Music and the New Translation

[jantoniello]

I was wondering if anyone has experienced the new English translation in the Liturgy yet. I went to Mass yesterday at the Cathedral, and as much as I love the new translations, I must admit nothing has really changed musically. I read so often from places like Chant Cafe and New Liturgical Movement how much the music will finally express the beauty of the Liturgy, but I must say that this is not the case in the Diocese of Lubbock. Just as much bad music, clapping and lack of singing from the congregation.

Have any of you had any experience with the new translation? As far as the music goes, has it been better? Worse? The same?

Pax et bonum,
Joseph

 

[corsair]

I certainly hope that our OF choir director takes advantage of the english chant available to us in the new music. If not then it’ll be the same old same old.

Trying to keep a positive outlook.

 

[mcmitton]

The bishop of our diocese of Indianapolis has authorized the use of the revised Roman Missal musical settings of the “Gloria”, “Holy, Holy, Holy”, 3 mysteries of faith, and the unchanged “Amen”, and “Lamb of God” beginning on the 1st of September, just a few days away.

The liturgical recommendations for our diocese for the musical settings were given as the ICEL chant setting and Haugen’s “Storrington Mass”.

Our parish has used the Latin settings for the “Sanctus”, “Amen” and “Lamb of God” during Lent for several years, so the English version of those will be easy to learn. We need only to learn the “Gloria” chant melody and mysteries to have two mass settings for our congregation.

Change is difficult for some, exciting for others, and more work for the musicians and choirs and priests to learn the new responses and prayers.

Our parish is nearly ready for September 1st, although the verses of the Gloria are “rough”.

Good luck to all!

 

[Joannm]

I was wondering if anyone has experienced the new English translation in the Liturgy yet. I went to Mass yesterday at the Cathedral, and as much as I love the new translations, I must admit nothing has really changed musically. I read so often from places like Chant Cafe and New Liturgical Movement how much the music will finally express the beauty of the Liturgy, but I must say that this is not the case in the Diocese of Lubbock. Just as much bad music, clapping and lack of singing from the congregation.

Have any of you had any experience with the new translation? As far as the music goes, has it been better? Worse? The same?

Pax et bonum,
Joseph

We are not allowed to use the revised texts unitl Nov 27. Beginning in a few weeks our bishop said we can use the sung Gloria and the Eucharistic Acclamations, but ONLY when sung, so that means at daily mass when we have no music, the current text has to be used.

It doesn’t affect the style of music, only the texts. So there are many contemporary settings of the texts that will be used. In our parish we found the ICEL chant for the Gloria to be complicated and a bit drawn out. The pastor said it sounds like a funeral dirge. We will be using the Gloria Simplex by Christopher Walker and are thinking of his Mass of St. Paul the Apostle for more festive occasions. I think this has a sung through and an assembly response version. We will probably be using the ICEL chants for the acclamations at first until we find other setting to go back and forth with. We usually switch settings when the liturgical seasons change.

 

[Sarabande]

I have found that a lot of previous mass setting were just reset with the new translation, although I know that there are new settings. Some have been fine. Others pretty bad. Not that it is so important, but I have honestly yet to be completely in love with a mass setting - new or old. I do like the Proulx’s arrangement of Schubert’s Deutsche Messe. He had it reset to the new translation before he passed away. And I like his Community Mass which was also reset with the new translation. I believe for our diocese, they are promoting the use of the revised version of Proulx’s “Mass for the City”. (I’m playing it right now and my 19-month-old is actually swaying with the music. haha!)

 

[puzzleannie]

I was wondering if anyone has experienced the new English translation in the Liturgy yet. I went to Mass yesterday at the Cathedral, and as much as I love the new translations, I must admit nothing has really changed musically. I read so often from places like Chant Cafe and New Liturgical Movement how much the music will finally express the beauty of the Liturgy, but I must say that this is not the case in the Diocese of Lubbock. Just as much bad music, clapping and lack of singing from the congregation.

Have any of you had any experience with the new translation? As far as the music goes, has it been better? Worse? The same?

