Multiple wives & concubines in scripture

[Shouva]

One man one wife. This is what the church teaches and says scripture teaches. Yet, David had hundreds of wives as well as concubines. Other old testament kings did also. How does the Church reconcile these old testament facts with teaching monogamy?

My son is living in what they call a “poly-amaphorous” relationship. He and his best friend (both products of Catholic schools) share the same female “mate” and have so for over two years now. When confronting them on this she replied with the old testament situation stated above. I told them I would get more information and get back to them (John Martinoni response when you don’t have an answer). Please help (and pray for their conversion back to their faith).

 

[NotWorthy]

Does your son also refrain from unclean meat? Or unclean people? Since he’s following the Old Covenant rules, he might as well go whole hog. But Christ is part of the New Covenant.

No, Christ told the Jews that the Mosaic allowance for more than one marriage was due to the hardness of their hearts. He specifically said that marriage is with one partner. Should you divorce and marry another, then you are committing adultery. What do you think, knowing this, that Christ felt about polygamous marriages or relationships. St. Paul specifically says that marriage is one to one and no more.

Regarding the Old Testament history of polygamous marriages, I think God grew angry by this custom, but I can’t recall where.

Good Luck!

 

[Valke2]

One man one wife. This is what the church teaches and says scripture teaches. Yet, David had hundreds of wives as well as concubines. Other old testament kings did also. How does the Church reconcile these old testament facts with teaching monogamy?

My son is living in what they call a “poly-amaphorous” relationship. He and his best friend (both products of Catholic schools) share the same female “mate” and have so for over two years now. When confronting them on this she replied with the old testament situation stated above. I told them I would get more information and get back to them (John Martinoni response when you don’t have an answer). Please help (and pray for their conversion back to their faith).

I can tell you how Jews handled it. The rabbis put a 1,000 year ban on the practice. (it recently expired but since there is no longer a Jewish court to repeal the ban, it remains in place).

 

[Todd_Easton]

The Haydock Catholic Bible commentary on Deuteronomy 21:15 says:

Moses never expressly sanctions polygamy; but he tolerates it frequently, as excused by custom, the example of the Patriarchs, &c.; a toleration which Christ has revoked, as contrary to the primary design of God, and the institution of matrimony. [See Matthew 19:3-12.]

The issue of polygamy is similar to that of divorce on which Jesus said to the Jews, “For your hardness of heart Moses allowed [it] … but from the beginning it was not so.” (Matthew 19:8)

 

[Denise_Shae]

One man one wife. This is what the church teaches and says scripture teaches. Yet, David had hundreds of wives as well as concubines. Other old testament kings did also. How does the Church reconcile these old testament facts with teaching monogamy?

My son is living in what they call a “poly-amaphorous” relationship. He and his best friend (both products of Catholic schools) share the same female “mate” and have so for over two years now. When confronting them on this she replied with the old testament situation stated above. I told them I would get more information and get back to them (John Martinoni response when you don’t have an answer). Please help (and pray for their conversion back to their faith).

Hi Shouva,

Know what I’d do? Send the question right to John Martignoni. He’s not traveling right now, so I bet you’d get an answer within a few days of submitting it.
He’d be able to give you Scripture passages; Chapter and Verse (most likely from the NT), that proves what their doing is wrong.

He’s gotten back to me with serious problems.

If you send it to him, please let us know what info. he gives you?

Thanks and God Bless!

 

[Fidelis]

Two points:

You can find many persons engaged in many bad practices in the Bible. Just because some practice is mentioned in Scripture without direct condemnation, does not mean God endorses that practice. The Bible is much more subtle than that.

On the contrary, there is a distinct thread all throught the Old Testament that shows clearly that whenever polygamy is practiced by any biblical character – choose any you wish: Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, etc – bad ALWAYS comes of it, usually murder, jealousy, and power-struggle.

 

[theguidedheart]

Does your son also refrain from unclean meat? Or unclean people? Since he’s following the Old Covenant rules, he might as well go whole hog. But Christ is part of the New Covenant.

No, Christ told the Jews that the Mosaic allowance for more than one marriage was due to the hardness of their hearts. He specifically said that marriage is with one partner. Should you divorce and marry another, then you are committing adultery. What do you think, knowing this, that Christ felt about polygamous marriages or relationships. St. Paul specifically says that marriage is one to one and no more.

