Murderers and Heaven

[Alda]

First, it should be remembered that no one get’s to Heaven on their own merits alone but on the merits of Jesus Christ’s death on the Cross.

Second, in the Gospels, Jesus speaks of storing up treasure in Heaven by performing good deeds while on earth. Likewise, in Revelation (19:8), St. John speaks of the saints in heaven being clothed in their good deeds. So, compared to the virtuous person who dies in God’s friendship after a life full of good deeds, the child rapist and murderer who repents of his sins just before his death, because of his lack of good deeds, will forever be the least and poorest in Heaven.

The child rapist and murderer who does not repent of his sins will suffer eternal punishment in Hell.

Now this I understand, thankyou. See this is the problem I came up against in the last day or so when I was reflecting on this and on people’s answers. If faith without works is dead, and if we should try to fill our lives with good works, then what good is repentance on death row when mass murder is quite unequivocally a life of very bad works?

 

[Alda]

A Thomist would certainly think they have such a capacity, because Aquinas holds that nothing can quite obliterate our moral sense.​

Yes, is this similar to the fact that there is a natural law? The fact that even if one is not aware of God’s law, the Gospel and our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, still one cannot pretend to be unaware that murder is wrong. Natural law contends that everyone knows that murder is wrong, therefore ignorance cannot be used as an excuse.

 

[StCsDavid]

Hi,

My problem is this, how do I come to an acceptance that if a murderer confesses and repents before death they may end up in Heaven? I am really struggling with this…

Read Matthew 20:1-15.

It would seem that no matter when you hear the Master’s call, the reward is equal to those who heard it earlier. Should we not rejoice that even our brothers who made a mess out of their lives can still gain redemption? Does that not mean the Lord will also extends his mercy to us?

 

[Alda]

My approach is to not tackle this problem head-on, but instead to contemplate Heaven and Hell. We have here two places, complete opposites of each other, Heaven is pure bliss, and Hell is pure…hell?. After meditating on the sheer joy of Heaven and the permanency of the afterlife, how can we not wish everyone will get to Heaven? Even here on earth (and more specifically, Canada), we only lock up our murderers for 20 years, (plus parole). Why would we wish them an eternity of pain in Hell if we only punish them for a finite period here?

I’m afraid this last point doesn’t really work for me since I do believe that murderers should be imprisoned for life.

Even in contemplating Heaven and Hell I’m not sure I would wish for a murderer to go to Heaven. Maybe I need to work on that…what I would say is that for me I tend to consider more the feelings of the loved ones left behind. Would they think the person who murdered their loved one/s deserved Heaven? Or would they wish Heaven for them? I’m not so sure. I understand that they are not God and don’t make those decisions, but I still sympathise with them.

 

[Alda]

My

I think it’s connected to our inability to fully comprehend the absolute wonder of every individual human soul. God thoughtfully created each one and loves every one of them/us individually. As a mother, you’ve experienced only an inkling (for your children) of such love. What joy a parent has when a child repents of evil. Again, that’s only an inkling of God’s joy.

If we haven’t reached the point of loving the sinner for his own sake, perhaps we can rejoice in the sinner’s salvation for God’s sake - out of love for God and being elated because we know how much joy it is giving Him.

From one mother to another,
Nita

This was helpful. Thankyou.

 

[Alda]

Read Matthew 20:1-15.

It would seem that no matter when you hear the Master’s call, the reward is equal to those who heard it earlier. Should we not rejoice that even our brothers who made a mess out of their lives can still gain redemption? Does that not mean the Lord will also extends his mercy to us?

I did read this, thankyou. I’m working on accepting this teaching fully.

I still tend to go back to the faith with good works ideal, ie how can last minute repentance fully atone for a life of bad works? Sorry, I’m not so good at organising my thoughts, Todd Easton’s post above said it much more eloquently.

 

[Spirithound]

I’m afraid this last point doesn’t really work for me since I do believe that murderers should be imprisoned for life.

I also agree that murderers should be imprisoned for life, and that sort of occurred to me as I was writing.

 

[Alda]

I also agree that murderers should be imprisoned for life, and that sort of occurred to me as I was writing.

Oh okay, thanks for posting.

 

[rciadan]

Let’s not forget about plenetary indulgences which wipe away all temporal punishment.

There are conditions to plenary indulgences: one must intend to receive it, go to confession within a short time frame upon the reception, and, usually, complete some sort of work specified by the grantor of the indulgence. These days especially I would say that it is rare for anyone to actually receive an indulgences even when given the oppotunity…

 

[LilyM]

I’m afraid this last point doesn’t really work for me since I do believe that murderers should be imprisoned for life.

Even in contemplating Heaven and Hell I’m not sure I would wish for a murderer to go to Heaven. Maybe I need to work on that…what I would say is that for me I tend to consider more the feelings of the loved ones left behind. Would they think the person who murdered their loved one/s deserved Heaven? Or would they wish Heaven for them? I’m not so sure. I understand that they are not God and don’t make those decisions, but I still sympathise with them.

But no-one, not even the most virtuous person on the planet, *deserves *heaven. We all sin, and to a perfectly good God even what we consider ‘minor’ sins are incredibly distressing and offensive. And worthy of hell, as one of the epistles says ‘he who transgresses part [even the smallest part] of the law is guilty of all’.

Without Christ’s redemptive death none of us would attain heaven. That’s why every one of us, with complete truth, prays at each Mass ‘Lord, I am not worthy …’, since none of us is.

Once you realise that we ALL attain heaven only through God’s mercy, grace and forgiveness, and Jesus’ death for us, I think you’ll start to realise that it’s inconsistent at best to hope for these things for yourself and yet wish them to be denied to anyone else.

 

[Sir_Knight]

There are conditions to plenary indulgences: one must intend to receive it, go to confession within a short time frame upon the reception, and, usually, complete some sort of work specified by the grantor of the indulgence. These days especially I would say that it is rare for anyone to actually receive an indulgences even when given the oppotunity…

These days are no different from any other days and while plentary indulgences may be diffcult to obtain, they are not out of our reach or out of the reach of a murderer who has sincerely repented.

 

[Eileen_T]

What if the murderer was your own child? Would you feel no compassion if you knew they had truly repented? Would you reject then totally and forever from your love?

We are all guilty of murder, the murder of our God. It was our sins that crucified Jesus, yet not only God forgives us when we repent, but, even more amazingly, His Blessed Mother loves us and desires our salvation after what she witnessed us do to her darling Son.

 

[rciadan]

These days are no different from any other days and while plentary indulgences may be diffcult to obtain, they are not out of our reach or out of the reach of a murderer who has sincerely repented.

So true. My point was that so few avail themselves of such awesome graces, mostly out of a lack of knowledge of such things. Your average CAF surfer is much more informed about their faith than your average parishioner, from my experience.