Music at Mass

[catholictiger]

Please direct me to this great Catholic music because honestly I don’t see it in my hymnals. >.< The music in my hymnals is all very dated and difficult to sing along with (which is why my music team has taken to seeking music outside of the Catholic circle of composers).

PS: This was not meant as a defensive question but an honest one. Really, please recommend some great Catholic music because I haven’t seen any yet (beyond Gregorian Chant which the parish would not respond well to).

what hymnals do you use?

 

[Kal2012]

It’s funny to me that the music is too Protestant for you but “Parish Shopping” is not.

You’ve got to love irony.

It wasn’t until I joined CAF that I realized that parish boundaries matter. I was already most of the way through RCIA at that point. It is what is.

 

[Elizium23]

I would suggest that the composer does matter, particularly when we are discussing living composers and extant publishing houses which all have a financial interest in selling their music. Now if we use uncopyrighted music by a dead non-Catholic like Wesley, who is to argue with that? As long as the music meets the objective standards for beauty set by Aquinas, and the lyrics comport with Catholic theology and not Protestant, and the whole thing is suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, then what’s the harm for a dead non-Catholic?

But for living non-Catholics vs. living Catholics who have a financial interest, to me there is a significant difference. We should be supporting Catholic causes and Catholic apostolates which hold to Catholic teaching. Even if a band creates the most inoffensive Christian Contemporary Music that doesn’t bother Catholics, or LDS, or Adventists, or Pentecostals, how is that music preferable at all to music written by Catholics containing Catholic theology which does offend Protestants, LDS, and Jehovah’s Witnesses?

When singing at Mass, we should be catechized and taught the faith, not merely entertained. “How Beautiful” is catechizing, yes, but is it a type of music recommended by the Church? No. Is it played on instruments recommended by the Church or known for sacred and not profane use? No. Its musical style is banal and its instruments are banal. It is also hard to sing chorally or with the whole assembly and not set in appropriate four-part harmony for a large choir setting. Therefore it should be rejected out of hand as not suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, no matter how awesome the lyrics seem.

 

[Kal2012]

I can’t for the life of me understand why any Catholic, even the most conservative or traditional Catholic, could possibly object to Twila Paris’ “How Beautiful” in the Mass.

Those who dislike CCM used in the Mass need to be careful to consider each song separately and not just lump all the songs into one category and reject them for Mass as “banal” or “unsingable” or “inappropriate.”

Look, I get it. People want music that they can sing and enjoy.

For me, my general disdain for CCM comes from the attitude which suggests that traditional music isn’t worthy of our attention and time. Also, the attitude that we have to switch to CCM in order to be “hip/cool” to keep young people in our churches. Which is especially ironic at this time because a lot of people are joining liturgical churches because they want something more traditional and sacred in their worship experiences.

I just don’t see most CCM as sacred. I think a lot of it is beautiful and inspiring. I just think that we have to be really cautious when we bring it into Mass. As a former Protestant coming out of the “rock concert style” of worship music, this is a biggie for me.

I want my child to grow up with traditional music. I want him to learn to read music and sing songs from the hymnal, not just read words off of a screen. (Again, been there, done that.)

I might revisit the issue when he becomes a teenager and decides that the music isn’t “cool”. At that point, we can talk about the music and the reasons why things are done the way that they are.

I get that parishes want to retain young people and be “relevant”, but I feel a sense of duty to say, " Stop. Let’s consider what we are doing! Are we doing more harm than good?"

 

[nickybr38]

We use hymnals called Glory and Praise.

Thank you for the discussion guys. I really was more concerned with the theology behind the lyrics than anything else. Some wonderful comments have been made.

There is another song we sing that is SO CATHOLIC, it’s really ridiculously Catholic, but written by a Protestant. With lyrics like this:

This is my body given for you
This is the cup that holds the blood of the new covenant
This is forgiveness, simple and true
(This is the way that I have made) for you

Before you eat, Before you drink
Take a long look inside
And tell me what you see
He said, Do this in remembrance of Me.
Do this in remembrance of Me

This is the bread of life broken for you
This is the cup that holds the wine of the new covenant
This is the love of Christ poured out anew
This is the Son of God who died for you

I will remember the cross that You bore for me
I will remember the crown that You wore for me.
I will remember the reason You suffered and died

I must admit that it is funny to me how Catholic some Protestant songs can be. And I think if we know this music, we can encourage our Protestant brothers and sisters to listen to it and maybe, just maybe, it will plant a seed.

