Muhammad.

[hasantas]

Ba’hai member:

Please do not drag “Jesus” into a “Mohammad” thread

What is the proplem with that?

 

[Trebor135]

İf you investigate a bit you will see that İslam gave a high value to women in community. İt is long to explain.

Except for slave-girls. And apart from houris in janna.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Except for slave-girls. And apart from houris in janna.

answering-islam.org/BibleCom/gen16-3.html

So the lesson here is- Don’t use non-scholarly sites that on one page decries Islam allowing sex with slaves and on another page goes out of its way to argue that Abraham was just having sex with a slave and not his wife.

 

[dronald]

answering-islam.org/BibleCom/gen16-3.html

So the lesson here is- Don’t use non-scholarly sites that on one page decries Islam allowing sex with slaves and on another page goes out of its way to argue that Abraham was just having sex with a slave and not his wife.

Abraham… our highest moral example. Or was that Jesus?

Anyways, two wrongs don’t make a right; Muslims still Must defend that the Qur’an allows for sex slavery.

 

[openmind77]

Abraham… our highest moral example. Or was that Jesus?

Anyways, two wrongs don’t make a right; Muslims still Must defend that the Qur’an allows for sex slavery.

Can you quote the sura/verse in the Koran where specifically sex slavery is sanctioned? Thanks.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Abraham… our highest moral example. Or was that Jesus?

Anyways, two wrongs don’t make a right; Muslims still Must defend that the Qur’an allows for sex slavery.

Wait, what Abraham and Sarah did to Hagar was wrong?!?! Funny, I didn’t see anything about their actions being wrong on the page from that site. All I saw was an argument set forth to disprove Hagar being Abraham’s wife and the passive acceptance of Sarah ordering her slave to have sex with her husband, Abraham having sex with a slave, and an angel telling Hagar to submit to the demands of her owners.

Since I apparently missed where this site accused Abraham of immoral behavior would you mind citing it for me? Thanks.

 

[Trebor135]

(Edit: To be rewritten later.)

 

[GreenWhiteBlue]

I read how Muhammad came to get the first revelations and i must say the story is quite convincing. Before his first revelation, he was a merchant known as being trusthworthy, truthful, he even acquired a nickname for his trusthworthiness(al-Amin).

You have no non-Muslim source for this, you know; the only things that are known about him are the things his followers said – and they have an interest in painting a certain picture of him.

Muhammad started to spent many hours alone, speculating over the aspects of creation. He was concerned with the discrimination against women and others in Arabia,

And your source for this statement is … what, precisely?

He then escaped to Medina and became a totally different person. It seems that power corrupted him somehow.

What do you think of him?

Even his devoted followers say that when he was over 50, he married a 6 year old girl, and consumated the marriage when the little girl was only 9, and he was 53. What can one think of that?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

You have no non-Muslim source for this, you know; the only things that are known about him are the things his followers said – and they have an interest in painting a certain picture of him.

And your source for this statement is … what, precisely?

Even his devoted followers say that when he was over 50, he married a 6 year old girl, and consumated the marriage when the little girl was only 9, and he was 53. What can one think of that?

What was the accepted marriage age for girls in Imperial Rome and Medieval Europe?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Can you quote the sura/verse in the Koran where specifically sex slavery is sanctioned? Thanks.

I don’t remember the exact passages, but sex and slaves are discussed to a degree in at least Exodus and Deuteronomy. Oh… silly me, wrong book. Well thank goodness we are holding a discussion on a site filled with people who don’t just take random quotations from a Holy Book to prove their point and instead look at the passages, the context of them, and theology associated with said passages to understand them and argue their point. I say thank goodness because otherwise we’d end up using obviously biased sites (like say evilbible which pretty much does to Christianity what answering-Islam does to Islam) as legit sources.

 

[jakasaki]

What was the accepted marriage age for girls in Imperial Rome and Medieval Europe?

Were any of these people whom you speak of in Imperial Rome & Medieval Europe who married young girls be a “prophet of God”.…???

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Were any of these people whom you speak of in Imperial Rome & Medieval Europe who married young girls be a “prophet of God”.…???

Thanks for not actually answering my question (the answer for both is as early as 12 years old). But, I’ll be charitable and address your question. What was the accepted age of marriage among the Jews during the time of the prophets? I’ll wager it was closer to 9 than 16, let alone today’s accepted standard of 18.

Bonus question- What was the accepted differences in age between the older husband and the younger wife for these three time periods?

 

[Matthew_Light]

The evidence that Aisha was nine is inconsistent with other evidence about her date of birth. We only have her word on it, and she had every reason to minimize her age, much like many women today!

