Muhammed predicted the end of Islam.

[planten]

It does not mean there is no proof. You just simply dismiss any information passed to you. You just does not care the history and the development of faith. You just base your attention on a book with uncertain origin. But you have an admirable faith as if that book come from God, just because someone else said so even without any proof whatsoever.

Ishmael the beloved first born son of Abraham was in Arabia. The Arabs are descendants of Ishmael. The Jews and christians are descendants of Juda son of Jacob. Abraham was not any jew or christian. So it proves that Arabs have better mor ancient history than the Jews. The christians are not in any count at all.

Come on. Let me put this way. Trinity has been discussed by all people Christians and not. The Bible history has been subjected into rigorous scientific study and discussion by Christians and not. Now, will Islam open its Quran to be subjected to rigorous study by Muslims or non Muslim?? If you believe Islam is the religion of God, why not open it for the non muslim to have scientific study over it?? Huh… even calling Muhammad into short hand writing, is already an offense to some Muslims (But i agree not to). Yesterday, the Indonesian Government asked Google and You Tube to block all access from Indonesia, to the World Press blog, saying something about Muhammad.

Come on. Look at it in any way. Islam spread very fast while christians remained underground for about 300 years. Islam is every where and the quran is avialable in nearly all languages of the world. Any one can read along with the original Quran. The Quran is a completely revealed book. The bible is a man made book.

The church does not have any original bible.

“And Muhammad is God’s messenger???” Who said that? It was the Quran, and where Quran came from? From Muhammad. The same kind of answer I always get. In Jesus was correct, and now I really understand what he meant.

Allah said that i.e. the Lord of the worlds said that. The Quran came from Allah to Muhammad through the Holy spirit. If you can believe in a walking talking eating God then why you cannot believe in a prophet of God when there have been many other prophets in the world?

 

[planten]

How you know what will occur on the last day is quite puzzling. Do you know something that only God knows? Be mindful of pride.

Don’t know who is addressed here. But advice applies to both parties.

Here is another good thing to ponder. The Word of the Lord tells us the following:

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

That is a perfectly good and true statement. No doubt.

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’ (Matthew 7:21-23)

Again very good and true statements. There is no doubt about any such things.

Muhammad certainly did mighty things in the name of God, and often called upon the name of the Lord, but did He do the will of the Father in heaven?

What else he was doing for the 23 years, struggling to support the truth (Monotheism), even fighting for the cause of truth. He did not have any personal axe to grind. He was getting messages from Allah and he was doing the will of Allah all the time.

Only God knows, but given the world of difference between the messages of Christianity and Islam, we can at least say that what constitutes that work is vastly altered by Islam from what it was earlier in Judaism and Christianity, in direct contradiction of the promise that is given in 1 Peter 1:25 and Isaiah 40:8 that the word of God will last forever.

Not true. The Judaism was already spoile dby the time Jesus came. Any one can read about the Jews at the time of Jesus in the bible NT (4 gospels). The spiritual state of Jews was at the lowest level.

The christians also could not keep the message of Jesus intact. Jesus was for the Jews reformation. He tried his best. But later the followers of Jesus forgot the real message of Jesus and made Jesus into a god. Thus believing in three gods and One god at the same time. There were so many other disbeliefs.

Soit is not Islam which spoiled the show. The religious show was already spoiled by the time Muhammad came on the scene. That is why you find the difference in the religious teachings of the Christians and Muslims. There is no other reason. We Muslims find you at fault about all these things. More in next post…

 

[PerryJ]

What else he was doing for the 23 years, struggling to support the truth (Monotheism), even fighting for the cause of truth. He did not have any personal axe to grind. He was getting messages from Allah and he was doing the will of Allah all the time.

Not true. The Judaism was already spoile dby the time Jesus came. Any one can read about the Jews at the time of Jesus in the bible NT (4 gospels). The spiritual state of Jews was at the lowest level.

