Music at my parish

[Karen1996]

I hate to complain, but lately I have become very disappointed in the music they are playing at my church. God forgive me if I’m wrong, but it’s almost as if they are using the Mass to try to showcase the cantor and choir, and pianist/organist. They have begun using really showy and awkward sounding music for the Gloria, Allelujah, the Amen, Our Father, and the Agnus Dei. They’ve added so many syllables to the Our Father, plus with this new music, it feels like it takes 15 minutes to pray the Our Father. What really has got me upset is that yesterday at the 4:00 PM Mass, they actually added a phrase to the end of the Our Father (after “for the kingdom…” part). I was so shocked I couldn’t even determine what was said; I just knew something was wrong. Sometimes it sounds as if Jerry Lee Lewis is on the piano. Not only is it this new sounding music, but they have gotten stuck on the same few hymns. Lately their favorite has been “Softly and Tenderly, Jesus is Calling”. In the last year or so, the only time the music has sounded like it belongs in a Catholic Church has been Advent and Lent, because of this I’m always sad to see these seasons end. Why do you think some people feel the need to tamper with the music?

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Just be glad you’re not at my parish. The Alleluia sounds like the Macarana(sp)

 

[mystified]

Alleluja, cha cha cha!

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Alleluja, cha cha cha!

It’s worse than that. I almost want to do the stupid dance, just to show what I think of it, but that’s disrespectful to the Liturgy. Maybe I could get a couple of JWs or something to sit in the front row and do it…

 

[brotherhrolf]

Hi Karen! Long time no see! Actually, I noted your problem the few times I’ve attended Mass in your parish over the years. Part of it, I believe, is a desire to address the musical tastes of the local culture. Awful lot of folks in our area listen to country/western so Jerry Lee type piano may be an attempt by the music director to “accommodate” the culture. “Softly and Tenderly” sounds like something that would be sung at that big church on River Rd. (?) FBCDS or that domed church next to Walmart.

I’ve never met your pastor or his associate so I don’t know what they think of that. And I didn’t realize the 4:00 Mass was sung. Is the 7:00 am sung? This kind of stuff happened in my parish in Prairieville back in the early 80s (before we moved here 15 years ago) and is why I have been a member of the cathedral parish since 1983 and continue to drive the 25 miles downtown.

Never been to SJV off O’Neal but I know the organist and choir director of STM on Goodwood - they’ve got a good choir and the music is tradtional. These are the two closest parishes to us geographically.

 

[happy2bmom]

We have what my daughters call the “Lamb of God Lounge Lizard Song” Yeah baby, it’s bad!
However, I look at it as people doing their best and since I’m not helping in the choir I’m not going to complain (maybe giggle a little though, it’s pretty awful).

 

[Karen1996]

Hi Karen! Long time no see! Actually, I noted your problem the few times I’ve attended Mass in your parish over the years. Part of it, I believe, is a desire to address the musical tastes of the local culture. Awful lot of folks in our area listen to country/western so Jerry Lee type piano may be an attempt by the music director to “accommodate” the culture. “Softly and Tenderly” sounds like something that would be sung at that big church on River Rd. (?) FBCDS or that domed church next to Walmart.

I’ve never met your pastor or his associate so I don’t know what they think of that. And I didn’t realize the 4:00 Mass was sung. Is the 7:00 am sung? This kind of stuff happened in my parish in Prairieville back in the early 80s (before we moved here 15 years ago) and is why I have been a member of the cathedral parish since 1983 and continue to drive the 25 miles downtown.

Never been to SJV off O’Neal but I know the organist and choir director of STM on Goodwood - they’ve got a good choir and the music is tradtional. These are the two closest parishes to us geographically.

Hi Brotherhrolf, thanks for suggesting SJV and STM. I love our pastor and his associate. They both seem to be very traditional, so the music just doesn’t fit. So, I wonder, could you tell me since you’re in the Cathedral choir: do priests have any influence or (name removed by moderator)ut on the music? BTW, we were really blessed with our new associate. He’s one of the 5 that was ordained this summer. His homilies are strong. I think in everyone that I’ve heard so far, he has stressed going to Confession and other things I have been longing to hear. And one day, he mentioned “be not afraid” and “culture of death” several times.

I’m not sure if 7:00 am is sung or not. It’s been a very long time since I’ve been to that one.