 

[Pythons]

This thread is about Muhammad, not about how Islamic countries or other Muslims behave.

If you want to judge Muhammad or talk about what kind of person he was, it is best talk about what he wrote not what somebody else wrote after his death

How Islamic States behave is a direct refelction on how Muhammad behaved…
…A woman was ( and still is ) essentially “a sexual punching bag for a man”.
…& the more wealthy a man is the more “punching bags” he is allowed to have.

 

[jakasaki]

Thanks for not actually answering my question (the answer for both is as early as 12 years old). But, I’ll be charitable and address your question. What was the accepted age of marriage among the Jews during the time of the prophets? I’ll wager it was closer to 9 than 16, let alone today’s accepted standard of 18.

Bonus question- What was the accepted differences in age between the older husband and the younger wife for these three time periods?

Please tell me what Biblical **prophet **married a 6 year old and consummated the marriage at the age of 9…???

 

[Matthew_Light]

How Islamic States behave is a direct refelction on how Muhammad behaved…

Let’s change that statement.

How (nominally!) Christian states behave is a direct reflection on how Jesus behaved. Right?

No, of course not!

Jesus is not responsible for the firebombing of Dresden, the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the slaughter of the civil war, slavery in the southern United States, the Salem witch trials, the Children’s Crusade, burnings at the stake, Charlemagne’s slaughter of the Saxons who refused to convert to Christ, or any of the other sins of our western culture.

…& the more wealthy a man is the more “punching bags” he is allowed to have.

Actually, Muhammad mandated a limit to the number of wives, enjoined equal treatment between them, and ended the murder of infant girls practiced at the time.

 

[Matthew_Light]

Please tell me what Biblical **prophet **married a 6 year old and consummated the marriage at the age of 9…???

She wasn’t that age.

The fact that you insist she was indicates your desire to view Muhammad as a savage and evil man.

 

[jakasaki]

She wasn’t that age.

The fact that you insist she was indicates your desire to view Muhammad as a savage and evil man.

sunnah.com/bukhari

sahih-bukhari.com/

Salam Alaykom,

We are pleased to be able to provide the English Translation of Sahih Bukhari.

Sahih Bukhari is a collection of sayings and deeds of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), also known as the Sunnah. The reports of the Prophet's (saw) sayings and deeds are called ahadeeth. **Imam Bukhari lived a couple of centuries after the Prophet's (saw) death and worked extremely hard to collect his ahadeeth. Each report in his collection was checked for compatibility with the Qur'an, and the veracity of the chain of reporters had to be painstakingly established. Bukhari's collection is recognized by the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world to be one of the most authentic collections of the Sunnah of the Prophet(pbuh).**

Bukhari (full name Abu Abdullah Muhammad bin Ismail bin Ibrahim bin al-Mughira al-Ja'fai) was born in 194 A.H. and died in 256 A.H. His collection of hadeeth is considered second to none. He spent sixteen years compiling it, and ended up with 2,602 hadeeth (9,082 with repetition). His criteria for acceptance into the collection were amongst the most stringent of all the scholars of ahadeeth.

Sahih Bukhari is divided into nine volumes, each of which has several books. Each book contains many ahadeeth. The ahadeeth are numbered consecutively per volume. The books really only serve to group ahadeeth together, but the volumes impose the numbering.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Please tell me what Biblical **prophet **married a 6 year old and consummated the marriage at the age of 9…???

Um first, answering a question with another question really isn’t actually answering a question. Perhaps you should first actually answer my questions if you wish me to answer yours. That’s how a two way discussion works. Second, do you really want to get into a discussion about immoral behavior of Biblical figures given the earlier comments concerning Abraham having sex with a slave?

 

[Pythons]

Let’s change that statement.

How (nominally!) Christian states behave is a direct reflection on how Jesus behaved. Right?

No, of course not!

Jesus is not responsible for the firebombing of Dresden, the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the slaughter of the civil war, slavery in the southern United States, the Salem witch trials, the Children’s Crusade, burnings at the stake, Charlemagne’s slaughter of the Saxons who refused to convert to Christ, or any of the other sins of our western culture.

Actually, Muhammad mandated a limit to the number of wives, enjoined equal treatment between them, and ended the murder of infant girls practiced at the time.

Christians who fail not to live up to the tenants of their religion DON’T use their religious texts as justification…
…An Islamic adherant uses his religious texts to justify bedding down a ‘child’.
…And uses the same religious text to justify things such as ‘honor killings’.

So no, I reject your affirmation by a common sense argument.