COLOR]

Can you define for me the exact differences between the Jewish religion and yours?

 

[planten]

Continued…

By the way, 1 Peter is in the New Testament and Isaiah is in the Old Testament, so there is no argument that this is something that Christians have neglected from Old Testament times nor “invented” in the New, as is often alleged around here when there is no good refutation to be made!

I do not know much about any Peter. Give me Jesus, please.

This is a central problem in accepting the Qur’an: We don’t believe God to be a liar or speaking frivolously. God’s word lasts forever, God is more powerful than any of His creation, therefore the Qur’an is not acceptable for us, since we believe in what was already believed in the 8th century BC (a looooooooooong time before Muhammad), and was again stated in c.60-100 AD.

We also believe God is truthful. God is One and his message is also One. Church has brought some new message which is not right. God did not teach one thing to Moses and a difefrent thing to Jesus. Please think over.
You need not believe in Quran. You are free to do what you like. But remember that that you will bear the consequences of your beliefs and deeds. No Jesus will come to yoru help and nobody’s blood will save you.

So Muhammad cannot be correcting anything, but instead altering it.

That is not true. If Jesus was doing something good (altering) for the followers of Moses a.s. and that was legal then why not Muhammad try to do something good for the Jews and the christians?

 

[planten]

My understanding is that Muslims have to respect the Bible and can not contradict it. Have you read and studied the Bible? Your statement are wrong concernng the Bible and can be proved wrong.

Yes, we have to respect the bible and you have to respect the quran. I need not contradict the bible if no one will attack the Quran. Perhaps my statements are wrong. It is possible. I have read teh bible Nt 4 gospels. I am not interested in the rest of the bible.

Historically the New Testament as how we interpret it can be proved to be correct. Yet the Quran has errors in it. I realize this may make you feel that I am offending you however I posted several which you have not been able to explain. The Bible does not contain errors

.

We Muslims can prove the truth of Quran too because more people listened to the prophet Muhammad ( many thousands for 23 years) for a much longer time than some one did to Jesus ( 3 years and few people). There is big history with Muhammad. Muhamamd made history. Jesus did not make any history. He just went away quietly. .

Also note that the Bible was defined by the Apostles which were Catholic. For you to suppose that you know more than the Apostles is interesting.

Yes, bible was dictated by the apostles and made by them too. I do not claim that I know more than the apostles. Apostles are not here now. But the bible is here and it is in English and I can read and understand English. You are here too. You can discuss with me. You also do not know more than the apostles. So what will happen.?

It will be your word against mine. Do you see the problem?

Muhammed never died and arose

.

Muhammad did not need to die and rise. Moses also did not need it. You are introducing something new into the system which is not true at all. So please forget that.

He never performed miracles.

Muhamamd performed many miracles. His miracles are even being performed today. He is a living prophet, the only living prophet of Allah. All other prophets (including Jesus) have died. Our prophet is living because the fruits of his teachings are available even today in the form of revelations and Ilhaam.

The true servants (saints, Aulia Allah) of Muhammad can perform miracles (News of the unseen) even today and many have been doing it. But the followers of other religions cannot do that. Their trees and fruits have withered and dried out.

He conquered people

Yes, Muhammad conquered the hearts of the people. People fell in love with him and many gave their life for his teachings. The followers were so much loving the prophet that they did not desert him, like the disciples did to Jesus in the time of need.

He reverted back to the old testament ways of the Jewish people. What I find interesting is the Muslim faith and Jewish faith appear to have great parallels.

Muhammad did not revert back to any faith. But I am happy that you have admitted that Islam is closer to Judaism in many ways. So what does it prove? It proves that you are the odd one out. But, please no bad feelings for what I have said. I admire you for yoru insight/ analysis.

