Music during Mass

[Operalan]

I have been to Masses where guitars and other “contemporary” instruments were utilized and all was well (in fact, better than that). I am personally more enamored with liturgies that utilize the organ and fine choirs. I have found Masses with either music accompaniment uplifting and also very distracting. It is not, to me, so much the instrumentation as the quality of the effort. Of course, with so little educating going on in the parishes, schools, and beyond with music education (and, in particular, classical music and liturgical music) it is no wonder why the quality is decreasing.

The thing that really bothers me about our “folk group” is that, before Mass, they start “warming up” and “scatting” 5 minutes before Mass, are loud, and not allowing for a spirit of contemplation and reflection to be had.

And people, there is a way to learn to sing and play in tune as well as be heard without amplification.

 

[Phemie]

Our parish has a high-school kid who plays the organ, and very well.

The son of a classmate of mine plays the organ. He came from a family of fiddlers/piano players who all played by ear, but he went away to study and get a degree in organ music. He’s the only formally trained organist I know in a population of ~15,000.

I started to understand our problem with music a few years ago when I attended a regional catechetical conference. The only thing people could come up with to attract young people to the Church was music. I ask you, would you get up to go to Mass on Sunday morning for the music when you had much better on Saturday at the clubs?? If that’s the only thing we can come up with to attract youth, is it any wonder that the average age of our assembly is 45 or more?

I’m of the ‘folk music at Mass’ generation, we had that at school Masses before I graduated in 1971. I’ve grown up since then and appreciate the beauty of traditional hymns and Gregorian chant. Unfortunately our choir and its director are a few years younger and continue to perpetuate the bad music/songs we had at the beginning of the 70s. They seem to have a nostalgic need for Carey Landry and his ilk and impose that on the parish on a regular basis. Since many of the priests we’ve had since also grew up with that music, they have no will to put a stop to it.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

I was taught growing up to be the change you want to see. With that in mind, if you want to hear an organ instead of a guitar, why don’t you learn to play the organ?

 

[aemcpa]

I was taught growing up to be the change you want to see. With that in mind, if you want to hear an organ instead of a guitar, why don’t you learn to play the organ?

Better yet, fund the training of a young musician. If the people who say they want sacred music back in the parishes would put their money where their mouth is, every diocese would have a School of Sacred Music.

 

[SMHW]

Better yet, fund the training of a young musician. If the people who say they want sacred music back in the parishes would put their money where their mouth is, every diocese would have a School of Sacred Music.

Yes.

Unless “the parish” (and understand that this likely means individuals in the parish who contribute directed financial gifts above and beyond their regular contributions) wants to spend several thousand dollars to purchase and/or maintain the organ and sponsor instruction for organists, there is not likely to be a resurgence of organ music.

 

[Phemie]

Yes.

Unless “the parish” (and understand that this likely means individuals in the parish who contribute directed financial gifts above and beyond their regular contributions) wants to spend several thousand dollars to purchase and/or maintain the organ and sponsor instruction for organists, there is not likely to be a resurgence of organ music.

We are too used to accepting mediocre for free to ever go back to spending money on quality.

 

[Operalan]

We are too used to accepting mediocre for free to ever go back to spending money on quality.

BINGO!!!

And as far as “go and become an organist”, gee, I’d like to be a brain surgeon, an astronaut, and a professional basketball player. It’s not in the offing, I can assure you.

 

[SMHW]

Pride of Place, my friends. Pride of Place.

I am not sure why you say this.

Is this a plea for Catholics to aid organ, chant, sacred polyphony, etc in resuming their proper place?

Or is this an acknowledgement that those types of music have pride of place but do not require the exclusion of other forms of singing and instrumentation?

 

[JM3]

I am not sure why you say this.

Is this a plea for Catholics to aid organ, chant, sacred polyphony, etc in resuming their proper place?

Or is this an acknowledgement that those types of music have pride of place but do not require the exclusion of other forms of singing and instrumentation?

I thought it just meant that she had a front row seat. :juggle:

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

The lack of organists is only a small reason. In the 1970’s, parishes began hosting “folk Masses” in an attempt to relate with youth, when that was a popular style of music in the secular world. Of course, not all youth listened to music of that style, but people in the pews began to lose a sense of what set sacred music apart from secular. This had happened before in history, but never in such an undignified manner. At first, their music was primarily the playing of traditional hymns on guitars and other instruments, but fairly quickly, certain hymnals began printing folk-style music with watered-down or nebulous theology in addition to traditional hymns. In time, some of the 70’s hymnals went out of print and still others were eventually bought out by Oregon Catholic Press. One of the most famous of these hymnals was Glory & Praise, which was acquired by OCP in the 1990’s.

OCP, which did away with their “organ accompaniment” book in favor of a “keyboard accompaniment,” rearranged many of the accompaniments for pianists. Over the years, they also revised the texts of those hymns, particularly with regard to inclusive language, to the point where some of their hymns repeat the Name of God multiple times in the same verse to avoid the masculine pronoun “Him.” While many of their “moldy oldies” from the 70’s are still in the books, much of the newer music - based squarely on secular musical styles - sounds out of place and awkward on an organ.

