Multilingual Church

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marylauravicuna

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Hhas anyone ever attended one of the multilingual churches (where at least one language is neither spanish nor english)? What were the problems and strengths of the parish?
 
My Church has Mass in 3 different languages - English, Spanish, & an Asian dialect. The 3 Masses are all said at different times and not together though, so it seems at times like almost 3 different groups of parishoners than one unified church.

I guess that would be the main bad point, but I do not know where everyone would park and sit if all were combined because we are already running out of room. A good point is that I think it makes people more welcoming to others and more willing to cross cultural boundaries in friendship and working together. It also helps keep people more invoved in community issues that we may not think affect our “group” but that do effect other ethnic groups in our community.
 
We are a multi cultural parish which I love however we do have a separate Spanish mass and frankly I too feel sometimes that this gives a them and us feeling rather than the Universal Church . I also feel it is a bit insulting to the other multitude of nationalities that attend who don’t have a special mass in their language ( we have many people from India for example) .
About the only good so far is that the Spanish mass has grown and this is always a good thing.
 
In Miami we had tri-lingual masses fairly often (english, spanish, and creole).
I just got used to it after a while. (I only speak english).
 
firead said:
A good point is that I think it makes people more welcoming to others and more willing to cross cultural boundaries in friendship and working together.
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How so? Please could you give an example of how that looks long-term and how you think having a multi-cultural church will make people more willing to cross cultural boundaries? One one hand, I would think that having your own cultural groups would make people less likely to participate in cross-cultural activities and to meet each other. I would think it would strengthn within-cultural friendships. On the other hand, its possible that being supported in your own culture, might put you in a more “assertive” stance where you feel comfortable enough to work with others.
Maryann_C said:
frankly I too feel sometimes that this gives a them and us feeling rather than the Universal Church . I also feel it is a bit insulting to the other multitude of nationalities that attend who don’t have a special mass in their language ( we have many people from India for example) .
About the only good so far is that the Spanish mass has grown and this is always a good thing.
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Why do you think this has led the Spanish mass to grow?
 
anonymous_in_fl said:
In Miami we had tri-lingual masses fairly often (english, spanish, and creole).
I just got used to it after a while. (I only speak english).
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I’m actually sort of curious how it is to be a pastor of this sort of church. I speak english and a little spanish. Is it okay to just speak your own native language, i.e. english? Or is it better to speak a little of other languages sometimes to go to complete fluency?

I read somewhere that, “Pope Francis’s native language is Spanish but he also speaks Italian, Portuguese, French, German, Ukrainian and Piedmontese (a language spoken in the Piedmont, an area in northern Italy). Of course Pope Francis is also conversant in Latin- the official language of the Holy See.”
 
A couple of weeks ago, my pastor concelebrated with a Spanish priest in a bilingual Mass. Most were Hispanic, though, and the kids gave “And also with you” responses with the language turned English. You could tell they were bored when things turned English, even though many of them were apparently bilingual. Things seem more vibrant at an all-Spanish Mass.

At another parish which offers the EF, that pastor says Mass on Nov 2 with bilingual sermon with the Mass, of course, being in Latin. Goes pretty well every year.
 
ProVobis said:
A couple of weeks ago, my pastor concelebrated with a Spanish priest in a bilingual Mass. Most were Hispanic, though, and the kids gave “And also with you” responses with the language turned English. You could tell they were bored when things turned English, even though many of them were apparently bilingual. Things seem more vibrant at an all-Spanish Mass.

At another parish which offers the EF, that pastor says Mass on Nov 2 with bilingual sermon with the Mass, of course, being in Latin. Goes pretty well every year.
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Thanks! I guess that makes sense that some people would have more focus and get more out of a Spanish mass. So you think that perhaps - if some people would otherwise be disengaged and not participate in Catholicism - it is better for them to have their own mass where the mass will be more vibrant and engaging for them. But if the opposite happens, that hearing the other languages is distracting and sort of surreal to you (but you would still go to Mass to follow the rules of the Church), it would be better to switch to a Mass that you found more engaging as well or is it better to stick with the Mass (if you are more neutral - you don’t have a strong negative reaction, just a neutral reaction) for the sake of unity in the church or fairness? :confused: Since I speak a little Spanish, I’ve been able to help answer questions of those who speak solely Spanish. And I once had a Spanish speaking-priest preach a mass in English that was a little engaging for me.
 
We tend to sing in syllables and pray in cadences so it shouldn’t be all that hard to participate in a Spanish Mass, given a missalette. As for understanding, it helps to know a little Latin. The sermon you just go by the tones and gestures. So far I’ve gotten away with just knowing when to use “la paz” and “gracias.” It doesn’t take much to make them smile.
 
At our parish there are Masses in French and English as well as bilingual Masses.

I prefer the Masses in French. I understand and speak French and English perfectly but as a child I was taught all my prayers and responses in French. I can recite the Our Father in French or Latin but couldn’t in English to save my life.
 
marylauravicuna said:
How so? Please could you give an example of how that looks long-term and how you think having a multi-cultural church will make people more willing to cross cultural boundaries? One one hand, I would think that having your own cultural groups would make people less likely to participate in cross-cultural activities and to meet each other. I would think it would strengthn within-cultural friendships. On the other hand, its possible that being supported in your own culture, might put you in a more “assertive” stance where you feel comfortable enough to work with others.
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I mean the effect of having multiple languages and ethnic groups in one church, even though there are seperate Masses. We do occasionally have multi-lingual Masses, usually the evening Mass on days of obligation and multi-lingual stations of the cross during Lent, but we also have a lot of volunteer and other groups at the church that combine languages and groups, like a weekly rosary where we alternate languages as we go through the decades. Our parish also sponsors different cultural events and encourages everyone to go, and when we do service projects and volunteer work it tends to draw people from all 3 “groups” so we end up meeting and getting to know eachother some.

