Muhammed's theology FAILS.

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The parts in red are Christian intervention of the verse:

“The Jews and Christians say: We are the sons of Allah and His loved ones. Say: Why then doth He chastise you for your sins? Maybe because THAT’S WHAT A FATHER DOES! Ney, you are but mortals of His creating. Isn’t every child a mortal of his father’s creating?” -Koran 5:18
 
The verse is just saying that neither Jews nor Christians hold any special position in God’s eyes.
 
MrZetterlund said:
The parts in red are Christian intervention of the verse:

“The Jews and Christians say: We are the sons of Allah and His loved ones. Say: Why then doth He chastise you for your sins? Maybe because THAT’S WHAT A FATHER DOES! Ney, you are but mortals of His creating. Isn’t every child a mortal of his father’s creating?” -Koran 5:18
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If you finish reading the rest of verse #18 - you can be sure that this is NOT the word of God but a mere man who dreamed up this prophethood and authored the koran.

The rest of the verse says that you can sin and allah will decide if he will forgive you or punish you.

The allah in the koran is not the God of the Bible.
 
jakasaki said:
If you finish reading the rest of verse #18 - you can be sure that this is NOT the word of God but a mere man who dreamed up this prophethood and authored the koran.

The rest of the verse says that you can sin and allah will decide if he will forgive you or punish you.

The allah in the koran is not the God of the Bible.
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The main thing that convinced me Islam was false was that it does not agree with previous revelation at all and 75% of it is dedicated to saying how wrong Jews or Christians are 15% is dedicated to sharia and 10% is actual teaching.

Agreed the allah of the Quran is not the God of the Bible.
 
ralphinal said:
This verse is not meant to challenge the idea of God as Abba?
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No. The verse is challening the claims of Christians and Jews that God loves them especially. That is why it counters by saying God punishes whom He wills and forgives whom He wills, i.e. being a Christian or a Jew makes no difference.
 
Kadaveri said:
No. The verse is challening the claims of Christians and Jews that God loves them especially. That is why it counters by saying God punishes whom He wills and forgives whom He wills, i.e. being a Christian or a Jew makes no difference.
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Interesting.

So, there is no issue at all with calling God “Father” or, as Jesus specifically said, “Abba” which translates roughly into “Daddy.”
 
ralphinal said:
Interesting.

So, there is no issue at all with calling God “Father” or, as Jesus specifically said, “Abba” which translates roughly into “Daddy.”
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yes , there’s no issue at all with calling God " father" in this verse , they mentioned it in the sense which means “his beloved people”

and bible almost refere to the relation between God and his servants by sons or childrens relationship , right ! , it’s kind of culture for me and it wasn’t special for jesus (pbuh)
 
MrZetterlund said:
The parts in red are Christian intervention of the verse:

“The Jews and Christians say: We are the sons of Allah and His loved ones. Say: Why then doth He chastise you for your sins? Maybe because THAT’S WHAT A FATHER DOES! Ney, you are but mortals of His creating. Isn’t every child a mortal of his father’s creating?” -Koran 5:18
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Kadaveri:
The verse is just saying that neither Jews nor Christians hold any special position in God’s eyes.
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But the verse makes wrong attribute to the Father by saying, “Say: Why then doth He chastise you for your sins?”

The Father chastises his children if they sin; unless the verse thinks that having special position in God’s eyes, God will allow them to sin.

Which is actually the verse’ postion - if one is having special position in God’s eye, God will not chastise him/her if he/she sins.
 
elwill said:
yes , there’s no issue at all with calling God " father" in this verse , they mentioned it in the sense which means “his beloved people”

and bible almost refere to the relation between God and his servants by sons or childrens relationship , right ! , it’s kind of culture for me and it wasn’t special for jesus (pbuh)
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If it wasn’t special for Jesus, why did he say to use the informal affectionate form of the word? Why did Jesus use paternal imagery to describe God?

Jesus called himself the Son of God. JESUS CALLED HIMSELF THE SON OF GOD.

Does Islam allow for all prayers to be addressed to God as Father as Jesus taught?
 
An informative piece to read is “The Kiss and the Blood” by Atila Sinke Guimaraes.
 
elwill said:
yes , there’s no issue at all with calling God " father" in this verse , they mentioned it in the sense which means “his beloved people”

and bible almost refere to the relation between God and his servants by sons or childrens relationship , right ! , it’s kind of culture for me and it wasn’t special for jesus (pbuh)
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This verse questions who calls themselves sons of God directly.