OCP, which commands a huge market share in American parishes with their many products (i.e. Music Issue, Breaking Bread, Flor y Canto, Journeysongs, etc.), has been guiding their subscribers away from organ and traditional hymns into “contemporary” (meaning mostly 80’s music) styles based on guitar and piano. OCP has steadfastly ignored every Vatican document on sacred music since Vatican II, which stated that Gregorian chant should hold pride of place in the sacred liturgy, and that the primary musical instrument of the Church was the pipe organ.

 

[SMHW]

I have noticed an influx of musical instruments like guitars and drums during songs at Mass. This seems to be a bit too much Protestant influence. Since when did we get away from organs? Agree or disagree on Protestant influence.

I will agree with an indirect Protestant influence. But I think the direct influence is secular.

Catholic prayers have been set to folk music for centuries. And Catholics have been singing old spiritual hymns for many years.

What has changed is that Catholics are expecting the Mass to be the place where they hear/play/sing such music.

If there is a protestant influence (and “Protestant” is probably not the best word to use because since I believe any influence is likely from non-denominational Christians who are technically not “Protestant”) I think it is this: the idea that praise and music are central forms of worship rather than that music and singing are important, but not strictly necessary, dressings of worship.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

BINGO!!!

And as far as “go and become an organist”, gee, I’d like to be a brain surgeon, an astronaut, and a professional basketball player. It’s not in the offing, I can assure you.

I’m pretty sure people are complaining just to complain. I can assure you if someone was complaining about brain surgeons being ignorant and have been influenced by others, I would tell them to become a surgeon and fix it. Learning to play an instrument isn’t as serious as working on the human brain. I promise.

 

[holyfamily1]

I would think that “rockband type musical instruments” are fine for Mass, if used properly (and the OF Mass is not a “Protestant type Mass” FYI).

:tsktsk:

 

[holyfamily1]

Our parish has a high-school kid who plays the organ, and very well.

My friend, (who is in high school) plays the organ. It really is amazing the dedication he puts in — he practices for a couple hours a day. He also gives musical lessons for the piano, trumpet, etc.

 

[aemcpa]

I’m pretty sure people are complaining just to complain.

You don’t think the loss of sacred music is a legitimate problem?

 

[holyfamily1]

Better yet, fund the training of a young musician. If the people who say they want sacred music back in the parishes would put their money where their mouth is, every diocese would have a School of Sacred Music.

And… petition the Pastor if building a new parish to have an organ built because many new churches are pretty disappointing when it comes to Sacred Music.

 

[aemcpa]

And… petition the Pastor if building a new parish to have an organ built because many new churches are pretty disappointing when it comes to Sacred Music.

To which he would most likely say, “No problem. Just come up with the money to build it and to maintain it, and to hire someone to play it.”

 

[KendraDZ1902]

You don’t think the loss of sacred music is a legitimate problem?

At my parish we have only sung hymns. I grew up protestant and we haven’t sung a song that I grew up with. So not even protestant hymns. I don’t think I have ever sung kumbaya in a church. Catholic or otherwise. I grew up with no instruments at church and I don’t see anything wrong with a guitar or drums.Those instruments can be used in a classical way. I don’t think it should be like a rock show and I don’t think that people should be dancing or doing the wave. It seems to me that just because an organ isn’t being played that people want to say that there are abuses or that it is all the protestants fault. If an organ is such a big deal to these folks, then they should learn to play it.

 

[aemcpa]

At my parish we have only sung hymns. I grew up protestant and we haven’t sung a song that I grew up with. So not even protestant hymns. I don’t think I have ever sung kumbaya in a church. Catholic or otherwise. I grew up with no instruments at church and I don’t see anything wrong with a guitar or drums.Those instruments can be used in a classical way. I don’t think it should be like a rock show and I don’t think that people should be dancing or doing the wave. It seems to me that just because an organ isn’t being played that people want to say that there are abuses or that it is all the protestants fault. If an organ is such a big deal to these folks, then they should learn to play it.

An adult who has never played a musical instrument probably isn’t going to be able to learn the organ. The brain needs to be hard-wired a certain way, and after a certain age it’s very difficult. Better to financially back the young musicians, and it will also benefit the Church for many more years. For example, I sing, read music and play several instruments, but if I were able to learn the organ it would probably take me at least five years to get to the point where I could be even passable as a mediocre organist. Put a musically inclined child behind the organ and he will be excellent in five years, and he’ll serve the Church for 20 years longer than I will.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

An adult who has never played a musical instrument probably isn’t going to be able to learn the organ. The brain needs to be hard-wired a certain way, and after a certain age it’s very difficult. Better to financially back the young musicians, and it will also benefit the Church for many more years. For example, I sing, read music and play several instruments, but if I were able to learn the organ it would probably take me at least five years to get to the point where I could be even passable as a mediocre organist. Put a musically inclined child behind the organ and he will be excellent in five years, and he’ll serve the Church for 20 years longer than I will.

That’s fine, but calling music directors ignorant and blaming other groups isn’t going to fix anything.