Muhammad was before Jesus

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Narrated Muhammad ibn Ziyad:
Ibn Mahran asked Abdullah ibn Abbas about the meaning of the the verses

"And most surely we are they who draw themselves out in ranks, And we are most surely they who praise the glory (of Allah). Qur’an 37:165-166

Ibn Abbas says, we were in the company of the messenger of Allah (s) and Ali ibn Abi Talib approached, when the messenger saw him, a smile appeared on his face and he said
“greetings to the one whome God created before his father Adam by 40,000 years”

Ibn Abbas asks, "Oh messenger of Allah, is it possible the son to be before the father? "

The messenger answered
"Yes, Allah created me and Ali before creating Adam by this length of time (40,000 years).

He created divine light and split it into two. Created me from one half and Ali from the other half before creating anything else.

Thus** the light of all the creations** is from my and Ali’s light.

Then He placed us to the left of the throne.

Then He created the angels, so we praised His glory, the angels also praised his glory.

We praised His greatness, the angels also praised His greatness.

This (action of praising God) was from myself and Ali’s teaching. It was in God’s knowledge that the angels would learn from us how to praise and glorify Him, and everything else that praises God is from our teaching.

It is also in God’s knowledge that He would not punish with the fire those who love me and Ali, and he would not allow into heaven those who hate me and Ali."

Biharul Anwar Vol.36 Chapter 8 Hadith #18
 
John 8
55 although you do not know him. But I know him, and if I were to say, ‘I do not know him,’ I should be a liar, as you yourselves are. But I do know him, and I keep his word.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to think that he would see my Day; he saw it and was glad.
57 The Jews then said, ‘You are not fifty yet, and you have seen Abraham!’
**58 Jesus replied: In all truth I tell you, before Abraham ever was, I am. **

Now are you going to tell me muhammad was before abraham as well? :rolleyes:
 
First, Jesus said:

(John 8:58):
“I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!”

(Revelation 22:13):
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

So shall I believe God’s Word or Muhammed’s word !!!

Second, is it 40000 years or 14000, this shiite source says 14000:
“حديث الخَلْقِ” الذي رُوِي بطرق مختلفة. الإمام أحمد إبن حنبل في مسنده، مير سييد علي الحمدانى في مودة القربى، إبن مغزيلي الشافعي في المناقب، و الديلامي في الفردوس إقتبسَ النبي كقائلاً “أنا وعلي مَخْلُوقين من نفس النور الإلهى 14,000 سنةَ قبل خلق آدم. مِنْ خاصرى النبي آدم وخلال سُلالتِه المقدّسةِ، النور وُرِثَ مِن قِبل عبد المطلب، ومنه هو قُسّمَ ووُرِثَ مِن قِبل عبد الله، (أبّ النبي) وأبو طالب، (أبّ علي). أنا مُنِحتُ النبوة، وعلي مُنِحَ الخلافةَ.”
​
muslimhope.com/Arabic/Shiites_Arabic.htm
 
dolphinlove said:
John 8
55 although you do not know him. But I know him, and if I were to say, ‘I do not know him,’ I should be a liar, as you yourselves are. But I do know him, and I keep his word.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to think that he would see my Day; he saw it and was glad.
57 The Jews then said, ‘You are not fifty yet, and you have seen Abraham!’
**58 Jesus replied: In all truth I tell you, before Abraham ever was, I am. **

Now are you going to tell me muhammad was before abraham as well? :rolleyes:
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No, I think they were implying that muhammed was before Jesus (ie. creation)! :eek: :mad:

And if that is what they were saying, may God have Mercy on their soul!
 
Snerticus said:
No, I think they were implying that muhammed was before Jesus! :eek: :mad:

And if that is what they were saying, may God have Mercy on their soul!
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Next they will be saying muhammad secretly is G-d! :rolleyes:
 
No, the OP is not kidding. The Shia and Sunni literature say that in heaven, the angels before all creation had the name of Muhammad on their forehead, not Allah but Muhammad. They say as well that Muhammad existed before Adam by thousands of years, and that when Allah created Adam, he took from Muhammad’s “dough” (can’t find the correct word) and put in in Adam so that Adam’s face became radiant with Muhammad’s light because Muhammad was created from Allah’s light and everything on earth and in heaven was created for Muhammad.

yes yes, all these and ever more are said about Muhammad, they wrote that one donkey named Zaid commited suicide after Muhammad’s death and that at the day his mother got pregnant, all the beasts of the earth talked and witnessed to Muhammad and the beasts themselves got pregnant only with males in Muhamad’s honour. And when the angels were asked to bow down to Adam, they were in fact bowing down to Muhammad because his light was shining through creation, and much much more of shirk and blasphemy from the religion of monotheism whre Muhamad is “but a prophet” yet their books start with “be be upon the best of creatures”.
 
:eek:

That is the second thing in the last 24 hours that sent shivers down my spine!
 
