Muhammad, the last prophet and messenger according to the Quran?

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Shenango:
Robert Spencer…he’s certainly a good choice…you should read him if you would read a book by Satan to learn about God.
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That’s what I call defamation.

Plato,

“[Robert] Spencer (MA, Religious Studies, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill) has been studying Islamic theology, law, and history in depth since 1980.”
jihadwatch.org/spencer/

Here is one question and answer, answered by Robert Spencer, taken from jihadwatch.org/spencer/ which has several questions and answers which you should also read in addition to this question and answer

"Q: Why should I believe what you say about Islam?
RS: Because I draw no conclusions of myself, and I do not ask anyone to take anything on my word. Pick up any of my books, and you will see that they are made up largely of quotations from Islamic jihadists and the traditional Islamic sources to which they appeal to justify violence and terrorism. I am only shedding light on what these sources say.

It is amusing to me that some people like to focus on my credentials, when I have never made a secret of the fact that most of what I know about Islam comes from personal study. It is easier for them to talk about degrees than to find any inaccuracy in my work. Yet I present the work not on the basis of my credentials, but on the basis of the evidence I bring forth; evaluate it for yourself. As this site has shown, I am always open to new information."

Here’s a book review of “Inside Islam” by Robert Spencer and Daniel Ali on a Catholic website
theotokos.org.uk/pages/breviews/dfoley/islam.html

Regarding “Inside Islam” by Robert Spencer and Daniel Ali, Fr. Mitch Pacwa states
“No one who is beginning to confront the reality of Islam should be without this book.”
– Fr. Mitch Pacwa, host of EWTN Live and author, Catholics and the New Age

UNDERSTANDING ISLAM AND THE THEOLOGY OF JIHAD
 
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Shenango:
Just a word to the wise…don’t go learning about Islam from Catholic sources. They are often inaccurate, distorted, and even bigoted and wind up as misinformed polemics more than anything else.

The best spokesperson for a religion are members of that religion. I’d never go to a fellow Muslim to learn about Christianity, or tell me what Christians believe. I’m dismayed at the number of people on this site who are only too willing to let Catholics speak for other groups.

If you want to learn about Islam, read a book by a Muslim or ask Muslims for God’s sake…
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I don’t think this is good advice. Better advice would be that Catholics/Christians read both books by Muslims on Islam and by Catholics/Christians on Islam.

Also, sometimes people are only looking for a Catholic/Christian perspective on Islam, if that is the case then they **should ** only read Catholic/Christian books on Islam.

Also, considering dishonesty and deceit in Islam
answering-islam.org/Authors/JR/Future/ch16_understanding_dishonesty.htm

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=90698

I don’t think it would be wise to just rely only on Muslim books, especially when it comes to books on the Islamic belief of Jihad.
 
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discipleofJesus:
I don’t think it would be wise to just rely only on Muslim books, especially when it comes to books on the Islamic belief of Jihad.
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i.e. the Islamic command of Jihad
 
As much of question of Muhammad, I think it is still important where the Quran has its authority - its codification nonetheless - a a Holy Book. Under what authority we can say the Quran is an “inspired” book. Then, we can see whether Muhammad is the last prophet.

When we look into history, then the period of Islam got its “theological” refusal in acepting Jesus is God is the era of more and more Nestorianism that is flourished in Saudi Arabia. A Monophysite movement is pretty much strong in that time. I think we have to put the rise of Islam within the historical context of the great debate on whether Jesus is actually God or not.

The Church stand on Islam is very clear on Nostra Aetate at Vatican Council II document, but it stop short in acknowledging Mohammad and/or the Quran, either as a prophet or inspired book.

Anyone?
 
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ambrosius:
As much of question of Muhammad, I think it is still important where the Quran has its authority - its codification nonetheless - a a Holy Book. Under what authority we can say the Quran is an “inspired” book. Then, we can see whether Muhammad is the last prophet.

When we look into history, then the period of Islam got its “theological” refusal in acepting Jesus is God is the era of more and more Nestorianism that is flourished in Saudi Arabia. A Monophysite movement is pretty much strong in that time. I think we have to put the rise of Islam within the historical context of the great debate on whether Jesus is actually God or not.

The Church stand on Islam is very clear on Nostra Aetate at Vatican Council II document, but it stop short in acknowledging Mohammad and/or the Quran, either as a prophet or inspired book.

Anyone?
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The Koran does not have authority and Mohammed does not have authority.

At the risk of offending Shenango, I do not consider Mohammed to be a prophet of God. I do not believe that he ever saw an angel of God.