Anyway, I’m still reading! Not sure how all to respond but I’m enjoying and learning from the discussion.

 

[Cat]

Look, I get it. People want music that they can sing and enjoy.

For me, my general disdain for CCM comes from the attitude which suggests that traditional music isn’t worthy of our attention and time. Also, the attitude that we have to switch to CCM in order to be “hip/cool” to keep young people in our churches. Which is especially ironic at this time because a lot of people are joining liturgical churches because they want something more traditional and sacred in their worship experiences.

I just don’t see most CCM as sacred. I think a lot of it is beautiful and inspiring. I just think that we have to be really cautious when we bring it into Mass. As a former Protestant coming out of the “rock concert style” of worship music, this is a biggie for me.

I want my child to grow up with traditional music. I want him to learn to read music and sing songs from the hymnal, not just read words off of a screen. (Again, been there, done that.)

I might revisit the issue when he becomes a teenager and decides that the music isn’t “cool”. At that point, we can talk about the music and the reasons why things are done the way that they are.

I get that parishes want to retain young people and be “relevant”, but I feel a sense of duty to say, " Stop. Let’s consider what we are doing! Are we doing more harm than good?"

Most young people would consider How Beautiful an “oldie,” not “hip” or “cool.”

I think it’s sad that you dismiss good music because some people have a negative attitude towards traditional music. I don’t even know what to say.

 

[Cat]

I would suggest that the composer does matter, particularly when we are discussing living composers and extant publishing houses which all have a financial interest in selling their music. Now if we use uncopyrighted music by a dead non-Catholic like Wesley, who is to argue with that? As long as the music meets the objective standards for beauty set by Aquinas, and the lyrics comport with Catholic theology and not Protestant, and the whole thing is suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, then what’s the harm for a dead non-Catholic?

But for living non-Catholics vs. living Catholics who have a financial interest, to me there is a significant difference. We should be supporting Catholic causes and Catholic apostolates which hold to Catholic teaching. Even if a band creates the most inoffensive Christian Contemporary Music that doesn’t bother Catholics, or LDS, or Adventists, or Pentecostals, how is that music preferable at all to music written by Catholics containing Catholic theology which does offend Protestants, LDS, and Jehovah’s Witnesses?

When singing at Mass, we should be catechized and taught the faith, not merely entertained. “How Beautiful” is catechizing, yes, but is it a type of music recommended by the Church? No. Is it played on instruments recommended by the Church or known for sacred and not profane use? No. Its musical style is banal and its instruments are banal. It is also hard to sing chorally or with the whole assembly and not set in appropriate four-part harmony for a large choir setting. Therefore it should be rejected out of hand as not suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, no matter how awesome the lyrics seem.

What “type” of music is recommended by the Church for Mass? Yes, Gregorian chant, but you know and all of us know that very few parishes in the United States use only Gregorian chant in the Mass. Are we all in disobedience to Holy Mother Church because we are singing “Gather Us In?” Of course not, because a balanced reading of the various church documents about music make it clear that many “types” of musical styles are appropriate for the Mass

And exactly what “type” of music is “How Beautiful?” It’s not rock and roll. It’s not jazz. It’s not show tunes.

It’s contemporary sacred music. It is written to be performed by Christians in Christian settings. It is not written for Mass because the composer is not Catholic, but that doesn’t make it inappropriate any more than Bach is inappropriate.

You’re not ever going to hear “How Beautiful” on the pop radio station sung by Beyonce. It’s not secular music.

Banal? The piano is not a “banal” instrument, and the guitar is older than the organ. And as I said in another post, this song could easily be accompanied on the organ. I’ve only been taking organ lessons for three years now, but I’ve learned enough to know that some CCM songs are very beautiful on the organ, and this is one of them.

Have you ever actually sung “How Beautiful” with a congregation? I have. This is not a difficult song to sing in a group. As I said in my earlier post, the melody line is strong and sweet and very easy to sing, even by children. .

