Muhammed or Jesus: The prophet like unto Moses

[swariffin]

Reason #16,

Islam cannot be from God, because an unmarried man deemed to be not fully a man. So, a man born to be incapable is not considered as a man, without any mercy or justification.

Reason #17,

Islam cannot be from God, because to be in complete brotherhood of mankind, the necessity to accept the same prophet(s) is a required.

 

[Eucharisted]

Oh I see how Muslims interpret the Koran now!

They take the verses either historially or spiritually.

Spiritual: Mary would the spiritual sister of Moses.
Historical: The Christians whom Mohammed met worshipped Mary, so Allah says that Mary is made a god beside God.

In other words, it’s similar to the literal and spiritual interpretation of the Bible (CCC 116-7), save in the case of the Bible the spiritual interpretation means allegoral (pointing to Jesus), moral (lead to act justly), and anagogical (pointing to what is to come).

Yet…if the Koran is interpreted historically, than how can it be eternal? For example, Mary would never be worshipped by true Christians, so the passage about Mary being worshipped as a god can’t be pointing forward to a future event; hence, it can’t be interpreted anagogically. So the Koran is stuck in the past, it seems.

 

[swariffin]

There were no mistakes. We see even today, the catholics are discussing whether they worship Mary or not and whether they should worship Mary or not. Some are bent upon worshipping her because she is the mother of god (Jesus).

You are WRONG. It is clear that the RCC does not teach the Catholic to worship Mary. It is you who still confused but still insist that.

We see a mother of god and a father of god in heavens (or every where) and another name sake father i.e. Joseph the carpentar. And we have a mother of god too, all these are unreal relations. Quran has rightly reported that the christians in those days worshipped Mary in the middle east area.

Mary the Mother of God because Mary is the biological mother of Jesus. It does not mean that God has a mother. It is just a title given to Mary. The RCC is clear that at no circumstances that the church teach that God has a mother. Check the teaching of the RCC from the correct source. Don’t check the RCC teaching from another source other than the RCC to be logical.

Your saying that Quran calls Maryam the sister of Aaron. That is a great news for you and all the christians here. They do not understand the high level language of the Quran, like the actual disciples of Jesus never understood the parables of Jesus.

Please remember that Quran does not call Mary as the sister of Moses. Why is that? Quran calls her “O, sister of Aaron…”

For that you have to understand what Aaron used to do and what were his duties in the temple and what was Mary doing in the temple before her marriage to Joseph the carpentar.

Aaron was the brother of Moses, and Aaron was the priest of the Israel during the exodus. So, Aaron and Moses were both live in the same era. Mary and Aaron were 1.500 years apart. There was no way that Mary and Aaron were brother and sister. Muhammad was mistaken Mary to Miriam, as they were both called Maryam in Arabic. Before marriage to Joseph, Mary has nothing to do with Joseph, and definitely has nothing to do with Aaron.

Because you have asked few questions, may I also ask one or two? There is a triangular relation between God (the Father of Jesus) and Jesus and Mary (the mother of Jesus). Jesus has got a mother and a Father. There is a relation established before Mary left the temple with God. Now how could she be married to any one? Please tell.

Mary being a mother of God does not mean that God marry to Mary. You are thinking and making God to be human, and you are in the stage of blasphemy. Mary was the vehicle of God in accordance with God’s will to fulfill God’s own plan as stated in Genesis 3:15. God’s word to become human, must have a human female, because a human must be born to this world by human female.

When you will undrstand those things then you will know the language of the Quran and why does not Quran call her the sister of Moses a.s. Moses and Aaron were brothers. They were the children of Imran. Imran was the son of Qahath the son of Lavi. (in service of the temple. Mary was doing same thing i.e. service of the temple. So she can be called “O, sister of Aaron…”

A female Jew cannot perform the task of being a priest in the Jewish temple. Only the male can become a priest. So, the service of Mary (if she was serving in the temple), was certainly different than the service done by Aaron or any other priest in the Jewish religion. In that case, calling a female servant in the temple to be venerated to level of Aaron was certainly impossible.

During the time of Mary, she was never been called the sister of Aaron even to show appreciation of her service. Please quote the bible that Mary stayed for her lifetime in the temple, and such appreciation to her to be called the sister of Aaron. It is just the Muslim apologist making up your story to cover the mistake in Quran.