 

[cthulhubryan]

**
May I ask you a counter question? Did Jesus not predict : “The klingdom of God will be taken away from you…”? What do you say about that prediction of Jesus?**

Careful, Fundamentalist exegesis can lead to Error

Jesus did not predict this. You must read it in context. Jesus was speaking in parable about the chief priests and Pharisees.

 

[PerryJ]

Yes, we have to respect the bible and you have to respect the quran. I need not contradict the bible if no one will attack the Quran. Perhaps my statements are wrong. It is possible. I have read teh bible Nt 4 gospels. I am not interested in the rest of the bible.

Does not both Muslim holy books (Qur’an/Koran and Hadith) contain commands for Muslims to subjugate the world, militarily.

Yet the Bible clealry states that Christians will be killed by people believing they are doing the will of God. As you know Muslim’s are persecuting Christians because they follow Christ.

How do you explain that you are to respect the Bible yet Muslim’s are killing Christians. Are you not the group that Christ prophecide about.

John 16 2 - 4

2 They will put you out of the synagogues: yea, the hour cometh, that whosoever killeth you, will think that he doth a service to God. 3 And these things will they do to you; because they have not known the Father, nor me. 4 But these things I have told you, that when the hour shall come, you may remember that I told you of them

I addition the Bible, St. Paul, states that one may be fooled even by an angel that preaches untruths to fool man. Did not Muhammed rely on the preaching of an angel he thought to be Gabriel. Yet if this angel was from God why did he profess the Satanic verses.

Galatians 1:8

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a Gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be condemned to hell!”

 

[planten]

Careful, Fundamentalist exegesis can lead to Error

Jesus did not predict this. You must read it in context. Jesus was speaking in parable about the chief priests and Pharisees.

You are right. Jesus was talking to the Jews. But he was a Jew and he did not know any new system. And you (Christians) were not there then. So what he said applied to all of you because the chrstians stem from the Jews. So they inherit that curse of dis-inheritance.

I believe whatever Jesus said was all true. he had been telling the parable of a master who made a garden and put it in the care of some people. In that parable also, and in fact, everything Jesus said was for the Jews. So please tell me where can we put any blame on the christians?

 

[dolphinlove]

I believe whatever Jesus said was all true.

Wow, this is the most honest and intelligent thing you have ever said planten, congratulations, you may find the truth after all.

 

[planten]

Does not both Muslim holy books (Qur’an/Koran and Hadith) contain commands for Muslims to subjugate the world, militarily.

That is not true. There is no compulsion in any religion. Let every one believe in Muhammad or not believe. There is no harm. Let people remain christians. As long as a person is peaceful, there is not to be any harm to him.

Yet the Bible clealry states that Christians will be killed by people believing they are doing the will of God. As you know Muslim’s are persecuting Christians because they follow Christ.

Bible is right. There is no doubt what Jesus said was right. We hope nobody killed them for their belief in Jesus. Muslims are not persecutng christians now. The christians are persecuting the Muslims. That is all bad.

How do you explain that you are to respect the Bible yet Muslim’s are killing Christians. Are you not the group that Christ prophecide about

.

Reply was given above. We believe that the western countries are beating killing Muslims in Asia and Afrika for the last 300 years now. The christian forces dominated the world and the padres walked behind those forces preaching the bible.

John 16 2 - 4

2 They will put you out of the synagogues: yea, the hour cometh, that whosoever killeth you, will think that he doth a service to God. 3 And these things will they do to you; because they have not known the Father, nor me. 4 But these things I have told you, that when the hour shall come, you may remember that I told you of them

I hope you have never been in a synagogue unless you are a Jew. I will have to reply to your properly about your angels too.

I addition the Bible, St. Paul, states that one may be fooled even by an angel that preaches untruths to fool man. Did not Muhammed rely on the preaching of an angel he thought to be Gabriel. Yet if this angel was from God why did he profess the Satanic verses.

Paul was wrong saying angel can fool people and angel can preach untruth. Paul was not the right man at all. That is why he was a misled person, an old enemy of Jesus, a wolf in sheeps clothing. That will settle for Paul.

