Mr. Spock or Mr. Data?

[SMHW]

What was the “change” that Kirk made that allowed him to beat the Kobayashi Maru? .

I never read the novel but I understand it is by Julia Ecklar. Apparently Kirk reprograms the simulation in such a manner that the Klingons recognize Kirk and help him save the the disabled freighter. Since I didn’t read it, I have no idea why recognizing a young Kirk would elicit such a reaction from the Klingons. At a later date it would probably have guaranteed an attack.

My poor family suffers enough from my internet and Star Wars novels obsessions. I’ve tried to create a bit more time for them by refraining from reading Star Trek novels.

 

[Kuryakyn]

“Crying is one of those things caused by your unseemly human emotions. As a Vulcan, I see no reason to stand here and continue to be insulted, Captain.”

lol

Seriously, as a real Trekker, I prefer Captain Spock(his rank at the end) over Data. Spock was always logical and as a result, always correct.

He also grew more as a character over all these years! If you think back to “The Cage”, and how “rigid” he was, and think forward to “Undiscovered Country”, you see a more substantial change in Spock than in Data. Just think of Spock’s last line in that film: “If I were human, I believe my answer would be…go…to…hell…If I were human!” (This was when Uhura announced that they had just received a message from Starfleet to put back to spacedock, to be de-commissioned. The camera panned the other characters before finally stopping at Spock.) There is no WAY we would have EVER imagined Spock coming up with a line like that in his early years.

Logical. Flawlessly logical.

Live Long and Prosper.

An excellent dissertation on the obvious superiority of Spock.

Hey, c’mon, Data was just there so they could have a new Spock-like character on TNG.

 

[PastGrandKnight]

I never read the novel but I understand it is by Julia Ecklar. Apparently Kirk reprograms the simulation in such a manner that the Klingons recognize Kirk and help him save the the disabled freighter. Since I didn’t read it, I have no idea why recognizing a young Kirk would elicit such a reaction from the Klingons. At a later date it would probably have guaranteed an attack.

My poor family suffers enough from my internet and Star Wars novels obsessions. I’ve tried to create a bit more time for them by refraining from reading Star Trek novels.

Very good, but there is more to it.

The “change” that Kirk made was that the “Klingons” would recognize him…NOT as a young ensign fresh out of Starfleet Academy. Rather, they would recognize him as a Captain who had been “out there” for many years. Thus, when he addresses the enemy, he says “This is Captain James T. Kirk”, and the enemy responds with “THEEEEEEEEE Captain James T. Kirk?” Right away, they know he is a formidable person who has already earned their respect (in other words, they’re afraid of him!). Being afraid of the “veteran” Captain Kirk, they allow him to proceed with “rescue operations” of the Kobayashi Maru.

Logical? Of course, as the story line went, he earned a Commendation for “original thinking”.

Live Long and Prosper.

 

[PastGrandKnight]

An excellent dissertation on the obvious superiority of Spock

Thank you for the compliment. Perhaps it’s the result of being able to compare the two characters over a long period of years.

By the way, you may recall another scene between Spock and Valeris, where he says: “Logic is not the end of wisdom, It is but the beginning”. A younger Spock would never have made such a statement to an up-and-coming Vulcan officer. Thus, it showed even more growth on his part.

We never really saw any similar growth with Data, although it was clear that Data did evolve over the years. (Personally, I think that Worf “grew” more than Data, but that’s just an opinion.)

 

[Zooey]

“Crying is one of those things caused by your unseemly human emotions. As a Vulcan, I see no reason to stand here and continue to be insulted, Captain.”

lol

Seriously, as a real Trekker, I prefer CaptainSpock(his rank at the end) over Data. Spock was always logical and as a result, always correct.

He also grew more as a character over all these years! If you think back to “The Cage”, and how “rigid” he was, and think forward to “Undiscovered Country”, you see a more substantial change in Spock than in Data. Just think of Spock’s last line in that film: “If I were human, I believe my answer would be…go…to…hell…If I were human!” (This was when Uhura announced that they had just received a message from Starfleet to put back to spacedock, to be de-commissioned. The camera panned the other characters before finally stopping at Spock.) There is no WAY we would have EVER imagined Spock coming up with a line like that in his early years.

Logical. Flawlessly logical.

Live Long and Prosper.

Spock hands down–if you say otherwise, I’ll give you the Vulcan nerve pinch.

You and me both!!!

 

[Clonereject1138]

Spock. You gotta love a guy who will die if he laughs. What a way to go.

 

[DaveBj]

This isn’t too much of a bunny trail, so I’m going to include it.

Trace the mind melds:

Spock melds with Kirk in the original series ep where he loses his memory on a world with a pseudo-Native-American culture.

Sarek melds with Picard in the ST-TNG ep where he is losing his mind, but he needs stability to conduct diplomatic negotiations.

Spock, in the ST-TNG double-ep where he eventually stays on Romulus to help the pro-Vulcan underground, melds with Picard so Picard can share Sarek’s love for his son.

However, in that last meld, Picard should also have picked up Kirk’s knowledge. I’ve always wondered why they never made anything of that.

Back on topic, in that same ST-TNG double-ep there was an interesting conversation between Spock and Data, where Spock said to the effect that he found Picard to be the most Vulcan-like of any human he had ever known. Data found that “intriguing,” because Picard was his role model in his quest to become more human.

Go figure.

 

[Hastrman]

However, in that last meld, Picard should also have picked up Kirk’s knowledge. I’ve always wondered why they never made anything of that.

I don’t think a mind-meld/telepathic link is like VD.

Does Vulcan have posters in high school bathrooms saying, “If you meld with his/her mind, your melding with every other mind they’ve melded with?”