 

[R_not]

**There were no mistakes. We see even today, the catholics are discussing whether they worship Mary or not and whether they should worship Mary or not. Some are bent upon worshipping her because she is the mother of god (Jesus).

We see a mother of god and a father of god in heavens (or every where) and another name sake father i.e. Joseph the carpentar. And we have a mother of god too, all these are unreal relations. Quran has rightly reported that the christians in those days worshipped Mary in the middle east area.

Your saying that Quran calls Maryam the sister of Aaron. That is a great news for you and all the christians here. They do not understand the high level language of the Quran, like the actual disciples of Jesus never understood the parables of Jesus.

Please remember that Quran does not call Mary as the sister of Moses. Why is that? Quran calls her “O, sister of Aaron…”

For that you have to understand what Aaron used to do and what were his duties in the temple and what was Mary doing in the temple before her marriage to Joseph the carpentar.

Because you have asked few questions, may I also ask one or two? There is a triangular relation between God (the Father of Jesus) and Jesus and Mary (the mother of Jesus). Jesus has got a mother and a Father. There is a relation established before Mary left the temple with God. Now how could she be married to any one? Please tell.

When you will undrstand those things then you will know the language of the Quran and why does not Quran call her the sister of Moses a.s. Moses and Aaron were brothers. They were the children of Imran. Imran was the son of Qahath the son of Lavi. (in service of the temple. Mary was doing same thing i.e. service of the temple. So she can be called “O, sister of Aaron…”**

No, actually it is you discussing whether or not we worship Mary and we have told you more than there are the grains of sand on this earth that we do not. But, instead you prefer not to read/listen. It is easier to do that so you can hate us, just like calling us polytheists, and such make it easier to hate no matter how many times things are explained to you.

If you finally accept what we are telling you then the capability to hate won’t be there since you will find that your clerics are the ones who are wrong. And there is the problem with islam - you cannot do such a thing such as ‘think for yourself’. Because if you do all the basis of islam will fall apart.

Your stories of the Bible are not even correct so how can we even seriously talk about them? You have not proven the Bible was corrupted - because you cannot prove such a thing. Which means that the koran is based on false premises and hence, not from the God of Israel. Which is reason #9 in my last post.

 

[sedonaman]

If you finally accept what we are telling you then the capability to hate won’t be there since you will find that your clerics are the ones who are wrong. And there is the problem with islam - you cannot do such a thing such as ‘think for yourself’. Because if you do all the basis of islam will fall apart.

Your stories of the Bible are not even correct so how can we even seriously talk about them? … the koran is based on false premises and hence, not from the God of Israel.

The story of Moses is a metaphor for the story of Jesus. As such, it is a prophecy in itself. Shortly after the birth of Moses, the pharaoh ordered all male Hebrew babies to be killed to eliminate a threat to his power. Herod did the same in his attempt to kill the infant Jesus. Both escaped that fate. This is a minor detail though. Whether Moses and Jesus both rode camels, ate, drank, slept, breathed, etc., are all superficial comparisons because these activities had nothing to do with their respective messages. The real similarity is that while Moses led his people out of physical slavery, Jesus led his people out of the slavery of personal sin. If you don’t accept that one can enslave himself by personal sin, this has no meaning to you.

Here is a good write-up of how false Islam is answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/deceptive_god.htm . But consider the really big difference between Jesus and Mohammed. Jesus led his people away from sin; Mohammed led his into sin by his personal commands and example and pretending to be a messenger of God, which is exactly what we would expect one to do who is inspired not by an angel of God but by Satan.

 

[chrisse]

Sister Amy claims that mohammet did meet allah referring to
"And Muhammad did meet Allah when he ascended on the night of Isra’ and Mi’raj. "

However the only actual vague mention of this in the qur’an itself if Surah 17:1 :-

"[1] Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless, in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things). "

quran.al-islam.com/Targama/DispTargam.asp?nType=1&nSeg=0&l=eng&nSora=17&nAya=1&t=eng

It is only in the hadiths where the claim to meeting allah or going to Jeruselem is made. A somewhat dubious source in light of the invasion, genocide, ethnic cleansing of the Holy Land that took place and the political situation where there were disputes and hindrance to access to Mecca going on.

