mr

  • Thread starter Thread starter buddy123
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

buddy123

Guest
For the 3rd time I ASK (is a Deacon allowed to preach the omily on a regular basis during Mass when the Pastor is in attendance and Available)?
 
Yes, reading the Gospel and preaching the homily are the proper roles of a Deacon at Mass.
 
The 3rd time? Why would this not be part of a deacon? It is the proper place of the Deacon.
 
Yes, if the priest wants him to do it every mass and he agrees there’s nothing that’s says different.
 
buddy123 said:
For the 3rd time I ASK (is a Deacon allowed to preach the omily on a regular basis during Mass when the Pastor is in attendance and Available)?
Click to expand...
This is your first post, so it must be the first time asking here! 😉

Yes, it is the deacon’s duties to read the Gospel and then also give the homily if the priests wants him to do so.
 
Ok, I’ll be the one who introduces confusion and say personally I’m not so sure. I thought there had to be a specific reason for the deacon to preach the homily instead of the priest, as opposed to reading the Gospel which of course is entirely appropriate to diaconal ministry and could admirably be done at very mass the deacon assists at. But I can’t remember where I heard or read this about the homily, so it might not be true.

I’ll see if I can find a resource answering the question definitively.
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Ok, I’ll be the one who introduces confusion and say personally I’m not so sure. I thought there had to be a specific reason for the deacon to preach the homily instead of the priest, as opposed to reading the Gospel which of course is entirely appropriate to diaconal ministry and could admirably be done at very mass the deacon assists at. But I can’t remember where I heard or read this about the homily, so it might not be true.

I’ll see if I can find a resource answering the question definitively.
Click to expand...
see girm 66
 
So, I just busted out my copy of Mass Revision; How the Liturgy is Changing and What it Means for You by Jimmy Akin and flipped to the section on the homily. As I remembered the section about who may give the homily focuses on lay people and religious other than priests and deacons, showing how they may never preach the homily (currently that is; it was allowed for a few years on an experimental basis but that is history). But it did cite a document that sheds some light on the subject of deacons giving homilies, though not as definitive as I would like about under what circumstances a deacon may preach:

The quote is from the General Instruction of the Roman Missal. It reads: “The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person. In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.”
 
FatHead said:
see girm 66
Click to expand...
That’s what this citation was from.

Edit: In another part of the book Jimmy Akin says that the GIRM “is part of the Church’s universal liturgical law and is binding on all Latin rite celebrations of the liturgy. It gives general information about the Mass and how it is to be celebrated.”

Sounds like it’s pretty solid that the regular preaching of the homily by the deacon when a perfectly capable priest celebrant is there would not be in keeping with the Church’s norms, though occasional preaching would be ok and I don’t know that there is a clear legal definition of what kind of frequency would count as occasional. Personally I would give your parish clergy the benefit of the doubt that they believe themselves to be following Church norms on this as long as it’s at less than half the masses, unless the matter is clarified somewhere else, and anyway even if it is half or over half the masses I think I would “save my ammo” for a more important liturgical abuse and not make a stink about it.
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Sounds like it’s pretty solid that the regular preaching of the homily by the deacon when a perfectly capable priest celebrant is there would not be in keeping with the Church’s norms, though occasional preaching would be ok and I don’t know that there is a clear legal definition of what kind of frequency would count as occasional. Personally I would give your parish clergy the benefit of the doubt that they believe themselves to be following Church norms on this as long as it’s at less than half the masses, unless the matter is clarified somewhere else, and anyway even if it is half or over half the masses I think I would “save my ammo” for a more important liturgical abuse and not make a stink about it.
Click to expand...
What is “regular” preaching? If a parish has a priest and a couple of deacons with five masses and a retired priest who says a mass on Sunday morning, what would be “regular” preaching? If the pastor says four masses, does he have to preach at all of them? Is the retired priest required to preach at all? Let’s suppose this:

Saturday 6 p.m.: Pastor with Deacon #1: Pastor preaches.
Sunday 7 a.m.: Pastor with no deacon: Pastor preaches.
Sunday 9 a.m.: Retired priest with Deacon #1: Deacon preaches.
Sunday 10:30 a.m.: Spanish Mass: Priest with Deacon #2. Deacon is more articulate in Spanish so Deacon #2 preaches.

Now at the Sunday 12:30.: What happens. Pastor has delivered two homilies this Sunday. Is that regular enough? What does “regular” mean? It would seem as far as a “regular” preaching schedule, he’s preached at two of the Masses. He’s assigned out the two"occasional" homilies to his deacons (the Mass with the retired priest who just wants to say Mass and not preach; the Mass in the language in which he feels uncomfortable preaching in.) What if he wants to give Deacon #2 a chance to say his superb homily in English?

