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vashsunglasses
Guest
Aren’t they due a proper burial? It seems shameful to me for them to be displayed or kept in storage.
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Langdell
Guest
Interesting question. I suppose that one way of looking at it is, a mummy in a museum in Europe or the USA is safer and accorded more respect than would be the case just about anywhere else.
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aicirt
Guest
A big interest in Egypt happened after Napoleon occupied the country early in the 19th century. The thought is removing the artifacts etc. might have saved them from destruction. It is the usual custom of Muslims to destroy pagan idols and those that were pagans. Although the graves and tombs had been robbed, they hadn’t been destroyed.
Once the tombs were open, the mummies probably would have turned to dust. They’re better kept where they are because they cannot be housed in their orginal resting places.
Once the tombs were open, the mummies probably would have turned to dust. They’re better kept where they are because they cannot be housed in their orginal resting places.
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vashsunglasses
Guest
I’m not saying they should be returned to their former resting places, I’m saying they should be buried anonymously in a cemetery.
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Kasey1
Guest
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rwillenborg
Guest
I totally agree.
Imagine if someone propped up your mother’s dead body in a museum!
Not cool.
Imagine if someone propped up your mother’s dead body in a museum!
Not cool.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
Worse from what I have read, mummies were originally used for quite pedestrian purposes. I have heard of them being used for fuel for train engines, ground up for paint pigment, etc.
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TLM08
Guest
How do you feel about kneeling and praying before the severed head of Oliver Plunkett, former Archbishop of Armagh?
I kid you not!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Plunkett
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aicirt
Guest
With all due respect, our Church has incorruptibles on display such as St. Bernadette plus relics of skulls etc. Every altar of a Catholic Church houses relics of a dead saint.
Although incorruptibility isn’t considered a reason for canonization, we do reopen and examine the bodies. Why?
Although incorruptibility isn’t considered a reason for canonization, we do reopen and examine the bodies. Why?
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Langdell
Guest
The thing is, it would be impossible to bury them truly anonymously. Some people will always know where they are, word will leak out, and pretty soon they’d be stolen, since they’re very valuable.
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Matrix_Refugee
Guest
I was recently watching a clip from the History Channel’s “Life After People” series, in which they pointed out that, in the event of a catastrophe that wiped out a large portion of or the entire human race, eventually the climate control machines in the museums would break down and the mummies would turn to dust. This was a tragic bit of irony, since the ancient Egyptians (or Kemetics, the people of “Kemet”, to call their country by the name they used for it – Egypt was the name the Greeks gave to the land when Alexander the Great conquered it) practiced mummification because they believed this would ensure the safety of the soul as it entered the afterlife. Part of their belief was that the soul, or part of it, would return to the physical world during the day in order to visit the body it had belonged to, and in order for that soul to be able to pass back and forth safely, the body had to be preserved. I doubt this actually happens, but maybe there’s some truth to it.
As for the morality of displaying mummies in a museum? A lot of them are wrapped in very elaborately embroidered and beaded shrouds, or they are encased in sarcophagi which are works of art in and of themselves and are worth preserving out of historic and artistic value. So I think out of respect for the dead person within the sarcophagus, the body should be left inside it, while the sarcophagus remains on display. If there is any element of truth to the Kemetic view of the afterlife, I would think burying the body without the sarcophagus would be jarring to that person’s soul. Part of the reason for the elaborate designs on the sarcophagus or the wrappings were to inscribe the person’s name so the soul could recognize its dwelling place when it came back to the physical plane for it’s “visit”.
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TLM08
Guest
I could understand having a cemetery for saints… or something like it. But kneeling and praying before this severed head just doesn’t seem right. I think it invites “other” spirits to become involved.
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LilyM
Guest
Why? If you were kneeling and praying before the tomb or grave of St Paul or St Thomas More you’d also be praying before their severed heads (tradition has it St Paul was killed by beheading). The heads just wouldn’t be visible.I could understand having a cemetery for saints… or something like it. But kneeling and praying before this severed head just doesn’t seem right. I think it invites “other” spirits to become involved.
