Muhammed in the songs of solomon

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jews-for-allah.org/Muhammad-and-Judaism/the-Jewish-Bible/Muhammad-in-Songs.htm

hello Guys. I have been ina conversation with a friend of mine who reverted to Islam from Judaism she showed me this link above. Its very very interesting . It showed that Muhammed name was explicitly written in the songs of solomon .

I would like to know your comments and opinions and please lets make this thread just opinions about the text abobve without any bashing .

Probably you will need a Hebrew letter chart in order to see for yourself theauthenticity of this article. So here i post a couple of sites. But ofcourse you are free to search for a chart your self .

inner.org/hebleter/default.htm
amerisoftinc.com/hebletr1.htm

Hope you all participate

Peace
 
The thing is, it is Solomon *and *a prefigurement of the love between Christ and the Church.

It’s a stretch to say it is Muhammad based on one verse in all of the OT when there are tons of places where Christ is prophecised (that definitely do not fit with Muhammed). Christ is a praised one tow, in case you forgot.

Likewise, don’t Muslims claim these Scriptures are probably corrupted? Or are they only corrupted when dealing with something that can’t be argued to point to Muhammed?
 
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Genesis315:
Likewise, don’t Muslims claim these Scriptures are probably corrupted? Or are they only corrupted when dealing with something that can’t be argued to point to Muhammed?
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muslims do believe that jewish and christian scriptures are corrupted. but this does not necessitate that they no longer contain portions of truth or that the entirety of what once was revelation was completely altered such that nothing remains of it.
 
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r.gonzales:
muslims do believe that jewish and christian scriptures are corrupted. but this does not necessitate that they no longer contain portions of truth or that the entirety of what once was revelation was completely altered such that nothing remains of it.
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Why do they believe this? (besides that the Quran or hadeeth just says so)
 
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meedo:
hello Guys. I have been ina conversation with a friend of mine who reverted to Islam from Judaism she showed me this link above. Its very very interesting . It showed that Muhammed name was explicitly written in the songs of solomon .

I would like to know your comments and opinions and please lets make this thread just opinions about the text abobve without any bashing .

Probably you will need a Hebrew letter chart in order to see for yourself theauthenticity of this article. So here i post a couple of sites. But ofcourse you are free to search for a chart your self .
Click to expand...
The name Mohammed is never “explicitly” mentioned in the Bible. The declining standards for these “Mohammed mentioned in the Bible” theories never cease to amaze me. The interpretations for verses have to be stretched so far out of their context it’s like watching Jack van Impe on TV, or playing “Seven degrees of Kevin Bacon”. oops I said bacon. But anyway if we’re gonna use the standard of whose name actually* appears* in the Bible (not having to stretch the name from words similar to the word that name was derived from!), Joseph Smith would actually have a much better claim.

Be serious, now.
 
hello

You know Muhammed is a 4 letter word in arabic

MHMD

The same is in the hebrew text i posted for you .

I am just asking for your opinion. Do u have any critical opinion other than sarcasm !!!

Can you start refuting this claim ?!!

" The declining standard seems to amaze me "

" The verse is stretched"
wgat can be stretched in a 4 letter word that translates MHMD!!! And means the praised one in Hebrew. which is same in arabic!!

Peace
 
I have heard this argument before. About Muhammeds name, the problem with the argument is that the area were the so called name is located breask up the name. since that verse in scripture is in poetic verse it just wouldn’t make sence to have half of someones name on one verse and then the next name on the other. it would be like saying this: Hello everyone my name is Ma. Rk and I like pizza.
 
First brother chb03c can u please write the verse in the manner it should be recited ? so we can see how does it come in the breask of the verse?

Also sir i would lik to ask you if you can speak hebrew or arabic ?

Because Both semetic languages actually have no problem if a word comes in breask of the verse and this is so common. Can u please sir Kindly Prove what you say so that we can really get to the bottom of it ?