Muhammad had the real angel Gabriel who is mentioned in bible too. He is the messenger angel and called Holy spirit. Muhammad did not think that he was Gabriel. It was gabriel.

Now you please tell me which devil visited Joseph the carpentar and told him some funny false story about the pregnancy of Mary before marraige. Was he some devil or an angel of God?

Before reading any Satanic verses you better study the Da Vinci Code in which it is written that jesus was secretly married to Mary Magd.

Galatians 1:8

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a Gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be condemned to hell!”

I wish that Jesus had said that. But it appears that these are the words of the enemy of Jesus who fooled the christians into believing everything wrong. That wolf reversed the whole teachings of Jesus, the sacred law, the baptism, the sabath and many other things went away with the wind.

 

[Sam_777]

Thank you so much, Sam! I am very happy (and honored) that you enjoy reading my thoughts. I also value your presence and friendship here very much. May the peace and love of the Lord be with you forever.

Actually its my honor to be here with you Children of God.
:grouphug:

 

[PerryJ]

That is not true. There is no compulsion in any religion. Let every one believe in Muhammad or not believe. There is no harm. Let people remain christians. As long as a person is peaceful, there is not to be any harm to him.

Bible is right. There is no doubt what Jesus said was right. We hope nobody killed them for their belief in Jesus. Muslims are not persecutng christians now. The christians are persecuting the Muslims. That is all bad.

Attack against the Tribe of Banu-l-Musalig in 626 Muhammed and his followers committed rape and decapitated 900 prisoners. The war of apostasy by Abu Bakr’s. Umar conquered Christian Syria and Egypt. The Muslim invasion of Syria in 634 massacred thousands of Christians. In 635 and 642 Mespotami was conquerored by Muslims and Christians were slain and all monasteries were destroyed. Every one in the towns of Behnesa, Fayum, Nikiu and Abiot were put to the sword. Cilica was taken captive. We have the massacre on Cyprus. Tripoli in 643 in which all Christian woman and children were sold into slavery. Carthage was razed to the ground and most inhabitants killed. 712 it took the Muslims three days to kill all of the Hindu men of Debal. Woman and children were sold into slavery. Brahminabad between 6,000 and 16,000 Hindu men were executed. At Somnath 50,000 Hindus were killed by the Muslim Mahmud. 923 Cordova, Zaragova and Merida all adult males were executed and the woman and children sold into slavery. 1009 Akem ordered the destruction of the Holy Sepulchre and all Christian establishments in Jerusalem. In 1568 Muslims killed 30,000 captured Hindu men. 1628 Muslims killed 10,000 inhabitants of Calcutta. 4,000 were offered the option to convert or be killed. In fact Mulsims have killed more Hindus via execution than Germans killed Jews. 1326 – 1359 Sultan Orkhan took one out every five Christian boys and sold them into slavery for money. 1453 Mehmet I conquered Constantinople and for three days executed men and raped woman. 1822 almost the entire people on the Greek Island of Chios were killed. It is estimated that tens of thousand were killed. In 1860 8,750 killed in Missolongi. 1860 12,000 Christians were executed in Lebanon. In 1876 in Bulgari 14,700 were executed. The killings in Bayazid 1877, Alashgurd 1879 Sassun 1894 Constantinople 1896 Adana 1909 and Armenia 1895 – 1896 killed 200,000 lives. In 1915 Mulsim killed over 100,000 Maronite Christian by starving them. 1920 Smynra 300,000 Christians were killed or forced to move. 1989 Amensty International estimated that in Indonesia Muslims murdered 200,00 Christians in East Timorese. I could go on. Muslims have never been the poor picked on people. For many centuries they were the greatest power in the world and they used this power to destroy other civilizations.

