Bukhari is the most trusted hadith.I don’t know who Sahih Bukhari is, but you should stick to the Koran for judging Muhammad and leave out all the hadiths that came after him.
As for 004.089, I am not sure it applies to Christians and anyway the next Sura says ‘if they withdraw from you, and fight not against you, and offer you peace, then Allah has opened no way for you against them’ . So it is saying, kill only those people who fight with you. The OT on the other hand, in some places, says kill everyone - man,woman, child, babies.
It is the trusting of all the Hadiths that has resulted in the spiritual decline of the Islamic religion and for God to have sent a new message to fulfill Islam and Christianity.Bukhari is the most trusted hadith.
There are very few Muslims who follow only the Quran. They turn to hadith for all kinds of information.
I was commenting on my post that was made to the apostate from Islam. 004.089 is about renegades, someone who turns away from Islam.
Yet it was those hadith believing Muslims who dominated the middle east. But if you are encouraging muslims not to put their trust in the sources for the life of Muhammad, how do you know what Muhammad himself did?It is the trusting of all the Hadiths that has resulted in the spiritual decline of the Islamic religion and for God to have sent a new message to fulfill Islam and Christianity.
Was not Judaism in decline when Jesus came?
“When righteousness is weak and faints…I come to this earth from age to age”
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If you are in an Islamic country and say “stick to the Koran” but leave the hadiths alone…I don’t know who Sahih Bukhari is, but you should stick to the Koran for judging Muhammad and leave out all the hadiths that came after him.
As for 004.089, I am not sure it applies to Christians and anyway the next Sura says ‘if they withdraw from you, and fight not against you, and offer you peace, then Allah has opened no way for you against them’ . So it is saying, kill only those people who fight with you. The OT on the other hand, in some places, says kill everyone - man,woman, child, babies.
This thread is about Muhammad, not about how Islamic countries or other Muslims behave.If you are in an Islamic country and say “stick to the Koran” but leave the hadiths alone…
…You are not long going to be alive - one simply needs to see how an Islamic State operates.
…Taking away the hadiths from Islam would be like taking Christians away from Christ.
I disagree, Islam as with Christianity are very spiritual religions. I think it is more related to people than, hadiths. Majority of religious people are not spiritual, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jew, etc. And that is because most people do not have that spiritual inclination. Because I found the collection of hadiths entitled, Riyadus Saliheen to be a very spiritual hadith book. It was compiled by Nawawi.It is the trusting of all the Hadiths that has resulted in the spiritual decline of the Islamic religion and for God to have sent a new message to fulfill Islam and Christianity.
Was not Judaism in decline when Jesus came?
“When righteousness is weak and faints…I come to this earth from age to age”
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It is not just through the Quran but also hadith that we know what Mohammad did and said.This thread is about Muhammad, not about how Islamic countries or other Muslims behave.
If you want to judge Muhammad or talk about what kind of person he was, it is best talk about what he wrote not what somebody else wrote after his death
It also sounds like a temporal lobe seizure.To me, the story of Muhammad’s encounter with Gabriel indicates some sort of demonic possession. I could never imagine an angel slamming a person and terrorizing him to bring divine revelation.
Exactly. One possible Muslim response, that “Gabriel” was making sure that Muhammad knew it wasn’t a dream or hallucination, doesn’t wash with me. Surely the “angel” could have done something else to achieve that end but which didn’t involve physical assault.To me, the story of Muhammad’s encounter with Gabriel indicates some sort of demonic possession. I could never imagine an angel slamming a person and terrorizing him to bring divine revelation.
Not a chance in the world that’s the case. I’ve never heard a depiction of Gabriel like that, ever.Exactly. One possible Muslim response, that “Gabriel” was making sure that Muhammad knew it wasn’t a dream or hallucination, doesn’t wash with me. Surely the “angel” could have done something else to achieve that end but which didn’t involve physical assault.
I’m not sure that this is an entirely fair or accurate comparison. I’m not a Muslim (obviously), but it strikes me that the collections of Hadith function for Islamic learning/foundations a bit like the writings of the Early Church Fathers do for us, in that they reveal the “mind” of the early Muslim community via those who had known Muhammad or his companions personally, etc.…Taking away the hadiths from Islam would be like taking Christians away from Christ.