If you actually look, you will find arrangements of this song in parts for choir, as well as orchestral scores, and scores for handbells.

I think we need to be careful not to present our own personal preference as “church teaching.” I respect your personal preference in music, but I cannot keep quiet when you set yourself up as an “expert” and cite documents that support your personal preference and ignore documents that oppose your personal preference.

 

[Elizium23]

I think we need to be careful not to present our own personal preference as “church teaching.” I respect your personal preference in music, but I cannot keep quiet when you set yourself up as an “expert” and cite documents that support your personal preference and ignore documents that oppose your personal preference.

Do me a giant favor please and do not place words in my mouth. I think you need to be careful not to do that and present your own personal interpretations as what was actually written. I have never portrayed musical preferences or recommendations as “teaching” and they are never “teaching” because teachings are doctrine, not discipline. Teachings are universally applicable, disciplinary musical preferences are applicable only in the current time to the Latin Church and may be influenced by the region or by the culture.

I am unaware of having ignored authoritative documents which my personal Church preferences. In fact I am unaware of any document which does so, because my personal preferences are the same as that of the Church. Those preferences are not the same of many pastors, or many bishops, so in a real sense the Church herself is schizophrenic in this regard: she prescribes many things and then these are honored in the breach by her leaders. So we have a dilemma. Do as we say, or do as we do? I am a prescriptivist, I have a legalistic approach to all matters, and I believe in reading source documents in order to bolster whatever case I argue. I also have a somewhat limited experience of parishes and dioceses “out in the wild” so I have no academic research but only anecdotal information about what the Church leaders prefer in practice, rather than how they write and publish documents which are accessible on the Internet.

It is true that I have developed strong personal preferences. But I feel that I have developed these following the mind of the Church and in the light of tradition and custom that stretches beyond the beginning of Vatican II and back to the Apostolic Age. Contemporary music has always been with us and has always been 99% junk. It is a tiny sliver of great works which withstand the test of time and come to us intact in the modern age, and that is the way it will always be until Christ returns in glory. It is my personal preference to throw out 99% of contemporary music and prefer time-tested classics, and I personally feel that this should be the practice of the Church as well, but it is not. Money talks.

Money talks and quality walks. When OCP/GIA/WLP rule the roost, they can essentially dictate to the masses what our tastes should be. That is how it works in Corporate America and pretty much the rest of the world in this modern age. It used to be that the Church was the largest patron of arts, and the Church was able to dictate personal tastes to a large extent, but that is no longer true, the Church is smaller and less temporally powerful now, so we have to rely on the laity and parachurch organizations to do the heavy lifting. I have similar distaste for companies such as Microsoft and Burger King which similarly dictate personal taste in their own spheres of competence. Monopolies are not cool (except for the monopoly on salvation) and monopolies were made to be busted. So I will continue railing against OCP/GIA/WLP until their business is turned upside down and they are in receivership because I personally hate their vision and mission, which is opposed to what I am reading in Church documents. These organizations are so fundamentally rotten, so institutionally corrupt, that it is far better to blow them up and start over again.

And we are starting over. Corpus Christi Watershed, Illuminare Publications, the Chant Cafe, Musica Sacra, there are orgs out there which have taken on the mantle of authentic, faithful Church music as prescribed by the documents, and there are bishops and priests who are receptive to this. My bishop especially, and I thought my pastor was on the right track when he purchased the Lumen Christi Missal for the pews, but we fell right back into the clutches of OCP/GIA/WLP again. I feel that much of this iron grip is driven by the people in pews, who prefer to have personal taste dictated to them and spoon-fed, and have become sentimentally accustomed to non-Latin, non-Gregorian, non-sacred-polyphony (which Cat forgot to mention) and non-organ music, and run screaming to the pastor every time he attempts to implement one of these directives given clearly by the Church documents.

But you are correct, Cat, I have failed to make a distinction between the Church descriptive and the Church prescriptive: they are two entirely different animals. So in future I will attempt to always draw this distinction where it is applicable between the practice of ordinaries and pastors vs. what is written in the authoritative Church documents. So thank you for your correction.