For more on the hadiths go to :-

answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/Vol1/3d.html

Please, rather than insulting Answering Islam, show us how this is incorrect.

 

[R_not]

The story of Moses is a metaphor for the story of Jesus. As such, it is a prophecy in itself. Shortly after the birth of Moses, the pharaoh ordered all male Hebrew babies to be killed to eliminate a threat to his power. Herod did the same in his attempt to kill the infant Jesus. Both escaped that fate. This is a minor detail though. Whether Moses and Jesus both rode camels, ate, drank, slept, breathed, etc., are all superficial comparisons because these activities had nothing to do with their respective messages. The real similarity is that while Moses led his people out of physical slavery, Jesus led his people out of the slavery of personal sin. If you don’t accept that one can enslave himself by personal sin, this has no meaning to you.

Here is a good write-up of how false Islam is answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/deceptive_god.htm . But consider the really big difference between Jesus and Mohammed. Jesus led his people away from sin; Mohammed led his into sin by his personal commands and example and pretending to be a messenger of God, which is exactly what we would expect one to do who is inspired not by an angel of God but by Satan.

Thank you very much for the article. I will certainly read it.

 

[Sam_777]

The prophesy in the Quran (beginning of chapter 30) is a very famous important prophesy.

:tsktsk: Not at all, that is an ambiguous prophecy, read it in Arabic and you will understand that even Muslim Clerics from early Muhammed days couldn’t agree on the meaning of the Arabic word “غلبت”, whether it means “defeated” or “defeat”.

**
**

[30:1] Alif Lam Mim.
[30:1] اَنَا اللّٰہُ اَعلَمُ: ۔
________________________________________

You have just proven that the Quran you are using is a corrupted one!, there is no verse in Arabic matching the verse you quoted for 30:1, look here for the proper translation.

**In a war in year 618 A.D. (approx) the Persians defeated the Roman (Christians). The king of Persia (Khusro Pervez) took a beautiful young lady (Shirin) from the Roman king as ransom, married her and she was the Queen in Persia.

The pagans of Makkah celebrated the victory of the Pagans over the Christians. At that time these verses were revealed by God to Muhammad **

Not at all, that is false information, the verse revealed by Allah in year 624AD NOT in year 618AD, Muhammed is the one who said that in year 618AD, and that is a big difference.
Source#1:

سنن الترمذي:
ما كان يوم ‏ ‏بدر ‏ ‏ظهرت ‏ ‏الروم ‏ ‏على ‏ ‏فارس ‏ ‏فأعجب ذلك المؤمنين فنزلت ‏الم غلبت الروم ‏ ‏إلى قوله ‏ ‏يفرح المؤمنون بنصر الله

Source#2:

أخبرنا إسماعيل بن إبراهيم الواعظ قال: أخبرنا محمد بن أحمد بن حامد العطار قال: أخبرنا أحمد بن الحسين بن عبد الجبار قال: أخبرنا الحرث بن شريح قال: أخبرنا المعتمر بن سليمان عن أبيه، عن الأعمش، عن عطية العوفي، عن أبي سعيد الخدري قال: لما كان يوم بدر ظهرت الروم على فارس، فأعجب المؤمنون بذلك فنـزلت: الم غُلِبَتِ الرُّومُ إلى قوله:يَفْرَحُ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ بِنَصْرِ اللَّهِ قال: يفرح المؤمنون بظهور الروم على فارس

​

​

**It so happened that the Roman beat back the Persians in the year 624 A.D. and the Muslims also defeated the pagan army of Makkah at the field of Badr in year 624 A.D. **

Yes, here when it was revealed by Allah, so if it was really a prophecy, then it shouldn’t be revealed on the same day when the Romans defeated the Persians.

 

[planten]

:tsktsk: Not at all, that is an ambiguous prophecy,

Not at all, that is false information, the verse revealed by Allah in year 624AD NOT in year 618AD, Muhammed is the one who said that in year 618AD, and that is a big difference.

Sam_777, you are in Saudi Arabia. You seem to be affected by the Saudi Wahhabi propaganda in the matters of Hadith. Those Saudis are not right.

