Muhammad and Women

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Valke2

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I read something very interesting today that paints quite a different picture of Muhammad then I’ve seen discussed here.

Muhammmed is acknowledged historically as a strong advocate of women’s rights for his time. In a society that was violently patriarchal, Muhammed was in favor for choice and rights for women. Such a position was contrary to the then common abuses of women in tribal society.

“All people are equal, as equal as the teeth of a comb. There is no claim of merit of an Arab over a non-Arab, or of a white over a black person, or of a male over a female. He who honors women is honorable, he who insults them is lowly and mean.” - Muhammmad.

“He who has a female child and does not insult her and does not prefer his sons over her, will be ushered by God into paradise.” - Muhammad.

One of the last words he said before he died: “I urge you to treat women kindly. They are a trust. Be in awe of God’s trust.”

Additionally, the Quran states that sex is to take place in marriage only. This rule effectively stamped out prostitiution, which was rampant during Muhammad’s time.

Before Islam, women were treated as property. Islam established rules that granted women the right to initiate divorce, and a trust fund established before marriage in the woman’s name so that she would have some money in case of divroce. Woimen were also allowed to inherit under islamic law. Islam gave Women the right to own property 1300 years before Western culture established it as a right.

Admittedly, as Ana Matt has stated, Islam seems to have strayed from Muhammad’s stand on behalf of women.

Anyway, all of this I got from Matthew Fox’s book “One River, Many Wells.”
it was refreshing to read something positive aobut Muhammad and women.
 
Matthew Fox? Is that former catholic priest, convert to new age mysticism Matthew Fox? If so, what does he have to do with Islam?
 
manualman said:
Matthew Fox? Is that former catholic priest, convert to new age mysticism Matthew Fox? If so, what does he have to do with Islam?
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I don’t know abou thte new age stuff but I think it is the same one. He uses quotes from propehtes, mystics etc from varioius religions to discuss different aspects of the Divine.
 
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah’s Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, “O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” They asked, “Why is it so, O Allah’s Apostle ?” He replied, “You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?” He said, “Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?” They replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?” The women replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her religion.” (Book #6, Hadith #301)
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Muslims may acknowledge Mohamed as a historical advocate for women, but not many others do. Even taking 7th century Arabia in context to other 7th century societies, women were/are property if they are Muslim. If they are non-muslim they have no rights at all. These conditions exist for women today meaning they were as unjust and unfair then as now. As with everything Mohamed, it is always conditional.
 
Verisimilitude said:
Muslims may acknowledge Mohamed as a historical advocate for women, but not many others do. Even taking 7th century Arabia in context to other 7th century societies, women were/are property if they are Muslim. If they are non-muslim they have no rights at all. These conditions exist for women today meaning they were as unjust and unfair then as now. As with everything Mohamed, it is always conditional.
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As I had stated, Islam today differs from what Muhammad had taught regarding women. Your quote and opinion don’t contradict my OP.

At the time of Muhammad’s birth, women in 7th century Arabia had few if any rights. Even the right of life could be in question, since it was not uncommon for small girls to be buried alive during times of scarcity. In the Qur’an, it is said that on Judgment Day “buried girls” will rise out of their graves and ask for what crime they were killed. Part of Muhammad’s legacy was to end infanticide and establish explicit rights for women.

Islam teaches that men and women are equal before God. It grants women divinely sanctioned inheritance, property, social and marriage rights, including the right to reject the terms of a proposal and to initiate divorce. The American middle-class trend to include a prenuptial agreement in the marriage contract is completely acceptable in Islamic law. In Islam’s early period, women were professionals and property owners, as many are today. Although in some countries today the right of women to initiate divorce is more difficult than intended, this is a function of patriarchal legislation and not an expression of Islamic values. Muhammad himself frequently counseled Muslim men to treat their wives and daughters well. “You have rights over your women,” he is reported to have said, “and your women have rights over you.”
pbs.org/muhammad/ma_women.shtml
 
I don’t know where your quotations are from, Valke2; they seem very good until you read other stuff about women that oppose this image. Allowing men to beat women is not something positive no matter how one looks at it, for example. I don’t know about women before Islam; but Khadija, for example, who was no muslim, was a successful woman before Islam. So saying that Islam changed things drastically for women could be applied with limits since there were successful women who were poetess, merchants, preachers, ecc during Muhammad’s time.
 
