous?

Along this pectoral cross line, are crosses suspended on a cord allowed for altar servers? The reason I ask is because the altar servers at my church do wear them.

 

[TheMc]

Along this pectoral cross line, are crosses suspended on a cord allowed for altar servers? The reason I ask is because the altar servers at my church do wear them.

They also do at my other parish. It seems to be quite common. But maybe the differentiating aspect is the distinctive pectoral cross chord used by bishops? IDK.

http://www.matthewfsheehan.net/DisplayPages/Products/ProductImages/en_green-cord.jpg

 

[JGMendes4049]

They also do at my other parish. It seems to be quite common. But maybe the differentiating aspect is the distinctive pectoral cross chord used by bishops? IDK.

They use them at my parish too. They’re crucifixes with a Saint Benedict medal underneath the corpus. But, of course, they aren’t blessed with the full Saint Benedict medal exorcism stuff. Technically, a pectoral cross should be a cross, id est, sans corpus. The ones we use are on a black cord. Therefore, I don’t believe they are not okay to wear.

 

[YoungTradCath]

The ones they wear here are these cheap, horrid variety plastic things with some weird dove or something on them.

 

[TheMc]

The ones they wear here are these cheap, horrid variety plastic things with some weird dove or something on them.

I hate those things.

 

[AJV]

I did research it before giving my previous answer, but wasn’t able to decide whether to call it a pellegrina, a mantellina, or, generically, a cappa. Sometimes these things have multiple names, or no particular special name at all. I assume the fringe in your image was extraneous?

And sometimes they just have foreign (usually Italian) names that is the normal word for that type of garment in that language. Not to go all Fortescue on you.

I know the Wikipedia page links to the shoulder cape on a simar and describes that as a pellegrina but I think that is a mistake – or, mor elikely, a usage I just don’t know about. Pellegrina in older books describes a type of outdoor garment in the same category as cloaks, overcoats, etc. and was like a waist high cloak, worn “mozetta style” i.e. closed in the front, though it was only fastened at the collar. A similar garment is what is intended by the word mantellina, which could in that period, also denote a similar garment worn by women - almost like a small shawl.

 

[JGMendes4049]

We wear this on a black cord (sorry it’s a big picture):

http://www.catholicchapterhouse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/StBenedictCrucifix.png

 

[AJV]

Along this pectoral cross line, are crosses suspended on a cord allowed for altar servers? The reason I ask is because the altar servers at my church do wear them.

A pectoral cross is usually distinguished by (a) being made of a noble material (b) of medium proportion such that it is clearly visible (like about 4.5 to 6 inches) (c) must be worn over the breast (d) should not usually have a corpus, though this custom is often flouted nowadays.

Mind you, I think (b) and (c) are the most important – because even if the material is not noble, if you are wearing that large a cross over your chest, you’re probably aiming to ape the pectoral cross., or in the very least confusing people - which is why I think male religious who wear one as part of the habit typically tuck it into the sash to avoid confusion.

Thus for example, some male religious (the only ones coming to mind now are the Passionists and Redemptorists in the old formal garb, but there’s at least one more, the name has slipped my mind…they dress in white…) have a large crucifix, which they wear tucked into a belt. Similarly, some female religious have a small, metal crucifix or cross, that they were on a simple chain or string around the neck. Neither of these count as pectorals.

 

[YoungTradCath]

A pectoral cross is usually distinguished by (a) being made of a noble material (b) of medium proportion such that it is clearly visible (like about 4.5 to 6 inches) (c) must be worn over the breast (d) should not usually have a corpus, though this custom is often flouted nowadays.

Mind you, I think (b) and (c) are the most important – because even if the material is not noble, if you are wearing that large a cross over your chest, you’re probably aiming to ape the pectoral cross., or in the very least confusing people - which is why I think male religious who wear one as part of the habit typically tuck it into the sash to avoid confusion.

Thus for example, some male religious (the only ones coming to mind now are the Passionists and Redemptorists in the old formal garb, but there’s at least one more, the name has slipped my mind…they dress in white…) have a large crucifix, which they wear tucked into a belt. Similarly, some female religious have a small, metal crucifix or cross, that they were on a simple chain or string around the neck. Neither of these count as pectorals.

Yeah. The altar servers here wear these massive things.

 

[AJV]

matthewfsheehan.net/DisplayPages/Products/ProductImages/dt_sc00130548.jpg

Just a question. What is this thing called? I’m pretty sure it’s not a mozetta, since the front is open (unless maybe it’s a legit varation of one). Just to be clear, this would be worn over a red cassock and white surplice. It’s almost exactly what the canons at St. John Cantious wear.

It is a “legit variation” on the mozzetta, most often seen formerly (and still seen in some places) on certain types of Pastors in Europe but removed by Per Instructionem as a form of choral dress. I think it is one reason why Nainfa says that “irremovable parish priests” may wear the simar - he is thinking of the connection between the two.

 

[AJV]

And sometimes they just have foreign (usually Italian) names that is the normal word for that type of garment in that language. Not to go all Fortescue on you.

I know the Wikipedia page links to the shoulder cape on a simar and describes that as a pellegrina but I think that is a mistake – or, more likely, a usage I just don’t know about. Pellegrina in older books (blah blah).

Goes to show one should not speak in haste - reading Moroni yesterday, I happened to come across the entry for a simar and it says “e’ una sottana con di piu’ una piccola pellegrina o bavero intorno al collo”