 

[Cat]

Elizium,

Money talks? Well, if you think that contemporary Christian musicians (composers, singers, instrumentalists) etc. are rich…you’re wrong. A few have gone on to great wealth, but not because of CCM. Amy Grant married Vince Gill, a country music giant. That’s honestly the only CCM musician I can think of who is wealthy.

There’s no money in music, and even less in CCM.

I personally think your outlook and tone is gloomy and unnecessarily negative towards the Church and other Catholics.

I wonder how you face Catholicism in the U.S. from day to day? Do you think that all the many many people who prefer more modern music in the Mass are “wrong” and you are “right?” And most importantly, do you have a rich and loving relationship with Jesus Christ, while all those other people have…well, what do you think they have? Do you think they are all languishing because of their “junk music?”

My personal outlook on Christian music is that “if it is not against us, it is for us.” I think that as the Catholic Church becomes less “European,” we will see many forms and styles of music used with joy in the Mass. Although the Church will continue to venerate Gregorian chant out of a desire to keep our traditions (small t) going, I don’t think that the Church means for Gregorian chant (and polyphony) to be considered the “best” music style for the Mass, and all other styles are “substandard” or “inferior” or “not as holy.”

I hope that makes sense. This is just my opinion, but I’ve seen it happen in Protestant churches with no ill effects–Evangelical Protestant churches are booming in numbers and in quality of spiritual life for the adherents. Although Evangelical Protestants are converting to Catholicism, many are so happy and committed to their churches that they won’t even take the time to read a pamphlet about Catholicism, let alone come to a Mass.

My husband and I loved our Evangelical Protestant churches so much that God had to work things out so that we actually got kicked out of our church–that’s what caused us to start attending Mass at our neighborhood parish. If we hadn’t gotten kicked out, we never ever would have considered becoming Catholic. We loved our church too much.

Both of us lived through the “music wars” and saw a time when CCM musicians were actually driven away (physically) from the Evangelical Protestant churches, and the music listened to only in dingy little coffee shops. But the music prevailed, and now it’s the prevailing music style in many Evangelical Protestant churches, and YES, people, including many Catholics, attend these churches for the MUSIC. Call it distorted or worldly or shallow, but it’s fact. People in the U.S. are very committed to their music, and that’s something that the Catholic Church needs to be aware of and deal with, IMO.

You say 99% of CCM is junk? Not true! Of course, in Catholic circles, many of these songs are unfamiliar, but that doesn’t mean they are not enduring. (You surely recognize that songs outside of “Catholic music” become classics in whatever genre they are written in, and just because you have never heard of them doesn’t mean that they are not classics."

You don’t walk in Protestant circles, so you don’t realize how many of the CCM songs of the past 50 years have become endruing classics. One of those songs, “Shepherd of Love,” was one of the first “CCM” songs, and was originally condemned by churches as “worldly” and “jazz.” Now it’s a classic. Many of the songs that were once CCM “hits” are now standard hymns in Protestant hymnals, and are as well known and beloved by Protestants as "Hail Holy Queen is known and love by Catholics.

Anyway, I hope you will try to become a little less “uptight” about Mass music. (Boy, that’s a 1960s word, isn’t it?). I can’t see living so rigidly.

 

[catholictiger]

Most young people would consider How Beautiful an “oldie,” not “hip” or “cool.”

I think it’s sad that you dismiss good music because some people have a negative attitude towards traditional music. I don’t even know what to say.

There are a growning number of young people who want Chant and Antiphons to be in the Mass, and not “blessed be your name”, “how beautiful”, name any other praise and worship song you can think of lol. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a continued renewal of good Catholic Music at Mass in the near future, I mean more parishes singing chant, more parishes chanting the Mass parts instead of some of the things we here these days at Mass . I fully suspect that if you were to have a life teen parish and a very traditional parish, both celebrating the OF that teens would be more attracted to the very traditional parish than the life teen parish. Introduce teens to good Catholic Music and they will love it. I think the only people who would be hesitant or restraint to change in the Mass are the adults who are use to the same thing over and over again.