In all fairness, Mohammad did raise the status of women in ancient arabia, but it was still far from the ideals of modern gender equality. .
 
Muhammad stated that women’s intelligence was inferior to a man’s and that most of the dwellers of hell were women!

Vickie
 
Amazingly so many non-Muslims are going to such extremes to make Islam and Mohamed in a positive light when neither the Muslims or non-Mulsim apologists can support it.

Mohamed prohibited the killing of female children as was a pagan Arabian practice before Islam and that makes him a modern day defender of womens rights? (To suggest Muslims today are not practicing Islam as Mohamed did…makes the point and justification of UBL. No wonder moderates are afraid to speak up.) He forces them to cover up in a sheet because men might lust after them and sin, and his 2nd wife (child bride) even said it made women equal to dogs. He gave them property rights…if there were no children or brothers or anything that would take away the 1/8 they were permitted.

If the words of Mohamed in the hadith, or the words of mohamed in the quran do not give sufficent evidence that his idea of equality for women much less non-Muslims in general is as undeserving of acolades and high praise…the actions of Muslims over the last 14 centuries should suffice.

If you have ears to hear, and eyes to see…look and listen. It isn’t that hard.
 
If this is the same guy I was thinking of, then he KNOWINGLY (in spite of numerous warnings) taught ideas and principles inherently contradictory to catholicism for years as a catholic priest and passed these ideas off as catholic.

Since he has this track record of falsely portraying the beliefs of a religion, I suggest that one should check his research, quotes and ‘facts’ rather carefully when he claims to teach accurately about Islam.
 
manualman said:
If this is the same guy I was thinking of, then he KNOWINGLY (in spite of numerous warnings) taught ideas and principles inherently contradictory to catholicism for years as a catholic priest and passed these ideas off as catholic.

Since he has this track record of falsely portraying the beliefs of a religion, I suggest that one should check his research, quotes and ‘facts’ rather carefully when he claims to teach accurately about Islam.
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His quotes are basically mirrored in the PBS website on a special on Islam. I haven’t found anything in his quotes that are incorrect (as in misquoted). According to the back cover of his book, Mr. Fox’s theology of Creation Spirituality – the belief that we are born in “original blessing” - resulted in the Vatican censuring him and his dismissal by the Dominican Order in 1995. He is now an Episcopal priest.
 
Valke2 said:
Post No. 4 is not quoting Muhammad or the Quran.
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but it did. read it again. it relays what Mohammad had said.

I’m sure your quotes of mohammad also came from the hadiths. like this: “I urge you to treat women kindly”.
 
Does anyone know why Muhammad forbade his wives from marrying after his death?
 
Booklover said:
Check out this link and this one.

Vickie
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Your links don’t really disprove the asssertion that Muhammad advocated for increased rights for woman. For example while one of your links talks about how men were entitled to twice the inheritance of women, before Muhammad, women weren’t entitled to any inheritance.

No one is suggesting that Muhammad was a Phil Donahue. But he made plenty of statements that make it clear he was in favor of granting women greater rights than they had. It is my understanding that these quotes are often used by women muslims who are seeking equality today.
 
Valke2 said:
Your links don’t really disprove the asssertion that Muhammad advocated for increased rights for woman.
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Yes mohammad did increase women’s rights back in the dark ages, but what do you think about the unwitting side-effect of islam’s static qualities which limits women’s rights to what is written in the koran & hadiths?
 
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