Snerticus said:
:eek:

That is the second thing in the last 24 hours that sent shivers down my spine!
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The more I delve into Islam the more I’m finding it a twisted retelling of existing theology at the time of Mohammad. And I don’t mean 40k before Adam. Let me be frank. Mohammad must have fully felt that he was culmination of Jewish prophesy through the Christian interpretation. That is what I have found in Islam. Mo had just enough intelligence to fit himself and his desires into the frame work of the Judeo-Christian and Arabian tradition. That is why it can be so convincing to people. A large collection of existing literature was transliterated, altered and some times plagerized to compile the Koran.

There is nothing in the Koran that changed the tribal ways of the Arabian nomads. It took those mores and codified them into Sharia law. Mohammad thew in what ever carnal action he needed to justify just for good measure. Legends of the desert jin were embelished and blended into Judeo-Christian texts to give familiarity and easier acceptance in the region of Arabia.

The man, Mohammad, was the first and most powerful of the false prophets. He speaks from the word of God but he speaks his own message. A message that seeks one goal, to immortalize and glorify his own name.
 
LUISV said:
The more I delve into Islam the more I’m finding it a twisted retelling of existing theology at the time of Mohammad. And I don’t mean 40k before Adam. Let me be frank. Mohammad must have fully felt that he was culmination of Jewish prophesy through the Christian interpretation. That is what I have found in Islam. Mo had just enough intelligence to fit himself and his desires into the frame work of the Judeo-Christian and Arabian tradition. That is why it can be so convincing to people. A large collection of existing literature was transliterated, altered and some times plagerized to compile the Koran.

There is nothing in the Koran that changed the tribal ways of the Arabian nomads. It took those mores and codified them into Sharia law. Mohammad thew in what ever carnal action he needed to justify just for good measure. Legends of the desert jin were embelished and blended into Judeo-Christian texts to give familiarity and easier acceptance in the region of Arabia.

The man, Mohammad, was the first and most powerful of the false prophets. He speaks from the word of God but he speaks his own message. A message that seeks one goal, to immortalize and glorify his own name.
Click to expand...
I agree in that my own limited exposure to Islam leads me to similar conclusions.

However, we still must respect Muslims even if we don’t agree with their beliefs. They probably feel our faith is a sham just like we feel theirs is.
 
Snerticus said:
I agree in that my own limited exposure to Islam leads me to similar conclusions.

However, we still must respect Muslims even if we don’t agree with their beliefs. They probably feel our faith is a sham just like we feel theirs is.
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Absolutly. But respect is a two way street. I welcome Muslims who can have an open theological disscussion. When we do, we find that we aren’t all that different in our underlying belief in God.

But that is really where it ends. We, all Christians, beleive in a very fundamental message from Jesus. Love God and love each other. The entire social fabric of humanity reduced to two mandates which we are called on to witness to the world.

The Islamic way of life by contrast commands that order be brought to the world so that every one can be muslim if not by faith then at least by action.
 
LUISV said:
Absolutly. But respect is a two way street. I welcome Muslims who can have an open theological disscussion. When we do, we find that we aren’t all that different in our underlying belief in God.

But that is really where it ends. We, all Christians, beleive in a very fundamental message from Jesus. Love God and love each other. The entire social fabric of humanity reduced to two mandates which we are called on to witness to the world.

The Islamic way of life by contrast commands that order be brought to the world so that every one can be muslim if not by faith then at least by action.
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Probably the best way to handle this is to pray for each other. Neither side can go wrong with that. 👍
 
famdigy said:
Narrated Muhammad ibn Ziyad:
Ibn Mahran asked Abdullah ibn Abbas about the meaning of the the verses

"And most surely we are they who draw themselves out in ranks, And we are most surely they who praise the glory (of Allah). Qur’an 37:165-166

Ibn Abbas says, we were in the company of the messenger of Allah (s) and Ali ibn Abi Talib approached, when the messenger saw him, a smile appeared on his face and he said
“greetings to the one whome God created before his father Adam by 40,000 years”

Ibn Abbas asks, "Oh messenger of Allah, is it possible the son to be before the father? "

The messenger answered
"Yes, Allah created me and Ali before creating Adam by this length of time (40,000 years).

He created divine light and split it into two. Created me from one half and Ali from the other half before creating anything else.

Thus** the light of all the creations** is from my and Ali’s light.

Then He placed us to the left of the throne.

Then He created the angels, so we praised His glory, the angels also praised his glory.

We praised His greatness, the angels also praised His greatness.

This (action of praising God) was from myself and Ali’s teaching. It was in God’s knowledge that the angels would learn from us how to praise and glorify Him, and everything else that praises God is from our teaching.

It is also in God’s knowledge that He would not punish with the fire those who love me and Ali, and he would not allow into heaven those who hate me and Ali."