What about President Clinton supporting Bin Laden’s Relief Agency that was funneling money into Bosnia to support the Muslim regime in Sarajevo against Christians. The support of Clinton of the Muslims in Kosovo against Christians is another case of us supporting Muslims. The response was Bin Laden attacked us. How about our support for Muslims against the Russians. Did this help us and you? Of course; however, we gave Muslims tens of millions of dollars and the response was to attack us as soon as the Russians left.

In his rights of non-Muslims in Islamic State al-Mawdudi states “Nothing in the law of Muhammad states that the blood of the disbeliever is equal to the blood of the Muslim, because faith is necessary for equality.

The world was Christian, Hindu Bhudist etc. Muslims converted people by murdering and mutliating them. I am sure you are aware that in many countries people would have their opposite hand and foot cut-off if they did nto convert. The Crusades were a response to hundred of years of Christian persecution by Muslims. As I am sure you are aware Muslim’s were the predominant power in the world for centuries. Even in the 1900s they were very powerful. The brief periods in which they did not kill Christians Hindus, Bhudist Jews etc they levied special taxes on them. The legal system in Muslims countries is almost always skewed for the Muslims and corrupt. Muslims when they were the predominant power in the world made it a point to exterminate all other religions.

All nations and religions have made errors. For Muslims to act as if they are the poor picked on people is not accurate.

 

[PerryJ]

Bible is right.
Paul was wrong saying angel can fool people and angel can preach untruth. Paul was not the right man at all. That is why he was a misled person, an old enemy of Jesus, a wolf in sheeps clothing. That will settle for Paul.

Muhammad had the real angel Gabriel who is mentioned in bible too. He is the messenger angel and called Holy spirit. Muhammad did not think that he was Gabriel. It was gabriel.

Now you please tell me which devil visited Joseph the carpentar and told him some funny false story about the pregnancy of Mary before marraige. Was he some devil or an angel of God?

Before reading any Satanic verses you better study the Da Vinci Code in which it is written that jesus was secretly married to Mary Magd.

If one refutes Paul and the Bible does one not refute Muhamed as he stated everything in the Bible is true? Are you not refuting Muhammed to make this statement?

Angels can deceive as the Devil was an Angel and can appear as he wants. In the Kuran in 32:4 and 50:38 it took six days for creation. In 41:12 and 41:9 it took 2 days. How can this be?

The Da Vinci Code means nothing as it is not based upon any facts. Does not Muhammed admit that he was tricked by the devils in the Satanic Versuses?

 

[planten]

Angels can deceive as the Devil was an Angel and can appear as he wants. In the Kuran in 32:4 and 50:38 it took six days for creation. In 41:12 and 41:9 it took 2 days. How can this be?

Angels are not devils. If bible says that then bible is not correct. The Quran tells us that devil was from the Jinn. He was not an angel. Quran also tells us that angels do not disobey any order.

The Da Vinci Code means nothing as it is not based upon any facts. Does not Muhammed admit that he was tricked by the devils in the Satanic Versuses?

When some one talks about the Satanic verses i.e. a book written by Rushdie recently then I can refer to the Da Vinci Code too.

 

[PerryJ]

Angels are not devils. If bible says that then bible is not correct. The Quran tells us that devil was from the Jinn. He was not an angel. Quran also tells us that angels do not disobey any order.

When some one talks about the Satanic verses i.e. a book written by Rushdie recently then I can refer to the Da Vinci Code too.

The Bible states that Lucifer was an angel and that he took a third of all angels with him. Again, I thought that Muhammed stated the Bible could not be wrong. Is this not a contradiction from Muhammed?

2 Corinthians 11

14 And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light.

12 Apocalypse 98

9 And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

We are misunderstanding. I do not refer to Rushdie’s Satanic Verses. I am referring to Muhammed stating that the three Goddess were to be worshipped. He later stated that this was not to be and that the Devil tricked him.

Can you explain what appears to be a contradiction in the Quran consisting of the number of days for creation? I am curios as the Quran is supposed to be the literal truth. How can it contradict?