So unless your beef is a more general one with praying to saints, then there’s no logic in distinguishing one whose severed head is visible as opposed to someone whose severed head is entombed with the rest of their body, or someone who died of other causes and was buried body intact.
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aicirt
Guest
I see you are not Catholic. You might find the following in the Bible helpful for understanding the use of relics in the Catholic Church:I could understand having a cemetery for saints… or something like it. But kneeling and praying before this severed head just doesn’t seem right. I think it invites “other” spirits to become involved.
Elisha 2 Kings 13:20-21
Matt 9: 20-22 Acts 5:14-16 Acts 19: 11-12
Through their lives, the Holy Spirit manifested Itself in these people who later became saints. If evil was defeated in life, God isn’t going to allow evil (“other” spirits) to triumph in death.
Can it be shocking? Yes, especially if you were not prepared to see the head of Oliver Plunkett. But I wouldn’t want it changed. The saints serve as an inspiration. We’re forced to ask and think about Plunkett’s life and what he sacrificed and the horror of his death.
The Incorruptibles, and I think there are about 300 saints whose bodies are intact, remind us that Jesus does triumph over death.
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vashsunglasses
Guest
No offense guys, but can we get back on topic? I think there’s a big difference between Incorruptibles (who were Saints and thus are happy to allow viewing by the devout) and Mummies (who are pagans that are displayed without their permission in a way that is expressly against their beliefs). Even if we don’t agree with their beliefs about burial and the afterlife, I think we should respect them. It has always upset me that when we take them out of their tombs and display them… we are pretty much doing the exact thing they feared the most.
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aicirt
Guest
TLMO8 isn’t Catholic. I certainly wasn’t going to let his question pass without giving him some explanation.
My original point re. the Incorruptibles is if you believe we should leave them buried, why does the Church open the caskets of those who are being considered for canonization? The state of the body doesn’t automatically indicate the condition of the soul and is not necessary for cannonization. So if it isn’t necessary, when and why did the Church open the tombs of our dead?
Back to the mummies. People have to see to believe. Some of them are 5,000 years old. I believe they now think Tut was 90 when he died. Just examining for that fact gives us an idea of how they lived and how incredible it was that he lived to that age. There’s a big push now to open a tomb said to hold the body of the oldest child of the Pharaoh during Moses’ time.
The bodies in Pompei are exhibited from the eruption in 75AD. And there are three Azetec children, mummified, sacrificed 500 years ago, which are now stored in a freezer, there’s also the Bog Man from Denmark or Holland, and the pre-historic hunter found on the slopes of the Alps. All are kept and all are viewed occassionaly either by the public or by scientists.
My original point re. the Incorruptibles is if you believe we should leave them buried, why does the Church open the caskets of those who are being considered for canonization? The state of the body doesn’t automatically indicate the condition of the soul and is not necessary for cannonization. So if it isn’t necessary, when and why did the Church open the tombs of our dead?
Back to the mummies. People have to see to believe. Some of them are 5,000 years old. I believe they now think Tut was 90 when he died. Just examining for that fact gives us an idea of how they lived and how incredible it was that he lived to that age. There’s a big push now to open a tomb said to hold the body of the oldest child of the Pharaoh during Moses’ time.
The bodies in Pompei are exhibited from the eruption in 75AD. And there are three Azetec children, mummified, sacrificed 500 years ago, which are now stored in a freezer, there’s also the Bog Man from Denmark or Holland, and the pre-historic hunter found on the slopes of the Alps. All are kept and all are viewed occassionaly either by the public or by scientists.
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aicirt
Guest
Forgot one more point: Pope John XIII is not a saint. He was embalmed and his body is, I believe, on display in the Vatican.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
I think it involves a need to verify who is buried where. **
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