 

[mystified]

Let’s be clear that C&W music is not being used in your parish church rather than proper Catholic music. Each can be good or bad. Each has its place. I am aware of priests, even in the north, who enjoy country music, but who lean toward Gregorian for the Mass. There are several country music entertainers who are Catholics, despite the impressions that C&W folks are Southern Baptists or some form of redneck. Even the late Johnny Cash, not a Catholic, enjoyed listening to traditional music of Catholic worship.
But please, no more Kumbaya!

 

[brotherhrolf]

do priests have any influence or (name removed by moderator)ut on the music?

Yes indeed they do. When we got a new rector at the cathedral in '84, we were told in no uncertain terms “no Latin”. We actually used the 1940 Episcopalian hymnal for all of the chanted sequences (e.g. the Easter sequence, Corpus Christi, etc.) Then we used another protestant hymn book which had English translations of sacred motets like “Sicut Cervus” or “Like as the Hart Desireth the Waterbrook”. (Palestrina rolled over in his grave. )

And we did not sing any Latin again until 1992 when the Cardinal Archbishop of Lyons, France came to celebrate our 200th anniversary, departed from the script, and gave the Apostolic Blessing at the end of Mass in Latin. Five of us out of a choir of 30 knew the proper response. Latin was quickly brought back.

I’m really kind of surprised that all the folks from NO who moved up here aren’t raising questions. That kind of music (i.e. Jerry Lee) is not NO. I’d say start with the music director but you might be better served going straight to Fr. M with your concerns.

 

[Cat]

We have what my daughters call the “Lamb of God Lounge Lizard Song” Yeah baby, it’s bad!
However, I look at it as people doing their best and since I’m not helping in the choir I’m not going to complain (maybe giggle a little though, it’s pretty awful).

This is such a sweet, reasonable post. I think it exemplifies Philippians 4:5.

Thanks so much. We musicians do our best, and it is so discouraging when we have worked hard and really done as well as we can, and someone says negative things and wonders why we don’t play Bach and sing Palestrina. I’m grateful that in the parishes I play piano for, everyone has been so friendly and appreciative, even on days when I feel that I’ve made way too many mistakes and even knocked music off the piano accidentally.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Let’s be clear that C&W music is not being used in your parish church rather than proper Catholic music. Each can be good or bad. Each has its place. I am aware of priests, even in the north, who enjoy country music, but who lean toward Gregorian for the Mass. There are several country music entertainers who are Catholics, despite the impressions that C&W folks are Southern Baptists or some form of redneck. Even the late Johnny Cash, not a Catholic, enjoyed listening to traditional music of Catholic worship.
But please, no more Kumbaya!

Having heard what Karen describes, I think she is trying to describe a style of music which is decidedly more Southern Baptist than Catholic. The Jerry Lee reference is to the arpeggios, etc. common to that style of music.

She and I live in the same town. Geographically, her parish should be my parish. Without being pejoritive, we live in a town five miles away from the parish and it is decidedly “red neck”. There is no Catholic church in our town although the diocese has purchased land just north of us to build a new parish in the future.
It is my belief that the music is designed to “blend-in” with the local community.

The last time I went to Mass at the parish, I was sick (as in a bad cold). The entrance hymn was “Prepare Ye the Way of the Lord” from the musical “Godspell”. It wasn’t even Advent. It went downhill from there.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

The last time I went to Mass at the parish, I was sick (as in a bad cold). The entrance hymn was “Prepare Ye the Way of the Lord” from the musical “Godspell”. It wasn’t even Advent. It went downhill from there.

I personally like that song , but my parish somewhat recently had “All Good Gifts Around Us” (also from Godspell) as the Communion hymn.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I hate to complain, but lately I have become very disappointed in the music they are playing at my church. God forgive me if I’m wrong, but it’s almost as if they are using the Mass to try to showcase the cantor and choir, and pianist/organist. They have begun using really showy and awkward sounding music for the Gloria, Allelujah, the Amen, Our Father, and the Agnus Dei. They’ve added so many syllables to the Our Father, plus with this new music, it feels like it takes 15 minutes to pray the Our Father. What really has got me upset is that yesterday at the 4:00 PM Mass, they actually added a phrase to the end of the Our Father (after “for the kingdom…” part). I was so shocked I couldn’t even determine what was said; I just knew something was wrong. Sometimes it sounds as if Jerry Lee Lewis is on the piano. Not only is it this new sounding music, but they have gotten stuck on the same few hymns. Lately their favorite has been “Softly and Tenderly, Jesus is Calling”. In the last year or so, the only time the music has sounded like it belongs in a Catholic Church has been Advent and Lent, because of this I’m always sad to see these seasons end. Why do you think some people feel the need to tamper with the music?