Biharul Anwar Vol.36 Chapter 8 Hadith #18
Click to expand...
Talk about delusions of grandeur! :rolleyes:

Vickie
 
Booklover said:
Talk about delusions of grandeur! :rolleyes:

Vickie
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but he was “just” a prophet and we do not “differentiate” between prophets nevertheless “peace be upon the best of creatures” whose only name was engraved on angels’ faces. By the way, Famdigy quoted Shia literature, the Sunni don’t have “Ali” mentionned as well, only Muhammad is the Light of Allah whose name was stamped on the forehead of all angels…maybe this explains what it means that Muhammad is the “first Muslim” yet Adam, Abraham, Moses ecc were muslims as well, since they were created from Muhammad’s “light” and nothing would have been created if it weren’t for Allah’s love for Muhammad . One literature even says that Jibreel, when disappointed with Moses or Abraham or Jesus, he’d tell him scornfully “hey Moses, or Hey Abraham” but Allah ordered Jibreel to adress Muhammad with “messenger of Allah”.

Yes we hear Muslims boasting of “monotheism” and no one greater than Allah but muhammad in Islam is as equal as Allah since he was given the same attributes of Allah : Allah and his messenger know best, Allah and his messenger decree, Allah and his messenger choose, pleasing the messenger is pleasing Allah, leaving your prayer to answer Muhammad is more important than prayer, monotheistic creed is not valid without Muhammad, Allah swearing by Muhammad, annoying Muhammad is annoying Allah and what have you of shirk and blasphemy that many are not translated into English and which will make your hair stand. Can you just imagine a donkey committing suicide because Muhammad died? by the way this donkey had a conversation with Muhammad, he told him that he is the last of a noble race used only by prophets, and he’d love Muhammad to ride him since he is the last prophet…hilarious.
 
inJESUS said:
No, the OP is not kidding. The Shia and Sunni literature say that in heaven, the angels before all creation had the name of Muhammad on their forehead, not Allah but Muhammad. They say as well that Muhammad existed before Adam by thousands of years, and that when Allah created Adam, he took from Muhammad’s “dough” (can’t find the correct word) and put in in Adam so that Adam’s face became radiant with Muhammad’s light because Muhammad was created from Allah’s light and everything on earth and in heaven was created for Muhammad.

yes yes, all these and ever more are said about Muhammad, they wrote that one donkey named Zaid commited suicide after Muhammad’s death and that at the day his mother got pregnant, all the beasts of the earth talked and witnessed to Muhammad and the beasts themselves got pregnant only with males in Muhamad’s honour. And when the angels were asked to bow down to Adam, they were in fact bowing down to Muhammad because his light was shining through creation, and much much more of shirk and blasphemy from the religion of monotheism whre Muhamad is “but a prophet” yet their books start with “be be upon the best of creatures”.
Click to expand...

Is the idea that Mohammad was divinely “intended” before Jesus was ?​

It would be interesting to know if Mohammed is ever going to be regarded as a sort of Metatron figure, like Enoch (AKA Idris) - see:
 
Muhammad was before Jesus
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Originally Posted by Snerticus
No, I think they were implying that muhammed was before Jesus!
Click to expand...
dolphinlove said:
Next they will be saying muhammad secretly is G-d! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Hi

This might be in the same sense as is said about Jesus, "Before Abraham was ‘I am’ " not as a god but as a Messenger. Only Catholics took it wrongly.

I love Jesus

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

This might be in the same sense as is said about Jesus, "Before Abraham was ‘I am’ " not as a god but as a Messenger. Only Catholics took it wrongly.

I love Jesus

Thanks
Click to expand...
The first account of Jesus was recorded by Jewish Christians. It was compiled later into a book for Christians, again by Christians. Your book came several hundred years later. Muhammand already had a preconcieved notion of Judaism and Christianity. He quite possibly had interpreted what he heard with prejudice and therefore skewed the facts. Whether or not you believe our manuscript has been corrupted over time is irrelevant. Some truths still must come from the Bible.

Why are you interpreting our scripture to suit your own needs? Would you be happy if I took passages from your Quran and interpreted them for myself, taking my arguments in front of Muslims? You know that I can’t interpret the Quran properly without your faith, so why do you think you can interpret ours properly without our faith? We know anyone outside our faith isn’t going to interpret the Bible properly simply because they don’t have faith in it. Therefore they are going to interpret it in the way that they are accustomed to, with their own prejudices and not the way it was meant to. You can’t interpret our Bible without God’s Holy Spirit guiding you. If you try to, you will absolutely come to wrong conclusions. It is not meant to be read like a novel. It is meant to be read spiritually because it is about spiritual things.

I really would like an answer to the bolded questions above, if you please.
 
BTW:

In the Old Testament, God told Moses to tell the people “I AM.”

At the time Jesus lived, every Jew knew this as a fact. Then, Jesus said to them " Before Abraham was, ‘I AM’"

Knowing this, how can you say we interpreted it wrong?
 
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