Music at mass?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Margarite
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
-For liberal I would say On Eagle Wings, Amazing Grace, Here I am Lord, Let There be Peace on Earth, Gift of Finest Wheat, I am the Bread of Life…

😉
I don’t know why you label these songs “liberal” Certainly they are contemporary compositons (except for Amazing Grace), but I would not classify them as liberal.
 
I don’t know why you label these songs “liberal” Certainly they are contemporary compositons (except for Amazing Grace), but I would not classify them as liberal.
For some people, “contemporary” = “liberal”. 🤷
 
Sorry for the confusion. I was trying to come up with the options and I just couldn’t find the right ones. Is there any way for me to change the poll? or add another poll?:o :confused:

-For traditional I would say it means Latin

-For middle of the road I would say songs like Faith of Our Fathers, Sing of Mary, O Lord I am not Worthy, Come Holy Ghost…

-For liberal I would say On Eagle Wings, Amazing Grace, Here I am Lord, Let There be Peace on Earth, Gift of Finest Wheat, I am the Bread of Life…

Also if you want you can write that you are a mid-trad or a mid-lib.🤷

Now if anyone looked at any of my other posts you will know that I am a trad/mid-trad.😉
OK, when I am off-duty, and on-duty and able to determine material myself, your definitions “traditional” and “middle of the road” apply.

When “on duty” with someone else calling the shots, it can be any of the three (even all three within the one service) but with a filtering process applied to your “liberal” category. To some extent and while within the bounds of licit, he who pays the piper calls the tune, however anyone who employs me knows my view that a church musician is not a liturgical juke box - you don’t get complete freedom of selection just because you are putting money in the slot.
 
Unfortunately, my parish has heavily bought into OCP. I personally have a strong disdain for the St. Louis Jesuits and the Spirit and Song (and Rise Up and Sing) hymnal that OCP puts out. My diocese is pretty much locked into it as well.

I would love for my parish to sing Songs of Thankfulness and Praise, When John Baptized on Jordan River and On Jordan’s Bank. But, we won’t hear it. I also yearn, during Lent, to hear Attende Domine, Parce Domine, Again We Keep this Solemn Fast and O Sun of Justice. But, I will be stuck with Hosea and some other lovely little gem from OCP.

In doing some reasearch, I came across this gem that the late Pope John Paul wrote, the Chirograph on Sacred Music. He makes some very telling remarks that I believe suit the discussion at hand:
Today, moreover, the meaning of the category “sacred music” has been broadened to include repertoires that cannot be part of the celebration without violating the spirit and norms of the Liturgy itself.
St Pius X’s reform aimed specifically at purifying Church music from the contamination of profane theatrical music that in many countries had polluted the repertoire and musical praxis of the Liturgy. In our day too, careful thought, as I emphasized in the Encyclical Ecclesia de Eucharistia, should be given to the fact that not all the expressions of figurative art or of music are able “to express adequately the mystery grasped in the fullness of the Church’s faith”[14]. Consequently, not all forms of music can be considered suitable for liturgical celebrations.
  1. Another principle, affirmed by St Pius X in the Motu Proprio Tra le Sollecitudini and which is closely connected with the previous one, is that of sound form. There can be no music composed for the celebration of sacred rites which is not first of all “true art” or which does not have that efficacy “which the Church aims at obtaining in admitting into her Liturgy the art of musical sounds”[15].
Yet this quality alone does not suffice. Indeed, liturgical music must meet the specific prerequisites of the Liturgy: full adherence to the text it presents, synchronization with the time and moment in the Liturgy for which it is intended, appropriately reflecting the gestures proposed by the rite. The various moments in the Liturgy require a musical expression of their own. From time to time this must fittingly bring out the nature proper to a specific rite, now proclaiming God’s marvels, now expressing praise, supplication or even sorrow for the experience of human suffering which, however, faith opens to the prospect of Christian hope.
These are strong words, that, as far as I can tell, have unfortunately gone unheeded.

While many have made the argument that songs like Eagles Wings, Hosea and Lord of the Mountains are scripturally based, their melodies just don’t quite hack it for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It’s too Barry Manilow-ish and too much of a John Denver style that is a throw back to the seventies pop genre.

Furthermore, the use of contemporary Protestant Praise and Worship music (OCP’s Spirit and Song is heavily laced with it) goes against what JP II talked about. This genre is not consistent with Catholic doctrine, dogma and liturgical theology. Even the stuff like I, Myself, Am the Bread of Life, Anthem, Gather Us In, Anthem, Song of the Body of Christ and We Remember is so dubious in its theology, dogma and doctrine that it doesn’t even resemble what the Church believes and proclaims.

Remember, lex orandi, lex creendi. We pray as we believe. If I may add, we also sing as we pray as we believe.
 
I really can’t vote because I would choose both “Traditional” (all Latin) and “Middle of the Road” (traditional hymns in the vernacular). I also prefer choir and organ for liturgical music (really love renaissance polyphony, motets, etc.), but don’t mind other instrumentation once in a while for special masses.