Everything he preached goes against Holy Writ. One only has to read the Old Testament book of prophets to see how way off base is the Koran.

Yes, I am being quite harsh in my comments, but I have come to this particular realisation after studying all that is going on in the world that is preached in the name of Mohammed.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that Mohammed was ever a prophet of God. He was a camel driver who was influenced by the Nestorians, the Jews and another local pagan religion. His view of the world was that one either had to convert to his system or die.

When one compares this to the teachings of Jesus Christ there is a stark difference in the preaching and the way in which Christianity was spread throughout the world.

The imams urge young men to become martyrs with the promise that they will enjoy the 72 virgins in heaven. Yet, by killing themselves they are damning their souls to hell. These bombers are murderers, and murderers do not end up in heaven because they are amongst the wicked. What is required to enter into heaven is purity of heart and soul. There will be no sexual delights awaiting those who kill themselves in the name of Allah. So many young men and women are wasting their lives based upon false beliefs.

My views are my own and they are not representative of my faith.
 
Good point Maggie! Need to question Who was Muhammad? What did he do before he claimed to be the last prophet? Who was the angel he claimed to be jibril? How did he run his life? How do the followers now mirroring his actions to the worlds current situation? How could people not insult him(with the risk of being dead!) while Jesus even forgave the thief who insulted him on the cross… How could he marry several women and a child?..etc. Are the questions rised above deserve him to be the (last) prophet and an example for mankind?
 
Maggie, I appreciate your view. Accordingly, I also respect the Church teaching on Islam as stated on Nostra Aetate. The Church stop short in stating Muhammad is a prophet nor the Quran is actually an “inspired” book, however, we still need to find out how the Quran codification is actully done before we enter into either Mohammad is actually a prophet or not.

The fact that within some Sufi movement, there are groups that reverred Jesus as the Word of Allah. And this Sufi group in fact have a different intepretation of the Quran.

Since there is no such thing as “Sacred Tradition” as we know it, except for the so-called “Hadits,” then, again, one has to grasp on how actually the Quran is considered as “an inspired” book.
 
Ambrosius, look at those who claim to be the true muslims and see what have they done. Bali bomber said he only was trying to do what the Quran really wants fm its followers. I.e fight and kill the kafirs. Surprisingly it is not only him who thinks like that but several Islamic leaders that interviewed by local tv station. I think Vatican should review the statement that Islam contains righteousness as a religion. Why not Budha or Hindu??
 
Cyberknight, the Bali bomber cannot represent the view of moslem majority in Indonesia nor its few elite that embodied in some Islamic hardliners group. I should say that this hardliner is really fit in to be classified as “religious banditism.” The fact that some figure like the late Dr. Nurcholis Madjid (got his PhD in Chicago University), or Uli Abdalah from Liberal Islam Forum has been alienated from this so-caled Islamic figure due to their stance against “religious banditism.”

That Bali bomber, in particular Imam Samudra - he just hates everyone. He got his “blanket of reason” from the Quran. He is a patholigical murderer as some of the victims were Moslems. The 2nd Bali bomb is pretty much the same although less foreigners targets but mainly are fellow Indonesian and they are Moslems! Do we still think that these terorist - using its own ideology in the name of Islam - truly representing Islam in general? Moreover in Indonesia?

Christian religions are minority (in fact it is only less than 5% and dominated by Catholic) in Indonesia. Although Indonesia claim 95% of its population is Moslem, but 99.9% ou of this “choose” Islam as their religion for “the shake of convenience.” If you read Indonesian history, you will not surprise why people easily choose Islam (and not the devout one).

Inter-religious dialogue between Islam and Christian has been very much intense here in Indonesia, although we still being “discriminate” in some sort such as the diffilculties in obtaining licence to build churches (from any denomination).

I am afraid to say that we should not fall into finger pointing as the same case can be a bumerang toward Catholics (remember “the Spanish Inquisition?”)

But back to the subject; let us see closely on how Quran is actually codified. And - yes, it intrigue me why the Church stop short - if not silence - in calling Mohammad a prophet or about the Quran itself.
 
Ambrosius… you are just trying to see everything in the light of Jesus. I couldnt say anymore than to agree with you. But please bear in mind, untill when the discrimanation of minority in indonesia going to be over? When the blast would stop? When are they stop killing the kafirs? When does government give licence to churches to easily to be built? When do chinese and christians discrimanation in any aspects stopped? When the moderate muslims have a dialogue with extremist muslims for the sake of peace in Indonesia? When are the lying issue, sugar coated about Islam be revealed? When and when and when? Ask any Christian who live in there, do they happy the way Muslims treated them as dhimmi???
 