But here you have mis-informed every one about the revelation of chapter 30 of Quran.

That chapter 30 (Al-Room) was revealed in Makkah (Not Madinah). See the Quran, any Wahhabi Quran. The prophet had not migrated till 622 A.D. So this chapter was revealed before 622 A.D. And the Persians had beaten (defeated) the Romans before 622 A.D. It is all history. You can consult your Saudi Clerics on this matter. They will not misguide you.

 

[sedonaman]

Thank you very much for the article. I will certainly read it.

Let us know what you think about it.

 

[R_not]

Sam_777, you are in Saudi Arabia. You seem to be affected by the Saudi Wahhabi propaganda in the matters of Hadith. Those Saudis are not right.

But here you have mis-informed every one about the revelation of chapter 30 of Quran.

That chapter 30 (Al-Room) was revealed in Makkah (Not Madinah). See the Quran, any Wahhabi Quran. The prophet had not migrated till 622 A.D. So this chapter was revealed before 622 A.D. And the Persians had beaten (defeated) the Romans before 622 A.D. It is all history. You can consult your Saudi Clerics on this matter. They will not misguide you.

Then Sam isn’t lying since you are trying to show us the weaker, Meccan, surahs which are only shown to us and not practiced by the ones you tell us are ‘distorting islam’. Those who ‘distort’ islam are using the stronger, Medina, surahs.

And there are only 5 accepted translations and where are you getting your translations from?!

• Intentionally preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth-> 6:25 6:110
• Intentionally preventing unbelievers from Understanding Qur’an-> 17:45-76

 

[sedonaman]

And there are only 5 accepted translations and where are you getting your translations from?!

• Intentionally preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth-> 6:25 6:110
• Intentionally preventing unbelievers from Understanding Qur’an-> 17:45-76

Why not both? Both are the “perfect” word of Allah, aren’t they?

politicalislam.com/blog/refuting-counter-terrorism-dhimmitude

 

[R_not]

Why not both? Both are the “perfect” word of Allah, aren’t they?

politicalislam.com/blog/refuting-counter-terrorism-dhimmitude

Your web page no longer exists.

But, this is why the koran is not a holy book, but instead a holey book. And one of the 10 reasons why mohammed is not a prophet.

Reason #8:

Islam cannot be from God because it is based upon the Qur’an which has internal contradictions. Any revelation from God will be consistent within itself.

Reason #9:

Islam cannot be from God because the Qur’an frequently contradicts the Bible.

Read the rest of the reasons

But, the koran is indeed a book of battle tactics since the muslims who are deceiving us use it to (try to) convince us of its authenticity by citing the weaker, Meccan, surahs. Have no problem with the violence that islam perpetrates (while telling us they have a problem - we only hear them loudly speak up when the victims of the violence strike back), support if via muslim charities, and hope their children become shahid (martyrs) so they will name their family as one of the 70 saved (I guess it bypasses islamic predestination).

Basically, muslims use it to justify whatever they need to justify.

 

[sedonaman]

Your web page no longer exists.

I don’t know what the problem is with that website. If you google “Refuting Counter-Terrorism Dhimmitude” and click on the second in the list of results … politicalislam.com/blog/refuting-counter-terrorism-dhimmitude …], a link that works will come up.

 

[jakasaki]

There is an interesting verse in the koran:

Chapter #47 mohamad (surah) #35

047.035
YUSUFALI: **Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost: for Allah is with you, and will never put you in loss for your (good) deeds. **

PICKTHAL: **So do not falter and cry out for peace when ye (will be) the uppermost, and Allah is with you, and He will not grudge (the reward of) your actions. **

SHAKIR: **And be not slack so as to cry for peace and you have the upper hand, and Allah is with you, and He will not bring your deeds to naught. **

Do not fail and cry for “peace” -
Isn’t that telling muslims do not ask/cry for peace and allah will be with you and allah will not hold any grudges for you actions.

If I am reading the message wrong, perhaps our muslim members can correct my translation.

Thank you and May God Bless Us All, Everyone!
Regards,
Pam
New York

 

[R_not]

I don’t know what the problem is with that website. If you google “Refuting Counter-Terrorism Dhimmitude” and click on the second in the list of results … politicalislam.com/blog/refuting-counter-terrorism-dhimmitude …], a link that works will come up.

