Mt 27:46

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"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice “E’li , lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”

Ok I understand that He is revering to Ps 22:1 and that it is a triumphant Psalm, but what does Jesus mean when He says this. Did God really turn His back on Jesus? And if He did can someone explain to me how God could turn His back on Himself? I have been having a discussion with a non-Catholic christian who said that God literally turned His back on Jesus at that moment. Is this correct?

This passage has me confused, hopefully someone can explain to me what Jesus meant when He said this.

Thanks and God Bless
 
God is not turning his back on “himself”, in any case. Remember that the Father and the Son are two persons in the one Godhead… Be careful not to fall into that trap.

Also, when you say “God AND Jesus” it makes it sound like Jesus was not God. I know it sounds nitpicky, but these are actually very important distinctions.
 
As to why Jesus said this in the first place, my understanding is that it was to fulfill prophecy. I think the Father looked away from “forsaked” Jesus for that moment when he bore the burden of all of humanity’s sin. Not quite sure on the metaphysics of how it all works, though… :o
 
exoflare said:
God is not turning his back on “himself”, in any case. Remember that the Father and the Son are two persons in the one Godhead… Be careful not to fall into that trap.

Also, when you say “God AND Jesus” it makes it sound like Jesus was not God. I know it sounds nitpicky, but these are actually very important distinctions.
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That doesnt sound nitpicky at all. This is actually what I said, how could He turn His back on Himself. My friend said that at that moment on Calvary when Jesus said that He was not triumphant (all though the finished work was) because Jesus was in such pain and anguish and God had turned His back on Him( Foresaken him). He said “God had turned His back on Jesus, Jesus even says so” I told him that the Psalm was a triumphant Psalm but he thinks God didnt mean it to reference the Psalm but to actually ask why God had turned His back on Him. This sounded weird to me so I didnt want to pursue it until I asked what everyone here thought.

Thanks for the response! God Bless
 
Read the entirety of Ps 22, it is in fact a glorification of God! I read one article on the Passion that said Jesus probably would have recited the whole thing, but the pressure on his lungs etc. was so bad just to even take a breath while on the cross, all He could do was say the words he did.
 
Roman_Catholic said:
This passage has me confused, hopefully someone can explain to me what Jesus meant when He said this.*

This is a passage that bothered me also - to the point that I refused to even think about it for a long time. When the Passion was read, I would deliberately try to think of something else when it came to that part! But God eventually broke thru the wall I put up. These are some of the thoughts I have now about that passage. They’re only my private interpretation, but I don’t think there is anything in them that contradicts Church teaching.

Jesus is one Person (God the Son), but has 2 distinct natures - human and divine. (Something its impossible for us to comprehend, yet it is true.) In His human nature, He had/has a human body and a human soul (intellect, will). He experiences things as a human does; has human emotions. When He is crucified, it is His human nature that is crucified - it is His human body and soul that is undergoing the consequences of human sin - namely separation from God, pain and suffering. The Divine 2nd Person of the Trinity calls out, in/from His human nature, all the anguish He is experiencing - *His humanity cries “My God, my God, why hast Thou abandoned Me.” *His humanity experiences what feels like abandonment.

It’s difficult for me to put some things into words. I don’t believe God the Father ever abandoned God the Son in the crucifixion. It’s more like the poem “Footprints” - the human soul feels like it has been abandoned by God. God allows the human soul of Jesus to experience what abandonment feels like. (There have been saints who have experienced something similar, especially “victim souls”.) And yet, there is only one Person. It’s as tho the Divine Person expresses what His human nature is undergoing/experiencing.

I don’t know if this helps - or only makes it more confusing. As I said, some things are just difficult to put into words - especially when they’re mysteries!

Nita
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Nita, that’s not really true, and that’s not what Ps 22 says. From various commentaries:

Even in death, Jesus remains the righteous sufferer of Psalm 22. His last words (v. 46) are a direct quotation from Ps 22:1.

Here Jesus quotes Psalm 22:1, which may have been part of the Scripture recitation at this time of day. His opponents do not pause to consider that the psalm ends with the sufferer’s vindication and triumph (Ps 22:25–31).

Christ was quoting from Ps. 22 and may have been alluding to the great victory that the psalm describes.
 
awalt said:
Nita, that’s not really true, and that’s not what Ps 22 says. From various commentaries:
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Could you be a little more specific about which sentences in my response you consider untrue?