Thank you 🙂
 
Was the Song Of Soloman written before Muhammed was born? Was Soloman a wise man? Yes he was… was he a prophet?

-D
 
Is praise due to Allah alone?

What does Mohammed’s name mean?

As for the Song of Songs, it is a spiritual description of the souls journey and search for God. Mahmad is God, the Praised One… And since we believe that Jesus is God, then Mahmad is also Jesus. Solomon, in his wisdom, composed this song and let it seem to be in praise of himself but was inspired by the Holy Spirit to make this a song of worship and praise to God.

In order to understand the Song of Songs correctly, you must understand Catholic Biblical exegesis which states:

**111 **But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. “Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written.”

A wonderful treatise is contained in the book by St. John of the Cross, “The Dark Night of the Soul”

The entire manuscript is contained here: .ccel.org/ccel/john_cross/dark_night.html

Now here is another prophesy which I believe is more to the point:

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

Muslims believe that the Quran was revealed to Mohammed by the Angel Gibreal, is that not true? Then this is a Biblical warning against any new revelations which contradict the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

As it is written:

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

Sincerely,

De Maria
 
De Maria:
Is praise due to Allah alone?

What does Mohammed’s name mean?

As for the Song of Songs, it is a spiritual description of the souls journey and search for God. Mahmad is God, the Praised One… And since we believe that Jesus is God, then Mahmad is also Jesus. Solomon, in his wisdom, composed this song and let it seem to be in praise of himself but was inspired by the Holy Spirit to make this a song of worship and praise to God.

In order to understand the Song of Songs correctly, you must understand Catholic Biblical exegesis which states:

**111 **But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. “Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written.”

A wonderful treatise is contained in the book by St. John of the Cross, “The Dark Night of the Soul”

The entire manuscript is contained here: .ccel.org/ccel/john_cross/dark_night.html

Now here is another prophesy which I believe is more to the point:

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

Muslims believe that the Quran was revealed to Mohammed by the Angel Gibreal, is that not true? Then this is a Biblical warning against any new revelations which contradict the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

As it is written:

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

Sincerely,

De Maria
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Excellent choices from scripture sir.

StMarkEofE
 
Salaam Brother De Maria;
Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
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Brother, can you relate to us the real context that pushed Paul to write the above?

Paul is talking about a Gospel “we preached to you” (i.e the Galatians). Do you know what that Gospel was?

If the four Gospels of the NT were not among the Gospel Paul is talking about in this verse, does not the condemnation proclaimed by Paul reach the authors of those Gospels in the first place?

Do you know why Paul felt compelled (Galatians 1:13-18), after he supposedly received the vision of Jesus in his route to Damascus, to deny any immediate contact with the previous apostles?

Obviously the letter Paul sent to the Galatians was not part of the Gospel Paul was talking about in the verse above; how come his letter to them ended up sacred scripture?
Muslims believe that the Quran was revealed to Mohammed by the Angel Gibreal, is that not true?
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This is true.
Then this is a Biblical warning against any new revelations which contradict the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
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I have never seen the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I will be glad to see it in order to judge if what was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is in contradiction with it.

Salaam.
Joseph.
 
De Maria:
Is praise due to Allah alone?

What does Mohammed’s name mean?

As for the Song of Songs, it is a spiritual description of the souls journey and search for God. Mahmad is God, the Praised One… And since we believe that Jesus is God, then Mahmad is also Jesus. Solomon, in his wisdom, composed this song and let it seem to be in praise of himself but was inspired by the Holy Spirit to make this a song of worship and praise to God.
Click to expand...
nice try 👍 . your argument here fails due to a few reasons though, but that’s expected due to your ignorance of islam and the arabic language.

firstly, regarding praise being for Allah alone, this has a particular context that it should be understood in. al-baghawee explains in his exegesis of verse 1:2:
praise is with the meaning of thanks for the blessing and is with the meaning of commendation for Him due to what He has of praiseworthy characteristics.
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source: tafseer al-baghawee.