What if he wants to rest his energies because he has to go say Mass at a mission church 50 miles out in the country or at the local prison? Priests are people and get tired and need to pace themselves.

My guess is that the definition of “regular” is left to the sound discretion of priests and their bishops.
 
PacoG said:
What is “regular” preaching? If a parish has a priest and a couple of deacons with five masses and a retired priest who says a mass on Sunday morning, what would be “regular” preaching? If the pastor says four masses, does he have to preach at all of them? Is the retired priest required to preach at all? Let’s suppose this:

Saturday 6 p.m.: Pastor with Deacon #1: Pastor preaches.
Sunday 7 a.m.: Pastor with no deacon: Pastor preaches.
Sunday 9 a.m.: Retired priest with Deacon #1: Deacon preaches.
Sunday 10:30 a.m.: Spanish Mass: Priest with Deacon #2. Deacon is more articulate in Spanish so Deacon #2 preaches.

Now at the Sunday 12:30.: What happens. Pastor has delivered two homilies this Sunday. Is that regular enough? What does “regular” mean? It would seem as far as a “regular” preaching schedule, he’s preached at two of the Masses. He’s assigned out the two"occasional" homilies to his deacons (the Mass with the retired priest who just wants to say Mass and not preach; the Mass in the language in which he feels uncomfortable preaching in.) What if he wants to give Deacon #2 a chance to say his superb homily in English?

What if he wants to rest his energies because he has to go say Mass at a mission church 50 miles out in the country or at the local prison? Priests are people and get tired and need to pace themselves.

My guess is that the definition of “regular” is left to the sound discretion of priests and their bishops.
Click to expand...
It’s the OP who introduced the word “regular”, in his original question, which is why I brought the word into my answer (and by the way the question was not whether the priest has to preach regularly but whether deacons may). My main point agreed with your main point though, that the matter seems to have been left vague. Let me point out though that the actual word in the GIRM to consider is “occasionally”. What does it mean for the priest to delegate the homily to the deacon “occasionally, according to circumstances”?
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Ok, I’ll be the one who introduces confusion and say personally I’m not so sure. I thought there had to be a specific reason for the deacon to preach the homily instead of the priest, as opposed to reading the Gospel which of course is entirely appropriate to diaconal ministry and could admirably be done at very mass the deacon assists at. But I can’t remember where I heard or read this about the homily, so it might not be true.

I’ll see if I can find a resource answering the question definitively.
Click to expand...
Here it is:

[66.] The Homily should ordinarily be given by the Priest Celebrant himself or be entrusted by him to a concelebrating Priest, or from time to time and, if appropriate, to the Deacon, but never to a lay person. . . .
—General Instruction of the Roman Missal 2011​

I take that to mean that while it’s always allowed, it should be done “from time to time” and “if appropriate,” and only if the principal celebrant agrees.
 
Really if God gave the Deacon that gift and not the Pastor - maybe the Deacon should be giving homilies more than occasionally.
 
JGMendes4049 said:
Here it is:

[66.] The Homily should ordinarily be given by the Priest Celebrant himself or be entrusted by him to a concelebrating Priest, or from time to time and, if appropriate, to the Deacon, but never to a lay person. . . .
—General Instruction of the Roman Missal 2011​

I take that to mean that while it’s always allowed, it should be done “from time to time” and “if appropriate,” and only if the principal celebrant agrees.
Click to expand...
Funny, that’s worded differently than the version in the book which ought to have been the 2011 edition, and even more vague and open to various different interpretations. An error has been introduced somewhere. Either Jimmy missed that passage in his updating of his book or the GIRM quote you’ve provided is not in fact from the 2011 edition but from an earlier edition. What is your source?
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Funny, that’s worded differently than the version in the book which ought to have been the 2011 edition, and even more vague and open to various different interpretations. An error has been introduced somewhere. Either Jimmy missed that passage in his updating of his book or the GIRM quote you’ve provided is not in fact from the 2011 edition but from an earlier edition. What is your source?
Click to expand...
Your quote from Akins’ book:

“The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person. In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.”

%between% The recently revised version of the GIRM on both the USCCB’s and CCCB’s websites:
  1. The Homily should ordinarily be given by the Priest Celebrant himself or be entrusted by him to a concelebrating Priest, or from time to time and, if appropriate, to the Deacon, but never to a lay person.[64] In particular cases and for a just cause, the Homily may even be given by a Bishop or a Priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.
 
Hmmm. Looks like Akin’s quote is outdated then. Perhaps the Church is subtly retreating from the position that the homily should ordinarily be given by the celebrant.
 
Really if God gave the Deacon that gift and not the Pastor - maybe the Deacon should be giving homilies more than occasionally.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top