I’m a cantor, but I would prefer it if I was up front only for the psalm and gospel acclamation and in the choir loft during the rest of the music. I don’t like being an air traffic controller, so I’m as subdued as possible when leading the hymns and I try to stay away from the microphone so that I don’t drown out the congregation.

I’ve sometimes have to remind my grandmother why I’m cantoring when she says things like, “I could hear you during the psalm, but I wanted to hear more of you for the hymns.” I have to remind her that I’m not there as a soloist, but to use my talent for God - not for accolades. Of course I can be heard during the psalm verses, but I’m not there to be the soloist for the hymns since that is supposed to be for congregational singing. I do my “solo singing” for other venues (such as when I’m singing in an opera or a recital, etc.) or if I’m singing a piece of music like the Panis Angelicus for a wedding mass.

I know the inability to differentiate between being a soloist and a leader of song is a problem at my former parish. When the director asked the cantors to stay further away from the mic since the congregation sang very well, many of the cantors wrote nasty notes to him about that. It all became about “them” and being the center of attention. Sadly, I know that some of them use the Mass as their way to being the solo singer they never were.
 
I know the inability to differentiate between being a soloist and a leader of song is a problem at my former parish. When the director asked the cantors to stay further away from the mic since the congregation sang very well, many of the cantors wrote nasty notes to him about that. It all became about “them” and being the center of attention. Sadly, I know that some of them use the Mass as their way to being the solo singer they never were.
I have the opposite problem. I worry so much about drowning out the congregation/turning the Mass into a lounge act (especially since we are miked, as the acoustics in our church are weird in a bad way) that fairly often I receive comments to the effect of “We couldn’t hear you at all, and we were only halfway back.” I’ve tried to be more mindful of that, especially for the psalm and other non-hymn music, because as one of our accompanists says, “If no one can hear you, you’re not really proclaiming the Word of God.” She’s absolutely right. It’s a fine line, though.

benedictgal, sorry to hear about the music at your parish. We sang “When John Baptized By Jordan’s River” for the processional and “On Jordan’s Bank” for the recessional this weekend. :o We’ve sung “Hosea” and similar at different times, but it certainly helps when it’s balanced out by the more traditional stuff.
 
Sadly, I know that some of them use the Mass as their way to being the solo singer they never were.
Off topic comment: even tuppeny-ha’penny local amateur musical societies have more rigorous audition procedures than the parish church IME, and lower tolerance for difficult personalities. So yes, guess where some of those wannabes end up instead? 😦 I’m thinking of cases from experience where it appears that cantoring is the sole outlet for ambitions thwarted elsewhere … their singing is such a part of their indentity that criticism or even guidance is intolerable. I feel deeply for them and their hurt and also for the frustration of others when “management” won’t step in for fear of hurting feelings or provoking an explosion … sad for everyone. It’s one reason why I’m preparing handouts for prospective volunteers and trying to set up a personal (friendly) introductory chat/“interview” system in future … but more on that on another thread later.
 
I have the opposite problem. I worry so much about drowning out the congregation/turning the Mass into a lounge act (especially since we are miked, as the acoustics in our church are weird in a bad way) that fairly often I receive comments to the effect of “We couldn’t hear you at all, and we were only halfway back.” I’ve tried to be more mindful of that, especially for the psalm and other non-hymn music, because as one of our accompanists says, “If no one can hear you, you’re not really proclaiming the Word of God.” She’s absolutely right. It’s a fine line, though.
Yes… it is definitely a fine line. Those mics are big problems sometimes. I agree that it’s important to be heard during the psalm and other parts of the mass. A few Sundays in a row back in the summer where I normally cantor, they had the microphone at the ambo extremely LOUD. :eek: I had to back off far so that I wouldn’t hurt people’s ears and this was during the psalm. Then, sometimes they have the mics so low that you can’t even be heard even during the psalm.

I also think that sometimes people are so used to hearing a miked voice, they are not accustomed to the un-miked voice. The microphone in our chapel organ loft is broken, so for the funerals I usually sing without a microphone. The acoustics are good, funerals are usually not crowded and I’m trained to project my voice without belting, so it works. But it is sometimes a little disconcerting because you have to think differently. Usually for mass, I naturally do not fully project since I have to sing into a microphone, or I will stand very far away. But without a mic, I have to give my full voice - not like an opera singer (which I am) but with more fullness so that the natual acoustics will carry the sound.
 
Off topic comment: even tuppeny-ha’penny local amateur musical societies have more rigorous audition procedures than the parish church IME, and lower tolerance for difficult personalities. So yes, guess where some of those wannabes end up instead? 😦 I’m thinking of cases from experience where it appears that cantoring is the sole outlet for ambitions thwarted elsewhere … their singing is such a part of their indentity that criticism or even guidance is intolerable. I feel deeply for them and their hurt and also for the frustration of others when “management” won’t step in for fear of hurting feelings or provoking an explosion … sad for everyone.
Oh, yes… I’m very familiar with that as well. It is sad. I’m not saying that this is always the case (it isn’t), but those are the ones who give cantors and other church musicians a bad name.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top