 

[catholictiger]

My personal outlook on Christian music is that “if it is not against us, it is for us.” I think that as the Catholic Church becomes less “European,” we will see many forms and styles of music used with joy in the Mass. Although the Church will continue to venerate Gregorian chant out of a desire to keep our traditions (small t) going, I don’t think that the Church means for Gregorian chant (and polyphony) to be considered the “best” music style for the Mass, and all other styles are “substandard” or “inferior” or “not as holy.”

I don’t want to interfere with the discussion you two are having but I do want to comment on this. The Church venerates Gregorian Chant because it is the highest form of music, not just because we want to keep traditions. Gregorian Chant is set apart from other types of music, it is not metered meaning there is no beat to it. This separates it makes holy which simply means set apart. I have no issues with Hymns, polyphony (which is also preferred by the Church) etc. But Chant is what the Church desires, now of course she isn’t strict in this desire for this type of music but I still think we should push for it. Again I have no issues with a good bit of the music that is in the Church, now there are some really bad stuff that I can’t like or approve of but I guess you would be on the same page.

Another thing I think what is best for the Church is music that isn’t so complex that no-one can sing (see operatic mass for an example) and not so simple that it just becomes playing music at Mass. We have to find a good balance. Another note, Music isn’t something to be done at mass it is part of the Mass. I think to many Churches have this issue, they sing hymns because that is what we do at Mass, we like signing “all are welcome” because we think it is a good hymn. No music at Mass should help us enter more deeply in to the sacrifice of thanksgiving to God. The Church wants us to enter into the eternal Sacrifice of Christ, she wants us to actively participate in the eternal prayer of God that we get to experience every day at Mass. Music should help us reach that goal.

 

[nickybr38]

I dont mind chant but nobody I know can sing it… so… maybe if more chanters actually volunteered at Mass we could do it. As it stands our music is done by amateurs who desperately love God but aren’t well versed musicians (myself included).

 

[Elizium23]

I think that there are many cradle Catholics, especially in America, and some Protestant converts who don’t get it. They don’t understand Catholic identity and they don’t realize what it is to be culturally Catholics, to be separate and distinct from Protestant or pagan or Islamic or Hindu culture. Some don’t see the Catholic Church as unique and exalted, but rather view her as one choice among many, just another Megachurch, to which they happen to belong and owe allegiance, but that allegiance is so weak that many would be better off if they simply defected to some Evangelical sect rather than banging their heads against the wall trying to change the Church from within into something she is not.

It’s the pernicious lie of the “Spirit of Vatican II”. It’s the wrongheaded belief that the Church is more multiculti than ever before in history, therefore she should be molded into a paragon of “inclusivity and diversity” which means bulldozing all sense of identity and uniqueness and buying into secularism at the expense of Truth and Beauty.

The Catholic Church is not one choice among many, she is the only choice! She is not just slightly better than the Megachurch down the road, she is the true path to salvation! We don’t simply have more doctrines than the Baptists, we have all the doctrines! We might look and live like Mormons on the surface, but we have the secret of Eternal Life, and they don’t! Sure, there are similarities in all religions, all have elements of light in them, but non-Catholic religions have elements of Satan in them as well, the demonic, leading people away from Truth and Beauty, away from salvation. Therefore we need to be scrupulously aware of what is and what isn’t Catholic, and strive not to admit those demonic elements which homogenize and pasteurize the Faith, watering it down into something unrecognizable, something that doesn’t lead people to glorify God and into personal holiness.

I am not saying that simply admitting a song such as “How Beautiful” is suitable for worship would be letting in the Smoke of Satan. I am not saying that we should reject all contemporary music out-of-hand because it is fundamentally awful. I am saying that we need to recover hard-identity Catholicism, the hard-identity which Father Z blogs so often about. The kind of Catholicism that leads priests to erect confessionals next to their business offices, the kind of Catholicism that leads women back to covering their heads. The kind of Catholicism which calls us all to stricter disciplines of prayer, fasting and almsgiving during Lent, not just the bare minimum required in Canon Law. The kind of Catholicism which those who attend the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite strive to recover from the ashes of “Spirit of Vatican II”. I am not saying we should all be Traditionalists. I think this is one calling, one spirituality out of many possible in the Latin Church. In fact I welcome “contemporary” style services for those parishes and groups which feel they need them. I welcome them, of course on the condition that the rubrics are faithfully observed, and this is the key problem in “contemporary” and “progressive” celebrations, is that they are always tempted to veer away from what the liturgical books say, from what competent authority has legislated, and from the spirit of liturgy which gives right worship to God and treats the Eucharist with utmost reverence and respect. If a contemporary service can accomplish its goal of reaching people where they are while still observing the law, and the spirit of the law, then so be it.