I generally agree that the state of music in the Church is deplorable. It has no theological “meat” to it at all, all bland, “aren’t we wonderful?” stuff…bleah. That’s said, I grew up Southern Baptist and “Softy and Tenderly, Jesus is Calling” is one of my old favorites. At least it’s more theologically sound that “Sing a New Church” or “I MYSELF am the Bread of Life.”

 

[Joannm]

I personally like that song , but my parish somewhat recently had “All Good Gifts Around Us” (also from Godspell) as the Communion hymn.

The text of that song was actually written in the 18th Century and is found in the Liturgy of the Hours for Morning Prayer of Week II. Not the same melody but the same text.

 

[Kanda]

Because of work, I went to a later mass today than usual. Turns out is was the youth mass. I left wondering if I had just attended mass or a rock concert. Mass went so long because of all of the music. The choir and the band where all teenagers. The drummer kept having longish solos! Yes, I said drummer. Several times the priest thought the choir was done and opened his mouth to speak, then they would keep on singing.

My only real complaint was that they were having their practice right before mass and I was having a lot of difficulty praying and centering myself on Christ as I like to do before mass begins.

However, I will say that all of the instruments were beautifully played and the girls singing had beautiful voices.

 

[tassitus]

I generally agree that the state of music in the Church is deplorable.

It saddens me to agree so much with this statement. After I spent 5-10 minutes of prayerful reflection preparing for Mass this morning, the entrance hymn was announced; the hymn’s name was not given, and we were told it was not in our hymnal. The words, only two lines really, were read to us, and then Mass began.

You know the closing piano music on Saturday Night Live, when the host thanks everyone and tells us all what a great show it was? THAT was what I think I heard for our entrance hymn. I usually sing all songs regardless of style, and I did try this one off and on, but I admit there were times when I just shut up and waited for it to end. It should NOT be like this at Mass.

More and more now I get the feeling the music is an interruption, not in keeping with the content or tone of the Mass.

Maybe I’m just in a funk and will get over it.

But then, I’ve got a great deal of Gregorian chant on my iPod, and have just now thought of something.



(no, I wouldn’t, not at Mass)

Peace all.

 

[redbird444]

…and at the far opposite end of the spectrum…

We have no choir, no organist half the time, and maybe 15 to 25 souls at our Mass. No one sings very loud. Count your blessings.

The cathoics are few and far in between here in this part of the country.

 

[Sr_Sally]

The text of that song was actually written in the 18th Century and is found in the Liturgy of the Hours for Morning Prayer of Week II. Not the same melody but the same text.

Actually ALL the lyrics from Godspell (and most of the written script–obviously not the ad libbed parts) are either directly from Scripture or traditional prayers. You may not like the music, but no one should be complaining about the words of a Godspell song.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Actually ALL the lyrics from Godspell (and most of the written script–obviously not the ad libbed parts) are either directly from Scripture or traditional prayers. You may not like the music, but no one should be complaining about the words of a Godspell song.

The words are not the problem. We, as Catholics, have 1500 years of musical tradition from which we can draw. Why do we need to use the music from a Broadway musical? Why do we need to use the music from a Southern Baptist heritage when we have our own heritage which is not being used? I’m more than old enough to remember the transistion from the music of pre- 1965 to the music of 1965 and beyond. We basically abandoned 1500 years of musical heritage in favor of 40 years of “let’s adapt liturgical music to the current style”. Style in the 21st century is fickle. Our roots are anything but.

 

[Sarabande]

Because the music is from a secular compositional form - ie. a musical, which is acted out and dramatized - is what makes it inappropriate for mass - not the words. There are many other pieces of music that appear religious in nature because it is a prayer to God or to the Blessed Mother, but because they were set to something within an opera or ballet or other secular form, it is not appropriate. I love a couple of "Ave Maria"s from different operas, but I would never sing them in mass. I think that is where the difference lie. Godspell, although religious in nature with many, if not all, of the songs was not meant to be just a religious oratorio or sacred music. It was meant to be acted out and dramatized, thus turning it into a performance and a secular piece of art. Nothing wrong with that, but for mass, I don’t believe that is permitted.