and similarly it is stated in the exegesis, tafseer al-muyassar:
“the praise is for Allah, Lord of the worlds” is commendation for Allah due to His attributes, which are all descriptions of perfection, and due to His blessings, the apparent and the hidden, the religious and the worldly. and within it is an order to His slaves that they praise Him, for He alone is deserving of it, and He, glorified is He, rears the creation, supervises their affairs and sustains all of His creation with His blessings and His allies with faith and righteous action.
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source: tafseer al-muyassar.

as for the meaning of the word muhammad, then ibn qayyim al-jawziyyah explains it in his book, zaad al-ma’aad, where he states:
as for muhammad (praised), then it is a past participle from hamida (to praise). so he is muhammad (praised) if there were many traits that he was praised for. and due to that, it more emphatic than mahmood (praised) for mahmood is from the first stem of the triliteral (i.e., from the first stem of derivatives stemming from the root word hamida which like most arabic roots have three radicals) and muhammad is from the compounded for the intensification. so he is the one praised more than others from the humans.
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source: zaad al-ma’aad.

Allah is the One deserving of praise, which is why one of His names is al-Hameed (the praiseworthy). muhammad and mahmood, which practically mean the same thing, are not names of Allah. rarely, if ever will you find a name or attribute of Allah being in the form of a past participle. so although Allah is ma’bood (worshipped), ma’bood is not among His names and attributes. and this is the case with mahmood and muhammad, which both mean “praised”.

islamic belief is that Allah is the most knowledgeable of Himself, which is why we hold that His names and attributes are only those that He himself or His prophet has informed us of. He is only described with names and attributes of perfection, and being that just about anyone can be praised, even those who don’t deserve it, mahmood and muhammad do not carry this sense of perfection, whereas hameed does, as He is the only One truly deserving of praise for what was mentioned above.
De Maria:
Now here is another prophesy which I believe is more to the point:

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

Muslims believe that the Quran was revealed to Mohammed by the Angel Gibreal, is that not true? Then this is a Biblical warning against any new revelations which contradict the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
paul is no authority for us, nor do his words carry any weight. he was not a prophet sent by Allah, so his words cannot be considered to be prophecies by any means. this cautioning is a neat little way of preventing any further revelation from Allah from being accepted by the people. especially when you take into consideration the fact that angels are loyal and righteous servants of Allah incapable of disobeying Him. if an angel were to descend from heaven with revelation, then it most certainly would be because Allah ordered him to deliver it.

so as i said above, nice try. but it doesn’t work for us.
 
Ok, here is my take, I wrote a bit on the forum whyislam.org about the Song of songs, here is a brief summary.

There are at least 2 ways in reading this book.

One way is the literal, which means it is a song of someone who calls himself Solomon and a fiance then wife.

The second is of a condition/prophecy of the LOVE between 2 people in the future(and future/present). For the Jews, if they read it in this second way, it is the Love between God and His people Israel. For the Christians, it is the Love between Jesus, who is God, and His people, the believers. If the Muslims like to read it saying that the male lover is Muhammed(pbuh) then they need to read and examine carefully the implications.

The description of this Love is very, very PERSONAL.
So personal that it can only be described to God Himself.

This female lover is in total love with the male lover and vice versa. The male lover is a King! The female lover is a country girl!
How can these 2 fall in Love?

The male lover comes to the country for His love. In a way, He becomes a country man. She witnesses His arrival. After some time, she cannot find Him, He has gone back. They are still in Love and are still wanting to be married and consumate the marriage.

The female lover goes looking for Him, eventually finds Him. She then gets called “Shulammite” a female version of the name “Solomon” she has become like Him, the King of kings.

The King becomes a country man (or lowers His Kingly status to go to the country), to court His country girl. So that He could take her to His Kingdom and make Her into a Queen!