Regarding the Old Testament history of polygamous marriages, I think God grew angry by this custom, but I can’t recall where.

Good Luck!

Yeah, I think its important to note that God never says ‘Go forth and have multiple wives and concubines’ - this was never a commandment from God, and because people did it, even those held in such esteem as David did it out sin - it was not God’s will, and was made evident that man and wife should become ONE flesh - this is the key, and an early decree of God.

We should remember that Jesus came not to change the law, but to fulfill it, which means the law was the same then as it was in the OT and Jesus also makes it VERY clear, that marriage between one man and one woman is God’s will.

Anything outside of God’s will would seem to me to be incurring judgement on yourself.

Peace

 

[Robert_in_SD]

One man one wife. This is what the church teaches and says scripture teaches. Yet, David had hundreds of wives as well as concubines. Other old testament kings did also. How does the Church reconcile these old testament facts with teaching monogamy?

My son is living in what they call a “poly-amaphorous” relationship. He and his best friend (both products of Catholic schools) share the same female “mate” and have so for over two years now. When confronting them on this she replied with the old testament situation stated above. I told them I would get more information and get back to them (John Martinoni response when you don’t have an answer). Please help (and pray for their conversion back to their faith).

God’s plan for human relationships begins in Genesis with Adam and Eve - a couple. God did not make multiple partners for either of them. Christ confirms this in his teaching on marriage in the NT, as discussed above. Throughout the bible there are stories of men and women who stray from God’s plan and have adulterous relationships with multiple partners. That does not mean God condones the conduct. In all cases, the adulterous relationships end badly and the effects are usually felt for generations. The best example is Abraham’s decision to bed his servant Hagar. The effects of that little tryst can be seen to this day. It led to the constant strife between the modern day Jews and Arabs.

Ask your son what might happen if his “mate” were to become pregnant. Which man would be the “father” and if it was not him, how would that make him feel? Does he think that is what God wants.

Peace,
-Robert

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Ask her why God did not create two eves for one adam or two adams for one eve in genesis. Both Jesus and Paul refer back to creation as the norm.

 

[raballard]

I’m enrolled in the Denver Catholic Biblical School. Last year this very issue came up in our study of the OT. A previous poster has correctly stated that these multiple marriages always created problems for Israel eventually led to the splintering of the Davidic kingdom under Solomon. The practice it appears was a custom to form alliances with neighboring tribes by providing some measure of protection from attack by their neighbors, since if one would essentially be attacking their own people if one of these marriages had occurred. You can see this practice continued even up through the 1800’s with the intermarrying of neighboring feudal kingdoms of Europe.

The problems arose out of the introduction of the false worship systems introduced by these marriages. Solomon was especially guilty of allowing these false religions to be practiced.(refer to 1 Kings: 11).

Simply because these episodes are recorded in the bible is not an endorsement of the practice. If anything the lesson to be learned is what a devastating effect they have on both a personal level and on society.

Just my two cents.

 

[mommyof4]

And Jesus came from a one man/one woman household, too.

 

[Shouva]

Ask your son what might happen if his “mate” were to become pregnant. Which man would be the “father” and if it was not him, how would that make him feel? Does he think that is what God wants.

Peace,
-Robert

Oh, they are already planning on her becoming pregnant once she finishes Vet school (being paid for, by the way, by the two men). Both men are to be co-fathers. They say they have no problem with this and they “know of many poly-amaphorous families raising children together.”

As far as God is concerned: None of the parties involved give one thought about what God wants. They no longer have a conscience in this regard. As my daughter says about it, “Mom, he’s happy” implying that I should just drop it and leave him alone. There is little if any thought concerning sin, morality, or consequences after death for actions taken in this life.

The thought among so many people today is: if it feels good, it makes you happy, and no one is hurt by what you are doing then, it is OK to do. Although they would never rob a bank, or murder a person that is outside the womb they do not believe in personal sin. If an action is betweeen consenting adults then nothing is wrong. Telling these people that their actions offend God and are actually harmful to themselves would have no impact on them. They do not accept our Christian concept of God and of sin.

Please pray for my son and his “partners”.

 

[rpp]

Shouva,

I am so sorry for you. From what little I can see, it seems your observation that your son has no conscience is probably correct. There is no good that can come from this.

I think a reasonable question to ask your son would be why he wants to kill you? After all, that is what he is doing, is it not? He is destroying you piece by piece with his selfish, hedonistic life. Yourt daughter is wrong when she says “if he is happy…” So he is happy because he makes you sad?