Pax et bonum,
Joseph

what our music people report from the workshops gives the opposite impression, particularly some of the most popular and least liturgically correct gloria’s and sanctus’ are going bye bye. yeah, if the project accomplished only this it would be worthwhile

 

[Sarabande]

what our music people report from the workshops gives the opposite impression, particularly some of the most popular and least liturgically correct gloria’s and sanctus’ are going bye bye. yeah, if the project accomplished only this it would be worthwhile

That would be nice. We musicians are keeping our fingers crossed with that as well. Although I do know that some are still planning on just using the revised versions.

 

[I_Thirst]

The music won’t change. Our parish is caught in the clutches of OCP/GIA tripe. I’ve seen and heard some of the new settings that are being selected in our parish. We have good choirs, and some are very good, but the music they select is absolutely terrible. We have a new reverent translation that will be used in the same old irreverent settings.

New wine will be poured in old, sour skins.

 

[corsair]

I agree with you, I Thirst. Our OF parish is hung up on OCP. Can’t afford to leave. Besides they make the financing of missalettes soooooo easy. Its like getting a “payday loan”.

Once you are hooked, you are stuck.

 

[Bluegoat]

I agree with you, I Thirst. Our OF parish is hung up on OCP. Can’t afford to leave. Besides they make the financing of missalettes soooooo easy. Its like getting a “payday loan”.

Once you are hooked, you are stuck.

I’m curious about how this works? How is it that they make it financially difficult to leave?

 

[Transformer]

I’m curious about how this works? How is it that they make it financially difficult to leave?

I’m not sure exactly what corsair means, but it might be something like this. As I understand it, to get a Missal and a hymnal from OCP in the pews, it costs $4.50/year. With WLP, it costs even less: $4.20/year. If a parish has been paying exactly that price for a decade or two, and is used to just maintaining a bunch of subscriptions, I imagine it would be difficult to make a switch to any other system.

Say a traditionalist-leaning music director was looking to invest in the new Vatican II Hymnal. It includes all the readings for all three years of the rotation, as well as the texts of the propers and a good bunch of hymns, so it could theoretically serve as the only book a parish needs in the pews. But even with its being sold at cost, it will cost $15 at least. Picture that music director explaining to his pastor (who is a good shepherd and well-meaning but sees nothing wrong with OCP) that this year the music program is going to spend $6000 instead of $1800 on books alone. I imagine the answer would be “Yeah… no.” And that’s with a book that will be sold as cheaply as possible and can perhaps cover everything you need. Even if you think the new hardcover book(s) will last 10 years and so eventually make up the cost, it’s hard to justify spending so much in one go when the big-publisher softcover subscription model is so easy and familiar. I suppose the parish could borrow the money, take out a long-term note from the bank or something, but that’s scary in itself.

The take into account the major publishers’ powerful marketing: they work hard to sell their books and their system to dioceses and individual parishes. All this is, as I understand it, the reason why the quasi-traditionalists at the CMAA and similar organizations and websites like to make themselves out as the creative-commons-license-loving, selling-books-at-cost, you-can-download-our-stuff-for-free saviors of the Catholic music world. And perhaps they really are.

 

[Phemie]

Even if you think the new hardcover book(s) will last 10 years and so eventually make up the cost, it’s hard to justify spending so much in one go when the big-publisher softcover subscription model is so easy and familiar. I suppose the parish could borrow the money, take out a long-term note from the bank or something, but that’s scary in itself.

That’s when you do what our former pastor did: ask parishioners to consider offering a copy to the parish in memory of a deceased relative or friend. We put all the hymnals we needed in the pews by doing that. Our only expense was the label we put in each with the name of the donor and the intention. The K of C donated one for each of their deceased members.

 

[Bluegoat]

That’s when you do what our former pastor did: ask parishioners to consider offering a copy to the parish in memory of a deceased relative or friend. We put all the hymnals we needed in the pews by doing that. Our only expense was the label we put in each with the name of the donor and the intention. The K of C donated one for each of their deceased members.

That is what our parish is doing now for BCPs, as we need to add some more.

I don’t think though it would actually be difficult to save money other ways. The service is the same, mostly, every week, there is no copyright on the Bible, and there are plenty of good hymns without copyrights either.

 

[Phemie]

That is what our parish is doing now for BCPs, as we need to add some more.

I don’t think though it would actually be difficult to save money other ways. The service is the same, mostly, every week, there is no copyright on the Bible, and there are plenty of good hymns without copyrights either.