 

[Elizium23]

This is the problem I see in Nativity Parish of Timonium, MD, which is the source of Rebuilt: The Story of a Catholic Parish. They offer a radical departure from Catholic identity in the makeup and operation of their parish organization. They borrowed many things from Evangelical Megachurches and adapted it to Catholic usage, and they succeeded. They had more success than anyone could ever imagine, and they are packing the pews and embarking on a capital campaign to build huge new buildings to accommodate the burgeoning masses as they attend the Mass. This is great news, they are reaching the lost. However, what of the Mass? Are they engaged in right worship of the Lord which focuses on Eucharist and sacrifice? Well, I watch these liturgies every week on livestream. First of all, great on them for livestreaming liturgy. More parishes should consider streaming their Masses if they are able, it helps the homebound participate and it increases transparency. However, this transparency allowed me to see some rather ugly things. The CCM music used in the liturgy has weak theology and banal themes. The Psalms are never the correct one from the Lectionary, but since they insist on using the most current CCM, there have not been enough Psalms composed to follow the Lectionary cycle, and they rehash the same Psalm over and over throughout the duration of a “Message” series. It’s more than music, I can ignore the music and concentrate on the text of the Mass, but I am again disappointed. Ad libs are sometimes subtly slipped in. “Lay homilies” are rampant and defended by the staff as proper. Nobody kneels and the new buildings will have kneelers, but the pastor, Rev. White, encourages people not to kneel if they don’t want to.

All of this is disappointing to me, because there are many good things about Megachurches which could be copied and adopted so that Catholics better reach the lost. However, we must never do it at the expense of Catholic identity. We must always stress the differences between Catholic teaching and the rest of them. We must share the unique gem that is the true Gospel message preserved by Holy Tradition. If the Church begins to look like any other Protestant denomination, or more like Islam or Hinduism than authentic Catholicism, then that is a giant leap towards the utter destruction of the Church. Not that we should fear annihilation because Christ promised us the Gates of Hell shall not prevail. But we want the Church to thrive, to grow, to expand, not to survive, not to suffer, not to shrink and lose influence. Perhaps it will do the latter things in a cyclical fashion throughout all of history, but in every age, we must have people who are willing to stand up for Catholic identity, to celebrate what makes us unique, and to foster an appreciation for the classical arts and sacred arts so that they are preserved as a legacy for future generations.

The Church, and her treasury of doctrine as well as her deposit of sacred art, architecture, and music, is merely on loan to us from God. Jesus has entrusted us as stewards of his Bride - we must care for her and nurture her and husband her because she is also our own Bride. Perhaps there are some women who can’t understand that, but I’m a never-married man, and I have come to understand the true nature of marriage and liturgy. I suggest to Cat and others who feel and think like she does, that they undergo a thorough Catholic Bible study of the Book of Revelation. There is so much rich symbolism and teaching about the Church, the Sacred Liturgy, and the Sacrament of Matrimony in that book that we cannot come away without a heightened sense of hard-identity Catholicism.

You will be in my prayers. God bless you.

 

[nickybr38]

… wow. So now im not properly Catholic because im a convert? … just wow.

 

[catholictiger]

I dont mind chant but nobody I know can sing it… so… maybe if more chanters actually volunteered at Mass we could do it. As it stands our music is done by amateurs who desperately love God but aren’t well versed musicians (myself included).

I disagree it isn’t hard to sing especially simple chant.

Check out the Lumen Christi Missal it is not to hard to learn IMO. If a parish has a decent cantor and decent organist/pianist the faithful can pick up chant pretty quickly. I would suggest a parish starting with the mass parts which are very easy. Most of which are no more than 5 different pitches.

Even simpler chant can be found in things like the midline psalter, and even a simple plain tone chant can be really easy to introduce in a parish.