John 1:11-13 (New International Version)

“11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[a] nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.”
 
ralphinal said:
If it wasn’t special for Jesus, why did he say to use the informal affectionate form of the word? Why did Jesus use paternal imagery to describe God?
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becuae he was jew , and most of the prophets in OT use paternal imagery to describe God , it was the culture of jews in that time
Jesus called himself the Son of God. JESUS CALLED HIMSELF THE SON OF GOD
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may be he said that and may be not ,

check acts 3:26 for example to understand what i mean
scripturetext.com/acts/3-26.htm
some of translations is “son” and others are “servant” 😃

in this link you will find the meaning of this word pais which translated to son and sometimes servent
strongsnumbers.com/greek/3816.htm
Does Islam allow for all prayers to be addressed to God as Father as Jesus taught?
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yes , i see noproblem with that
 
elwill said:
becuae he was jew , and most of the prophets in OT use paternal imagery to describe God , it was the culture of jews in that time

may be he said that and may be not ,

check acts 3:26 for example to understand what i mean
scripturetext.com/acts/3-26.htm
some of translations is “son” and others are “servant” 😃

in this link you will find the meaning of this word pais which translated to son and sometimes servent
strongsnumbers.com/greek/3816.htm

yes , i see noproblem with that
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So, if one was to say that “There is no God but the Father, and Muhammed is his prophet,” there would be no trouble?
 
Of course it fails.

Islam teaches that God can get it wrong and/or changes his mind.

It also teaches that he is not all powerful because of the belief in the Satanic verses, that Satan was able to insert these into the Qu’ran.
 
Reuben_J said:
But the verse makes wrong attribute to the Father by saying, “Say: Why then doth He chastise you for your sins?”

The Father chastises his children if they sin; unless the verse thinks that having special position in God’s eyes, God will allow them to sin.

Which is actually the verse’ postion - if one is having special position in God’s eye, God will not chastise him/her if he/she sins.
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When I want to lie, kill, be a pediphile, and terrorize - I will be a Muslim for that time period. When I want to tell the truth, value human life, value children and let them be children, and stop persecution of others then I will be a Christian, or a Jew for that time period. Wow, basically Islam is a way to get around all poor behavior.

Then I won’t have sinned at all depending on when I accept one or the other.

Sin in Islam is ok with some pretty bad things. Or maybe I shouldn’t say bad since they are called ‘good deeds’ in Islam!! :eek:

And I am not pulling the things that are ok in Islam from the air, I pull it from their Sharia laws based on their Koran and sunnah.

Nowhere in their texts does it refer to their God as a father. It is fickle and deceptive, someone that promises all sorts of carnal pleasures, sort of what the Christian and Jewish Lucifer is described as being. hhmmm…
 
staffsgt7 said:
And I am not pulling the things that are ok in Islam from the air, I pull it from their Sharia laws based on their Koran and sunnah.

Nowhere in their texts does it refer to their God as a father. It is fickle and deceptive, someone that promises all sorts of carnal pleasures, sort of what the Christian and Jewish Lucifer is described as being. hhmmm…
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Islam is quite confusing. You have a Muslim poster who says he has no problem calling Allah father. As far as I know they do have very big problem there calling Allah father.

I remember a debate between Scott Hann and a Muslim cleric who chided him (in the debate) when Hann tried to explain Christian’s position on the nature of God. The cleric said, Allah is NOT a father. Humans are dispensable like dogs. The master loves his dog but if he could use the dog for a greater purpose he would use the dog and is willing to sacrifice it to achieve the purpose he set the dog to do. Like when the Russians used dogs strapped with bombs to destroy Nazi’s tanks.

Well, that’s not how we understand God – he is like a father. He loves but he also disciplines when necessary for the good of his children in the long run.
 
Reuben_J said:
Islam is quite confusing. You have a Muslim poster who says he has no problem calling Allah father. As far as I know they do have very big problem there calling Allah father.

I remember a debate between Scott Hann and a Muslim cleric who chided him (in the debate) when Hann tried to explain Christian’s position on the nature of God. The cleric said, Allah is NOT a father. Humans are dispensable like dogs. The master loves his dog but if he could use the dog for a greater purpose he would use the dog and is willing to sacrifice it to achieve the purpose he set the dog to do. Like when the Russians used dogs strapped with bombs to destroy Nazi’s tanks.

Well, that’s not how we understand God – he is like a father. He loves but he also disciplines when necessary for the good of his children in the long run.
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It is so easy to become a Muslim. Just say that shahada. But once a Muslim then it starts to get confusing, at least from what I see of all their rules and regulations.

But one thing that is easy to understand that #1. good means anything that advances Islam, #2. bad is anything that inhibits Islam.

Deception has proven to advance Islam as Mohammed himself found out and encouraged his followers to do. If it makes people happy to have them think that Islam’s Allah is referred to as a father, then so be it. Tell them whatever they want to hear.
 
ByzCath said:
Of course it fails.

Islam teaches that God can get it wrong and/or changes his mind.

It also teaches that he is not all powerful because of the belief in the Satanic verses, that Satan was able to insert these into the Qu’ran.
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That’s right, Numbers 23:19 says:

“God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.”
 
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