Ah, but there is a copyright on the Bible, depending on which translation you’re using. There is one on the NAB, the Bible on which the US Lectionary is based. If I’m not mistaken there is also a copyright on the ICEL texts.

 

[I_Thirst]

Ah, but there is a copyright on the Bible, depending on which translation you’re using. There is one on the NAB, the Bible on which the US Lectionary is based. If I’m not mistaken there is also a copyright on the ICEL texts.

True, but the Vulgate and Douay Rheims are in the public domain. Of course, those aren’t being used in at most Masses today. But the EF is different – I’d guess that it uses the Vulgate and that the texts used in the Mass parts and hymns would be in public domain.

 

[Phemie]

True, but the Vulgate and Douay Rheims are in the public domain. Of course, those aren’t being used in at most Masses today. But the EF is different – I’d guess that it uses the Vulgate and that the texts used in the Mass parts and hymns would be in public domain.

Which of course is not much help to most parishes dealing with the new translation and new settings for Mass.

If one is truly dedicated to good music then a good hymnal rather than disposable annuals such as ‘Breaking Bread’ is worth buying. I cringe when I think of how much paper is wasted by publishing something like “Breaking Bread” and making it a copyright violation to use it for longer than the year for which it’s printed resulting in millions of copies in landfills each year. I don’t know why parishes can’t take a long-term view and buy something that will last 10 years +. The price ends up being less per year than the disposable books.

In Canada, the CBW III has been in use for 17 years. That’s a little longer than the CBW II and the original CBW had each been in use. CBW III is a hardcover hymnal and for the new translation they published a softcover supplement that includes the text of the Ordinary of Mass minus the EPs, 40 new hymns, the ICEL chant setting + 3 new settings (which aren’t great). This supplement will be in use until the next version of the CBW or whatever they decide to call the next national hymnal.

 

[Bluegoat]

Ah, but there is a copyright on the Bible, depending on which translation you’re using. There is one on the NAB, the Bible on which the US Lectionary is based. If I’m not mistaken there is also a copyright on the ICEL texts.

Is it against the rules to use a different translation? And even if you wanted to use the NAB, I am guessing that the copyright isn’t owned by the music company - it would probably be entirely possible to make arrangements directly with the publisher.

Anyway, I think my thought is that really this is only an issue if the people making the decisions actually think the bad music, isn’t. Otherwise a bit of creativity could probably solve the issue.

 

[Phemie]

Is it against the rules to use a different translation?

Yes.

And even if you wanted to use the NAB, I am guessing that the copyright isn’t owned by the music company - it would probably be entirely possible to make arrangements directly with the publisher.

The copyright belongs to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, so yes, it might be possible.

Anyway, I think my thought is that really this is only an issue if the people making the decisions actually think the bad music, isn’t. Otherwise a bit of creativity could probably solve the issue.

True enough, if your music director is a rabid Haugen/Haas/St. Louis Jesuit fan you won’t get anywhere with hymns that are in the public domain.

 

[ProVobis]

Is it against the rules to use a different translation?

Yes, every translation is copyrightable. And if it goes to court, a judge would need to rule on whether it’s different than any other translation.

The original copyright belongs to the author(s). This can be sold to a publisher or website.

One word of caution here is that even though it might be in the public domain, it can be published and that publisher can claim copyrights so that it would be a violation if one copies it electronically as well.

Anyway, I think my thought is that really this is only an issue if the people making the decisions actually think the bad music, isn’t. Otherwise a bit of creativity could probably solve the issue.

This is very risky.

 

[Windmill]

Our parish is considering the St. Michael Hymnal. It will have the new translations for the English mass parts. It has many traditional hymns with the non-inclusive original verses, Latin mass settings (OF), and beautiful English mass settings. It also has some of the more popular modern English hymns (that have orthodox theology) in order to be sensitive to the ingrained (mediocre) hymns we’ve grown accustomed to. The idea is not to completely alienate the people, but rather to wean them gradually with one hymnal.

Another benefit is that this hymnal is very affordable.

Be sure and check out the sample music clips on their website. It’s very beautiful.

http://www.stmichaelhymnal.com/Port...hymnal-traditional-non-inclusive-catholic.jpg