 

[nickybr38]

I disagree it isn’t hard to sing especially simple chant.

Check out the Lumen Christi Missal it is not to hard to learn IMO. If a parish has a decent cantor and decent organist/pianist the faithful can pick up chant pretty quickly. I would suggest a parish starting with the mass parts which are very easy. Most of which are no more than 5 different pitches.

Even simpler chant can be found in things like the midline psalter, and even a simple plain tone chant can be really easy to introduce in a parish.

Ill suggest it to my music team.

 

[ProVobis]

I dont mind chant but nobody I know can sing it… so… maybe if more chanters actually volunteered at Mass we could do it. As it stands our music is done by amateurs who desperately love God but aren’t well versed musicians (myself included).

It will be a slow development, for sure. But in those parishes where the Latin Sanctus and Agnus Dei are sung, for example, I am beginning to hear enthusiastic responses. Including my own.

Extended chants, such as those sung by vocalists during the Introit or Gradual using the old music notations in the EF, for example, would be a lot harder.

 

[Elizium23]

Gloomy? My outlook is far from gloomy. Perhaps you see that because I am opposed to your personal tastes, but you need to look deeper. I think that if you met me and got to know me that you would rethink your assessment. Yes, I have some pessimistic views, of the popular culture, of secular liberalism, of Population Control, of disobedience and irreverence, and of bad liturgy, I have seen a lot of bad things in my time. But I have also seen Truth and Beauty. It has been revealed to me by the Church and through the grace of God. And therefore I am the one who sees the light at the end of the tunnel. And it is a tunnel we are in, a post-Conciliar gloom where much turmoil has been brought and much debate exercised over what the Council meant and how we are to apply it to our life today.

I know what we are capable of as a Church. I have seen Truth and Beauty exemplified in the Sacred Liturgy on many, many occasions. I have great faith and confidence in our priests and bishops in their potential to bring forth reverent and uplifting celebrations which are fitting and proper for the worship of God, as well as meeting the people where they are, speaking to them in their hearts, and gently evangelizing them to a life of personal holiness and giving glory to God above.

Gloomy? Not so much as discerning, discriminating; you might call me persnickety, picky, uptight, but I am an appreciator as well as a producer of fine art. I take pride in my own craft, and while the source material is not always up to my standards, I faithfully discharge my duty as a Minister of the Word to sing it elegantly, reverently, and faithfully so that the assembly may join in singing and we all join with the priest and other ministers in offering right worship to the Holy Trinity. There is no greater objective than worshiping God so we had better get it exactly right. We have plenty of time to do so. But we do not know when our individual time will be up, and then all that is left is to plan a Funeral Mass. We need to work to improve worship and liturgy for future generations, because the Church Militant is not a relic of a bygone age, she is not a tantalizing idealistic myth that cannot be reached, and she is not the personal plaything of priests and bishops and the laity to use as an ideological weapon. She is the Bride of Christ, and she deserves only the finest that we can offer.

What is this finery of which I speak and how can we define it? We simply take the treasury of all the Catholic music ever written, and we evaluate it objectively by the recommendations of the Church as well as St. Thomas Aquinas’ standards for Beauty. Then we evaluate it again in a new context of whether it is fitting to a given culture, time and place. We will throw out much defective music in the process. This is a natural winnowing. But we can afford to be discerning and discriminating. It is not unjust discrimination, it is stewardship of God’s gifts. God gave us music so that we may give it back to Him in worship, and nothing unholy or unclean may enter Heaven. So in order that our strains of music reaches the highest heights of Heaven we must make sure it is the very best the Church has to offer.

 

[pnewton]

Nicky,

I think the singability factor needs to be weighed when using a song that you here as a solo. I also find that it is very hard to sing something congregationally that is not in the hymnal. People just do not learn that fast. There is no (zero, nada) requirement that the composer be Catholic. That’s just a made-up standard some like. You will not find this in any Church document. I have found here that Cat offers a rather balanced view and years of experience. We have a thread in which we swap different line-ups for Mass that some of us use.

Tradcatholic poster earlier had one of the most poignant points. Too much of anything is usually not good. For Mass, only the best of the best should be used. This means too much reliance on any one composer, genre or time period will necessitate some lower quality material.