I do think that having everyone together and always having multilingual services might be better for unity, but I don’t know how it would work out practically, both because we have limited space right now and because all of the translations would make Mass extremely long (I guess this is one place Latin would be useful, but you’d still have to translate the readings and homliy). I think our pastor really makes an effort to remind everyone that we are one church and not seperate churches divided by language, but a lot of people do stick to their own language group, probably because of comfort and ease of communication. I attended a different parish a few weeks ago and the deacon gave the homily and made the same point - that there was not a Spanish church and an English church, but one church, and encourage people to form friendships across language and ethnic barriers and to try to participate in multilingual services even when the song or response was not in their native language (they have bilingual hymn books and missals).
 
firead said:
I think our pastor really makes an effort to remind everyone that we are one church and not seperate churches divided by language, but a lot of people do stick to their own language group, probably because of comfort and ease of communication. I attended a different parish a few weeks ago and the deacon gave the homily and made the same point - that there was not a Spanish church and an English church, but one church, and encourage people to form friendships across language and ethnic barriers and to try to participate in multilingual services even when the song or response was not in their native language (they have bilingual hymn books and missals).
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Unfortunately you don’t tread on one’s native tongue. Politicians generally lose votes when they try to make English the official language, for example. Polish immigrants went into schism all because they tried to ban Polish schools in the U.S. And who can forget the Ukraine legislators fighting on the floor all because they tried to impose Russian as the official language there.

It seems vernacular in the liturgy seemed to make sense at the time but very few actually thought they would have to learn several hundred vernaculars to form some type of unity. The Church probably has that many they’ve had to approve for worship. If simple translations were all it took, then they already had Latin-vernacular handmissals available. But it’s almost become the Tower of Babel with the “We got ours, they’ve got theirs” mindset after the all-vernacular became approved.
 
Of the 15 masses we have each weekend all are in English except one French, one Spanish, and one EF. All weekday masses are in English.
Sometimes, at one of our three churches, we’ll have an occasional French or Latin hymn on Sunday.
Almost all our funerals are in English and we’ll often sing a French or Latin hymn. Once in a great while a funeral will be bi-lingual (English/French).
 
firead said:
I do think that having everyone together and always having multilingual services might be better for unity, but I don’t know how it would work out practically, both because we have limited space right now and because all of the translations would make Mass extremely long (I guess this is one place Latin would be useful, but you’d still have to translate the readings and homliy).
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From the Baltimore Catechism:
Q. 566. Why does the Church use the Latin language instead of the national language of its children?
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A. The Church uses the Latin language instead of the national language of its children:
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(1) To avoid the danger of changing any part of its teaching in using different languages;
(2) That all its rulers may be perfectly united and understood in their communications;
(3) To show that the Church is not an institute of any particular nation, but the guide of all nations.
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ProVobis said:
From the Baltimore Catechism:

Q. 566. Why does the Church use the Latin language instead of the national language of its children?

A. The Church uses the Latin language instead of the national language of its children:

(1) To avoid the danger of changing any part of its teaching in using different languages;
(2) That all its rulers may be perfectly united and understood in their communications;
(3) To show that the Church is not an institute of any particular nation, but the guide of all nations.
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It seems like those would apply, especially #3.
The interesting thing is we have a Latin Mass on Fridays only and it is attended by people who speak other languages, including languages that Mass is not offered in around here.
 
The parish my sons’ school is associated with has Mass in English, Spanish, and Vietnamese each week. We are members of another parish in our own town, but it is interesting to see the vibrancy of the parish. The bulletins are printed in all three languages, signs on the doors are in all three and so on. I can’t speak to the feeling at the church, only at the school. I love that we have an international group of families. There are many children who’s parents are recent immigrants and who are the first generation of English speakers. My son is one of them! My husband is not an American citizen either. I think it reinforces the catholic part of the Catholic Church!
 
I wish I could say that the multilingual thing works, but it doesn’t work that well.
The parish has weekly English Masses and weekly Masses in the main Slavic language. There is also a secondary Slavic language that only has Mass one Sunday a month.
The bulletin is in English and the main Slavic language most of the time, but the information is not necessarily the same, so English only speakers who may want to attend an event may not even know about it.
When there is a retreat/reflection during Lent and Advent, a guest priest is invited who only speaks the Slavic language, so nothing for English speakers. There are many priests out there who are bilingual in both languages, so it is hard to understand why the pastor doesn’t invite someone who can speak to both English and Slavic speakers, especially since a previous pastor did exactly that.
The two groups seem to act separately most of the time. The English speakers don’t often attend the Slavic events and the Slavic speakers don’t seem to attend the English events, even though most of the Slavic speakers speak English very well.
The Slavic speakers go there because of the cultural tie, but the English speakers go there because the liturgy is more traditional than most other parishes or because they live close to the church.
There is some crossover because of a big cultural festival every year that both groups like to participate in.
Parish council used to have all groups represented, but the current pastor doesn’t see any need to really have parish council meetings, so at this point, the parish council is non-existent for all practical purposes.
 
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