If this woman gets pregant and gives birth, I would encourage you to have the child removed from the household because there is a clear and serious danger to the child. That such a move would bring the ire of the entire gay/lesbian/bisexual/polygamy crowd is predictable. However, as a grandmother you would have the support of many other groups. Difficult yes, but a young child must be protected.

By the way, while Old Testament law did allow a man to have more than one wife, it never permitted a wife to have more than one husband. Nor was the man permitted to have more than one of his wives in bed with him at the same time.

 

[rwoehmke]

The girl is being supported through Vet School by these guys. I wouldn’t be the least surprised that upon graduation she does not become pregnant, but says,“Thanks Guys, Good-by.”
By the by, as I understand it Jews from near the Rhine River were forbidden to be polygamous about 1000 years ago, while those from the middle-East and other Moslem Countries continued the practice and are agitating in Israel today to have that ban lifted. Ashkenazi jews versus the other group whose name I cannot recall. One can find this info on the internet with a search on Polygamy, Judaism, etc.

 

[batteddy]

The fiance’s argument is wrong anyway.

Polygamy was tolerated in the Old Testament because it is not against the natural law. One man can impregnate more than one woman at a time: polygamy still fullfills the natural purpose of sex and marriage. Christ established the Divine Law, intended from the beginning, of marraige being monogamous, especially for Christians. So since the time of Christ, polygamy is forbidden. But it is not against the natural law and so, like divorce, could be tolerated in the Old Testament even if not the ideal.

However, Polyandry (a woman with more than one “husband”) has always and everywhere been condemned as against even the natural law. A woman cannot normally be impregnated by more than one man at a time. Sometimes twins will have two different fathers, but that is extraordinary and rare and cannot be presumed. A man having more than one wife is natural, even if now forbidden by divine law. But a woman having more than one husband is unnatural.

 

[KarenNC]

No, Christ told the Jews that the Mosaic allowance for more than one marriage was due to the hardness of their hearts.

Could you give me a citation on that one? I know that Jesus spoke about divorce being because of the hardness of hearts, but that is not the same as polygyny.

 

[KarenNC]

I can tell you how Jews handled it. The rabbis put a 1,000 year ban on the practice. (it recently expired but since there is no longer a Jewish court to repeal the ban, it remains in place).

Very interesting–I hadn’t come across that before. What was given as the reason?

 

[rwoehmke]

I can tell you how Jews handled it. The rabbis put a 1,000 year ban on the practice. (it recently expired but since there is no longer a Jewish court to repeal the ban, it remains in place).

I was under the impression that the rule was different for sephardim and anathazi Jews. I apologize for the spelling. That observant Jewish men from the Islamic countries who immigrated to Israel with their multiple wives have been quietly allowed to keep them. Those who came from near the Rhine in Europe had been subjected to the 1000 year ban.

Additionally I understand there are groups in Israel who are agitating to bring back polygamy, but not polyandry. I do not think that polyandry was ever accepted by the early Israelites. It would fly in the face of all laws of inheritance among the semitic and arabic peoples.

The young lady certainly has a point about multiple mates, but she has the situation arse backwards. Polyandry is not biblical even in the Torah.

 

[Milliardo]

Two points:

You can find many persons engaged in many bad practices in the Bible. Just because some practice is mentioned in Scripture without direct condemnation, does not mean God endorses that practice. The Bible is much more subtle than that.

On the contrary, there is a distinct thread all throught the Old Testament that shows clearly that whenever polygamy is practiced by any biblical character – choose any you wish: Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, etc – bad ALWAYS comes of it, usually murder, jealousy, and power-struggle.

Well, if we look at it from a historical perspective, Abraham, Jacob, etc. lived before any moral law was made, or at least before the 10 Commandments were given. So one could say that they were not culpable of having many wives, hence no condemnation was made on them for having many wives. I am not sure with Solomon, since he was already under Mosaic Law, and so was culpable. However, if I am correct, he did have concubines, though as I understand it he also had many wives.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

based on Romans 13 we are to obey the law of the land, unless that law clearly is in conflict with God’s laws like homosexuality.

Since, it is two men with one lady, how exactly do the two men become one flesh? If they follow the biblical example than they are violating the anti-homosexuality passages. Otherwise, they are not truly one flesh are they?

Let’s keep this clean. But, push the envilope with them.