Precisely. Nowhere in the Bible do we read of an angel attacking a prophet, such as Abraham or Daniel–let alone the Virgin Mary!Not a chance in the world that’s the case. I’ve never heard a depiction of Gabriel like that, ever.
Didn’t Jacob wrestle with an angel once? Looks like you have not read the Bible that well.Precisely. Nowhere in the Bible do we read of an angel attacking a prophet, such as Abraham or Daniel–let alone the Virgin Mary!
Please tone down the arrogance towards Christians regarding our own scriptures, thank you. You should know that it is very common to find throughout Christian history the interpretation of Genesis 32 (Jacob’s wrestling) that Jacob wrestled in fact with God Himself, in the form of a man (this is why in Christian interpretations of the passage, the encounter is taken as a prefiguring of Christ). In both translations of the Septuagint (the ancient Greek/Hellenized Jewish Bible produced in Alexandria some centuries before Christ) and subsequent Christian translations, you find “God” used in place of “an angel”. Also, even in those translations that do say “an angel”, subsequent verses reveal that it was in fact God. Verse 30 deals with Jacob’s renaming of the place where he wrestled with God, whereby the author comments “And Jacob called the name of that place, the Face of God; for, said he,I have seen God face to face, and my life was preserved.”Didn’t Jacob wrestle with an angel once? Looks like you have not read the Bible that well.
Actually I think these are rather stupid arguments for evaluating Muhammad and his religion. People who make such arguments just reveal there own pettiness.
If you have any issue with Muhammad and his teachings, you should just quote specific passages from Koran that you have a problem with, rather than talk about his wives or encounters with angels.
Very illuminating! Thanks!Please tone down the arrogance towards Christians regarding our own scriptures, thank you. You should know that it is very common to find throughout Christian history the interpretation of Genesis 32 (Jacob’s wrestling) that Jacob wrestled in fact with God Himself, in the form of a man (this is why in Christian interpretations of the passage, the encounter is taken as a prefiguring of Christ). In both translations of the Septuagint (the ancient Greek/Hellenized Jewish Bible produced in Alexandria some centuries before Christ) and subsequent Christian translations, you find “God” used in place of “an angel”. Also, even in those translations that do say “an angel”, subsequent verses reveal that it was in fact God. Verse 30 deals with Jacob’s renaming of the place where he wrestled with God, whereby the author comments “And Jacob called the name of that place, the Face of God; for, said he,I have seen God face to face, and my life was preserved.”
It’s also common to find throughout Christian history the interpretation that he wrestled with an angel and not God.Please tone down the arrogance towards Christians regarding our own scriptures, thank you. You should know that it is very common to find throughout Christian history the interpretation of Genesis 32 (Jacob’s wrestling) that Jacob wrestled in fact with God Himself, in the form of a man (this is why in Christian interpretations of the passage, the encounter is taken as a prefiguring of Christ). In both translations of the Septuagint (the ancient Greek/Hellenized Jewish Bible produced in Alexandria some centuries before Christ) and subsequent Christian translations, you find “God” used in place of “an angel”. Also, even in those translations that do say “an angel”, subsequent verses reveal that it was in fact God. Verse 30 deals with Jacob’s renaming of the place where he wrestled with God, whereby the author comments “And Jacob called the name of that place, the Face of God; for, said he,I have seen God face to face, and my life was preserved.”
I don’t think there’s any argument on what Jacob officially said though:It’s also common to find throughout Christian history the interpretation that he wrestled with an angel and not God.
İf that were not really Jibril Muhammad would not know so much about religion, deity, other religious, prophets, high morality. That is so obvious. Some companions of Him also could see Gabriel. Gabriel can transform in any shape for example in shape of a compainon. And if companions did not see revelation when it came they would not believe so hardly.I claimed as Islam states that Mohammad **first **encountered what he thought was Gabriel in a cave.
No one in Mohammads life has seen “Gabriel” - not even his companions
And no, Gabriel did not come to all prophets with revelations.
If women had “no right for legacy”, how did then Khadija become wealthy, had her own caravan business, had people working under her…???
Islam took all the rights away from women and replaced it with “submission” to their men.