Ambros tell me how the bali bombers were not represent the true of Islam? Why did the suicide bombers in palestine or iraq considered as martyrs? They surely did it in the name of religion. There got to be something with its teaching. Anyway we are discussing about Muhammad the last prophet. So lets continue to discuss about it.
 
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MaggieOH:
Yes, I am being quite harsh in my comments, but I have come to this particular realisation after studying all that is going on in the world that is preached in the name of Mohammed
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Peace MaggieOH,

I am a Muslim female and because I feel that the information you recieved about Islam through the media is wrong, I am responding to your post.

MaggieOH, how can you know about a religion by studying the people that claim to practice that religion? Especially, when the majority of the Muslims around the world have said that those people are extremists…and do not represent Islam?
There is absolutely no reason to believe that Mohammed was ever a prophet of God. He was a camel driver who was influenced by the Nestorians, the Jews and another local pagan religion. His view of the world was that one either had to convert to his system or die.
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Where did you get this information?
Yet, by killing themselves they are damning their souls to hell. These bombers are murderers, and murderers do not end up in heaven because they are amongst the wicked.
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O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful! (The Holy Quran 4:29)

"… if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Holy Quran 5:32)
What is required to enter into heaven is purity of heart and soul.
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"Verily, Man is in loss.

Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy" (The Holy Quran 103:2-3)
My views are my own and they are not representative of my faith
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MaggieOh, they do not represent my faith either.
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MaggieOH:
Everything he preached goes against Holy Writ. One only has to read the Old Testament book of prophets to see how way off base is the Koran.
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by holy writ, i assume you’re referring to the bible. well let’s see…
  1. in the OT, the most important of the commandments is explicitly laid out, “thou shalt not worship any other god than Me.” prophet muhammad preached the belief and worship of one god, Allah, alone and warned people against associating anything in worship with Him. there are many Quranic verses and prophetic hadeeths in this regard.
  2. the OT forbids murder and assigns a severe punishment for intentionally killing another human being without right. prophet muhammad forbade murder and legislated a severe punishment for intentionlly killing another human being without right. and there are many prophetic hadeeths in this regard.
  3. the bible in general calls for believers to honour their parents and treat them with charitable conduct and respect. prophet muhammad called for the believers to honour and obey their parents in good, to treat them with charitable conduct even if they were polytheists. and there are Quranic verses and prophetic hadeeths in this regard as well.
  4. the OT speaks of the ills and evils of fornication and unlawful sexual conduct and prescribes severe punishments for those who partake in such acts. prophet muhammad forbade fornication and unlawful sexual conduct and legislated severe punishments for those who partake in such acts.
…

the mere mention of these 4 points is enough to render your statment to be false and a gross exaggeration of the facts. there are many more things that can be mentioned that are inline with the teachings and laws brought by previous prophets. the only significant contention you have with prophet muhammad’s teaching was that he taught that jesus was just a man, like the rest of us, albeit a chosen prophet and messenger from Allah.
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MaggieOH:
Yes, I am being quite harsh in my comments, but I have come to this particular realisation after studying all that is going on in the world that is preached in the name of Mohammed.
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classic case of judging a religion by the actions of those who claim to follow it without verifying from the religions own texts and teachings to see if what they do is inline with what they’re supposed to be doing. and by verification, i don’t mean reliance upon skewed orientalist or christian missionary “representations” of islamic beliefs.
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MaggieOH:
There is absolutely no reason to believe that Mohammed was ever a prophet of God. He was a camel driver who was influenced by the Nestorians, the Jews and another local pagan religion. His view of the world was that one either had to convert to his system or die.
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this is a perfect example of the effects of the skewed orientalist and christian missionary “representations” of islamic beliefs mentioned above.
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MaggieOH:
When one compares this to the teachings of Jesus Christ there is a stark difference in the preaching and the way in which Christianity was spread throughout the world.
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and i suppose in your mind your religion’s less than sparkling history of conquests and inquisitions and the forced conversions that occurred during those times were all just twistings of the truth, more anti-christian propaganda?

the vast majority of today’s muslims are ignorant of their faith and their religion’s true teachings, and just like every other world religion, islam has sects and adherents who do not follow its tenets, misinterpreting and misusing its texts. and whether you realise it or not, christianity is no exception.
 
Faith101 and Gonzales, I believe what we have seen and heard of your bretheren done killing people in the name of religion. You cant blame the media is wrong. Media is just passing through the information. If you think thats wrong why no one try to have dialogue with those extrimist muslims in palestine. You keep silent about it because you think this is right to do in order to fight the jews.
 