Now, can this be a song between God and His people? Sure, this relationship with us and God is perfectly acceptable.
Can this male lover be Jesus, sure, Jesus is God, so this relationship is perfectly awesome. (The Word, lowers His status to become a man like us, to court us. So that we would want His love so much that we would search Him until He marries us and consummates His love for us)

Can this song be about Muhammed(pbuh)? I don’t think Muslims can claim this and exalt Muhammed(pbuh)'s status as a creature and lowers God’s worthiness of LOVE by having Muslims Love for Muhammed(pbuh) be equal or greater that their LOVE for God Himself!

Personally, my love is getting stronger and stronger and I can’t wait until I reach the Lord to marry Him and our Love to be consummated!!!

Marriage supper of the Lamb!!! Come Lord Jesus! Come!!!

Amen!
 
Correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe Muhammad being a decendent of Ishmael, who was NOT the chosen son moved off to establish the Islamic Religion and the fact that the Song of Songs was written after the Babylonian Exile around 538 BC and Muhammad was born around 570 AD gives us a little insight into the fact that if he was GOD or Allah, he would have actually been mentioned in the bible a little more than what you are referencing.

Also, he was born normally by 2 mortals and never performed any miracles, as Jesus did. He never healed the sick, rose from the dead, made the blind see, made water into wine or feed thousands with just a few loaves of bread.

He was also married and didn’t begin his “teachings” until age 40, there was no prediction of his birth that I know of, maybe I am wrong. This after all is just my opinion
“It is like a mustard seed that, when it is sown in the ground, it is the smallest of all the seeds on the earth. But once it is sown, it springs up and becomes the largest of plants and puts forth large branches, so that the birds of the sky can dwell in its shade.” Mark 4: 31 - 32
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“”“Correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe Muhammad being a decendent of Ishmael, who was NOT the chosen son moved off to establish the Islamic Religion “””""

Thats because the chosen son concept that you have is in my opinion inflated . Sarah was promissed a son and she was barren . Big Deal, so was mary’s mom and so was Joshuas mom!!! Second thing is that Muslims believe thet the would be sacrifice was Ishmael and not Isac. Not because it does matter to our faith but actually because its the truth.

“”""“and the fact that the Song of Songs was written after the Babylonian Exile around 538 BC and Muhammad was born around 570 AD gives us a little insight into the fact that if he was GOD or Allah, he would have actually been mentioned in the bible a little more than what you are referencing.”"""""""""

He was mentioned more than i just refered but you are right . he isnt God or Allah and he never claimed to be God or Allah .

“”"“Also, he was born normally by 2 mortals “””"""

So was all teh prophets of God . Adam was made without any parents at all . Eve was made out of adam himself whats the problem , cant God make whatever he wishes!!!

“”""" and never performed any miracles, as Jesus did. He never healed the sick, rose from the dead, made the blind see, made water into wine or feed thousands with just a few loaves of bread. “”""""""""

Well jesus never made the Miracles that Moses did . Both of them never made the miracles that Abraham did . Muhammed made miracles but Muslims doesnt realluy stress on them cause we are warned of how many prophets befroe made miracles and ended up rejected and persecurted. Your true faith shouldnt depend on Miracles it should depend on sound faith and proper unbiased honest belief. Miracles isnt the sign of Power of the Prophet , its the sign for people to believe in whom this prophet was sent from . Saqdly history shows us that even many miracles were made. Alot of people disbelieved . But any way Muhammed yes made thousands eat froma few loaves and made thousands drink from little water available .

“”"""""“He was also married and didn’t begin his “teachings” until age 40, “””"""""""""""""

Nothing strange about That . same was moses.

“”""""""""""""“there was no prediction of his birth that I know of, maybe I am wrong. This after all is just my opinion”""""""""

There is many prophecies of Muhammed for people who can be honest with themselves . I just showed you his name and description in the bible above. and as for the marriage thing well nearly all prophets married and had children and moses pegan to teach at old age also . whats the problem?!
 
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