Thanks - I got it now. It seems to have an ‘actforamerica’ website address - that is an organization that I belong to and have actually read that article before.

It is a good article and why our own leaders are missing the mark on islam. islam is islam and muslims are muslims. I don’t believe in those labels of ‘peaceful’ and ‘radical’ anymore. I do believe that there are some muslims who would rather not fight, but will use deception and other more ‘peaceful’ ways to push islam onto us. And they are to use any means that they want to use - our laws against us, demands, wailing and whining (they do that quite well when the violent ones are attacked by their victims!), riots/protests, etc.

The end of the game is… sharia law is to be established and that means subjugation, if we don’t want to be converted or are not dead. And with subjugation we have seen that those people’s lives are nothing but trash in a muslim’s eyes so they end out converting, if they live through it all. Or they accept the endless humiliation and brutality that sharia laws bring to them and their children.

 

[R_not]

Let us know what you think about it.

I liked it.

I used to say that to be a muslim, to want to revert (back to the state of sin) to islam, one would have to take the top of one’s head off, take a mixer and just mix the heck out of one’s brains, and then revert.

Nothing in Jesus’ life even resembles mohammed’s message. Even the time that mohammed spent in mecca was not that peaceful - the elders asked mohammed’s uncle to put a stop to mohammed’s poor behavior of ridiculing, taunting, etc of them.

Ishaq:119
Tabari VI:93
Tabari VI:95
Tabari VI:96

then we have their assertions that allah deceived its people. Well, why would a god deceive its people? (I am sorry - but I do not believe allah is a god, so I refer to it as an ‘it’). What would be the point of doing that? And it is one of the points that prove that allah was not a god, nor was mohammed a prophet - Was mohammed a prophet?

Let alone that no muslim on these threads have ever been able to prove that the Bible was corrupted. They just go on the assertions of an illiterate pagan.

And the way the muslims ‘fix’ the problem of those who reject islam is to either kill them or subjugate them. They look at Jesus as being weak because He didn’t tell His followers to do the same thing - kill those who disagree with them!

One thing about islam though is the ‘do good deeds’ part. islam has predestination and no one has said how many, or what kind of ‘good deeds’ should a muslim do in order to get to their big, sex orgy in heaven. Or if ‘good works’ usurps predestination. Now, we have whole communities of muslims celebrating when their children get blown up, or die, when killing infidels because they are in the mindset that their shahid will name them as one of the saved. So, that bypasses predestination? I guess it does in their minds.

The more I read on islam the more inane it sounds. There is nothing to uplift the soul and for one to reach higher levels. Instead it only focuses on what is going on in each other’s underwear - on earth and in heaven, and who can they kill, convert or subjugate.

muslim hypocrits

 

[R_not]

I also liked this from the article:

If Christianity is true, then the following statements are also true:

(1) People can only come to God through Jesus Christ.
(2) Satan is a real spirit being who wants to keep people from God

And the article goes into this more and develops its thesis of which I have to agree.

Now, think about this - IF there was an angel - what angel would come to bring the kind of message that was given to mohammed? The angel Lucifer. He is known as the ‘Prince of Lies’ of which islam is in full support of its followers to do. He would have no problem saying he was someone else. He has indeed kept people from knowing God if they are followers of islam. And would Satan show himself as some ugly, scary creature from the depths of hell? No! He would probably be beautiful, a smooth talker, and very charismatic… with something rancid lurking in his message.

 

[sedonaman]

Thanks - I got it now. It seems to have an ‘actforamerica’ website address - that is an organization that I belong to and have actually read that article before.

I have been donating to the Thomas More Law Center for a few years and visited their website the other day. They had a video featuring a speech by Brigitte Gabriel thomasmore.org/default-sb_thomasmore.html?730936335 (page down).

 

[sedonaman]

Now, think about this - IF there was an angel - what angel would come to bring the kind of message that was given to mohammed? The angel Lucifer. He is known as the ‘Prince of Lies’ …

I understand that the name “Lucifer” also means, ironically, “Angel of Light”, as he was known before the Fall.