Cyber Knight:
Faith101 and Gonzales, I believe what we have seen and heard of your bretheren done killing people in the name of religion. You cant blame the media is wrong. Media is just passing through the information. If you think thats wrong why no one try to have dialogue with those extrimist muslims in palestine. You keep silent about it because you think this is right to do in order to fight the jews.
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There is a huge difference between those committing suicide and killing innocent people…and those defending themselves, their land, their families.

All other people who have committed atrocities in the name of Islam have been denouced…all around the world…I believe a non-muslim poster posted many links supporting that.

Now whether or not you want to listen…thats another issue.
 
The Bali Bombers represent Islam as much or as little as the IRA represents Catholicism. I say the IRA doesn’t represent my religion, and so it is only fair to say the same thing about the Bali Bombers and Islam. What do we say at mass every week before taking Communion? If you’ve forgotten, I’ll remind you: we ask God to “judge us not by our sins, but by the faith of our church.” How about we apply that to others beside ourselves, in particular, the Muslims? Cut out the useless and infammatory polemics; as you are actually doing the Muslims a favour in writing in such a way. Read back over the thread; who has been a better witness to their faith? If someone were to judge the posters in this thread by their fruit, who would come out on top? If you think that the Catholics do, then you are kidding yourself.

Now to move on to the issues. Yes it is not really the best idea to only read books written by Catholics when learning about Islam. There have been many Catholics who have converted to Protestantism, and as much as I can tell, their writings are littered with half-truths and untruths about the Catholic Church. I would expect no less from ex-Muslim converts to the CC.

Yet Islam has made many claims against the Catholic Church and refuted Her doctrines. In this case, it is entirely appropriate to read Catholic responses to these arguments. For example, I recently read a response by Thomas Aquinas to various Muslim claims; in particular the claim that Christianity is polytheistic.

Another thing I would like to add is that a Catholic commentary on Islam isn’t necessarily untruth or half-truth. However, if we read a claim by a Catholic against Islam, then we should be prepared to do a bit of research and read the refutation by the Muslims. We should always open ourselves to the possibility that these very fallible authors might have misrepresented Islam in some way.

And so I suggest that reading these refutations of Islam entirely misses the point and is probably a useless exercise. You can do it if you wish, but a more sensible thing to do would be to learn the Truth of our Church. A more sensible thing to do would be to read the Muslim’s attacks on our Church and then research the Catholic refutation. Defend our Church - which is the Truth - instead of attacking another faith.

Now what would be a useful exercise would be to learn about Islam. And so I suggest to the OP that a more appropriate question would have been something like, “Why is Mohammed the last prophet? Why him, and what is God(/Allah)'s purpose in making him the last prophet?”
 
Cyber Knight and Cute 2094, the fact that the Moslems claim Mohammad is the last prophet is a theological issue. It is better for us to see again the teaching of the Church. This is the 64 dollar question: Can somebody explain to me why the Church is silent on Mohammad and the Quran (read again the Nostra Aetate), and yet, on one side embracing the righteousness within Islam?

After we have the explanation from the Church, then we can continue this debate within the framework of the Church. There is no point in arguing about Mohammad as the last prophet if our frame of mind has already prejudice against it. We should see this issue with a clear mind, therefore, we are not fall into a trap like the Fundamentalist pre-set mind on Catholicim.
 
If theres no point discussing whether Muhammad the last prophet or no, then why do you here?? On this thread especially? People are free to discuss anything including theological matter, guess thats why we are here. Stop being such a hypocrite. Im tired being Catholic that should act correct politically. Infact, I am questioning the vaticans teaching at moment. So its just a matter of time, that I might say sayonara with catholicism. 🙂
 
Cyber Knight, I think you miss my point. I am saying that it is more appropriate to discuss Mohammad without a prejudice already set in mind instead of discussing it with a certain mind set that prejudice against that. And by pointing me as a hypocrite I think it is quiet offensive and definetely for this forum. Now, I am the one asking you your motives in this discussion - do you dislike Islam? Do you exactly what Islam is all about? Do you know who actually call Mohammad the last prophet? Please calm yourself.
 
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ambrosius:
Cyber Knight, I think you miss my point. I am saying that it is more appropriate to discuss Mohammad without a prejudice already set in mind instead of discussing it with a certain mind set that prejudice against that. And by pointing me as a hypocrite I think it is quiet offensive and definetely for this forum. Now, I am the one asking you your motives in this discussion - do you dislike Islam? Do you exactly what Islam is all about? Do you know who actually call Mohammad the last prophet? Please calm yourself.
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Do I commite sin if I say I dislike Islam? I have calmed myself thanks for warning.
 
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