I know its the first line of Ps 22 and I know the psalm ends in triumph. Jesus, in agony on the cross knew His sacrifice would end in triumph. But I thought we were discussing the first line which is an expression of agony He was experiencing. (Actually, the first 21 verses describe the agony He is undergoing.) Or are you saying you don’t think He experienced agony and abandonment by God?

Nita
 
Given the nature of the Psalm, I don’t think Jesus’ overwhelming emotion was abandonment - I think he was truly going to recite Ps 22 if he could. His will was completely of the Father’s, so he wouldn’t have made such a big issue of the abandonment - he chose that Psalm because one could perceive him feeling that way, when in fact he was glorifying the Father in the Father’s plan, and to His dying breath that’s all he cared about. A wonderful lesson for us!
 
Awalt,
Are you saying that Jesus was so enrapt in glorifying and doing the Father’s will that it essentially blocked out the suffering?
If that were true, why would He have sweat blood in the Garden of Gethsemane, and implored the Father three times that if it be possible to let the cup pass?
Nita
 
But we should also remember that this cry of Jesus quotes Psalm 22. It was a custom in Judaism at the time that if one person said the first line of a psalm, the rest of the people would conclude it. This is like when a Catholic says, “Our Father,” and everybody else joins in. So, given that the Twenty-second Psalm begins with this cry of despair but moves through it and concludes with a sense of God’s deliverance, there is a message of suffering and transformation that we all are invited to repeat following the model of Jesus.
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By Father Leo Lefebure in Transforming Suffering
 
If you still have any doubts as to whether he wanted to invoke the entire Psalm by reciting the first line (btw, Peter does the same thing at Pentecost by quoting a line from the prophecy of Joel), even Jesus’ last words, “Father, into your hands I commend my Spirit” is yet another line from another Psalm - Psalm 31, verse 6. This Psalm is similar to Psalm 22 for it ends in glorifying the Lord.

By invoking this Psalm, Jesus with His last words on the Cross gives us yet another reason to have Faith, for the last two lines of this Psalms say:
*** Love the LORD, all you faithful. The LORD protects the loyal, but repays the arrogant in full. Be strong and take heart, all you who hope in the LORD***
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NotWorthy said:
If you still have any doubts as to whether he wanted to invoke the entire Psalm by reciting the first line (btw, Peter does the same thing at Pentecost by quoting a line from the prophecy of Joel), even Jesus’ last words, “Father, into your hands I commend my Spirit” is yet another line from another Psalm - Psalm 31, verse 6. This Psalm is similar to Psalm 22 for it ends in glorifying the Lord.

By invoking this Psalm, Jesus with His last words on the Cross gives us yet another reason to have Faith, for the last two lines of this Psalms say:
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I agree with you.

“If you still have any doubts…” Reread all the posts and wondered if this was meant for me. I never doubted Jesus was invoking the whole Psalm and am sorry if I gave that impression. But it was the WHOLE psalm, including those that express pain and suffering. To focus on the final verses of triumph and use them to override the earlier verses is not the way I understand Jesus use of the psalm. It didn’t satisfy Roman Catholic’s acquaintance either. What I attempted to do was offer an explanation of how the first verse really did apply (which Roman Catholic could give to his friend) , but that it didn’t mean God the Father had literally “turned his back on Jesus” as his friend thought. Guess I didn’t do a very good job in getting my thoughts across.

Happy Sunday, the day of Ressurection,
Nita
 
Amen, Nita!!! And I wasn’t directing it at you, just whoever has doubts that Jesus was comforting the people at the Cross as well as all Christians even as He was giving his last breath!!!

What a Man! What a God!!!

P.S. You may also notice that there is no more mention of people heckling Jesus after his words in Matthew. I think they may have understood that they were the recipients of a back-handed “slap” form Jesus, as well.
 
You must not imagine that the Savior said this after the manner of men by reason of the misery which encompassed Him on the cross; for if you take it so you will not hear His loud voice and mighty words which point to something great hidden. The Savior said this as bearing about with Him our feelings, who when placed in dangers think ourselves forsaken by God. Human nature was forsaken by God because of its sins, and the Son of God becoming our Advocate laments the misery of those whose guilt He took upon Him; therein showing how they who sin ought to mourn, when He who never sinned did thus mourn.
 
Curious that a “Bible Christian” would have an answer like that. You need to ask him where is that answer in the Bible. Sounds like a Protestant unBiblical tradition.

Contrast this answer to the Catholic Biblical answer which is in the Bible, Psalm 22. Jesus quoted only the first verse, but that was enough to invoke the whole Psalm in the minds of those around the crucifiction. This was Jesus’ way to declare victory.
 
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