 

[swariffin]

and tried to kill him or Christians don’t believe anymore that Jews killed him ?

I don’t get what you mean?

God is the judge of the final day. After the second coming , Jesus (p) will break all the crosses & will offer salat with Muslims.

Thus , he will show that he did not come to teach anything new but will uphold the message of Islam

Ah…yes. That is according to Muhammad. Off course.

Jesus will pray together with all the JW, according to the Jehovah Witnesses,

Jesus will pray together with all the Mormon, according to the Mormon.

Jesus will pray with me on his right hand side, according to my own religion

Jesus will pray with anyone on his right hand side, according to anyone invented a new religion.

It is easy to make any claim you want. Muhammad can made any claim he want. Is the claim objective? compare it to what the Christian said :

Jesus will come again in Glory to judge the living and the death.

There was no mentioning that Jesus will be in favor of any religion including the Christian. That is why Christian is more objective and logical. There is no self made claim to be the best among all. How Jesus will judge? Any single thing you did to the poorest of yours, you do it for me (Mat 25). There is no wording that Jesus will segregate human into Christian or not, Buddhist or not, or Islam or not. Your believe has too much self claims and yet unproven.

 

[swariffin]

who is preventing non-Muslims to do that ? Quran is available online , u can write to your local mosque or local Saudi Embassy & can get a free copy of Quran , anybody lives in Canada or US will get a free copy from our revert bro Yusuf Estet.
\QUOTE]

Will Islam let the scientist study the origin of Quran as opposed to the fact that Utsman burnt the original Quran? If such study is conducted, will Islam let those scientise announce whatever result they find without cencorship?
Muslim Woman;4448651:

what do u mean ? Muhammed (p) is respected by billion people in this earth . Some Christians try to degrade him by writing Mo. In other forum I almost started hating Christians when I saw ’ Mo ham head’. I really don’t understand it . Is it that hard to write a full name ?

Although I agree with you to write the name Muhammad in complete form rather than “Mo” or whatever, I don’t see why you considered it as an insult. You can write whatever about Jesus, and I believe that Jesus will not mind. He forgave anyone even the one who crucify him. Let alone, the one who just write a short hand name of Him. Your Muhammad is just too proud of himself.

And Jesus (p) is God ??? Who said that ? Nobody . Not Jesus (p) , not Bible - not even the men edited Bible says that Jesus (p) is God. Yes , he was the way to God as all other Prophets were to their people.

Jesus said “He is the Lord of Sabbath” (According to gospel writers)
The deciple worship Jesus after he walked on the water. There are 12 witnesses.

John said “The word of God, and is God”, and “That word has became man, and live among us”. Agreed by all Christians.

Jesus is the way and only way to God, all other Prophets (sorry excluding Muhammad as He is not a prophet, though I admit that he was a good man trying to bring good education to his people) were just the messenger of God. That is the difference between Jesus and the rest of the prophets.

If you can’t understand why God commanded you to pray to a stone building while God is not there, how can you be able to see in the scripture that Jesus is God?

 

[Kim1984]

Muslim woman,

Why in the world would you want to remain in and defend a religion that promotes beating women and allows for your daughters to married and beaten as children? Clearly, a God who created all life would consider all life to be precious and sacred and wouldn’t allow his children to be harmed.

 

[Kim1984]

Swarrifin- you might want go double check hour statement about Mohammad being a good man. He married a six year old and consummated the marriage at 9. I realize that people married younger in those days, but he was 55 and 6 years old was a stretch even for then.

 

[swariffin]

Today ISLAM is the world’s fastest growing religion - Even after Sept. 11, 2001.

islamtomorrow.com/converts/

By voluntary conversion? forced conversion? or by birth. Indonesia has 238 million where 85% of us are muslims. Our growth rate now is 1.36%. So, Indonesia contributed new muslims for about 2.751.280 muslims annually.