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RyanBlack
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No, it isn’t. However, it’s not realistic to expect that adults who don’t know how to read music will find the time to do so.
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4Squarebaby
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Musical education is the first thing to go by money strapped school districts needed more money to cram for standardized assessment test. As far back as the 1970s it was the luck of the draw if you were assigned to a music class instead of a visual arts class when an arts education was a state requirement.
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aemcpa
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If they’re volunteering for the parish choir, they’ve already committed the time.
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Sarabande
Guest
No, it’s not that simple, even though I am in favor of helping non-musicians with music. I do know that people in choirs who have been singing it for 15, 20, 30 years figure out what the notes mean (like going up, down, how long to hold a note, etc.). They also learn dynamics if they have a good music director who teaches them, but as a professional musician, teaching adults are not as easy as teaching children. It takes a much longer time. That is why many choir directors teach their volunteer, non-musician members by rote and they slowly learn a little bit of music theory, etc. through their time in the choir and what the choir director can teach them in their once-a-week rehearsals. Most people don’t have the time to study and learn on their own other than those choir rehearsals, so it will take much longer to learn.
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Sarabande
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Again, one two-hour weekly rehearsal is not enough time to expect them to learn how to really read music in a short period of time. (Short, meaning between a year to five years.) They are also not receiving one-on-one attention like you would have with a private teacher. The choir director is trying to teach them the music for next week’s mass or for the special Christmas, Holy Week and Easter liturgies. Often times, the two hours during the week and the two hours on Sunday is as much time as most people with family, jobs and a life can offer… and that’s just for learning the compositions. You need many more days and hours to dedicate just to learn the basic theory in order to just be able to read music for the average, typical person.
I do not say these things to try to be negative or discourage, but it is also important to be realistic in order to set the proper goals and plans to help succeed. I was brought up with my Mom’s motto constantly burning into my ear "Never say never. " or “Where there is a will, there is a way.” So, I don’t believe in naysaying and those two mottos have helped me reach almost every single one of my dreams and goals. I have never given up no matter how long it takes. But it is SO IMPORTANT to be realistic and see everything from all ends in order to make the right and appropriate steps to achieve these goals… whether helping people sing chant or polyphony correctly or helping them to read music. There are so many problems right now with how lacking the musical education in our country is today and how mediocrity in our society is pushed more then ever. Those are just two things which need to be overcome.
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Fairwinds
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what are rockband type musical instruments, in your opinion? let’s assume this includes electric guitars and electric basses, does it also include acoustic guitars with pickups? acoustic guitars without? cuatros? ukuleles? pianos?
Frankly, I’ve known more people who understand basic rocket science than I do people who understand basic music theory.
The typical volunteer choir may understand that notes go up and down and have different lengths but in my experience most of them are actually learning by ear and simply memorizing their parts.
If you have a decent choir director the notes the choir sings will be more or less correct. If you have a very good choir director the voices will harmonize, the choir parts will be in time with each other, and there will be some notable dynamics changes. If you have an exceptional choir director the words will be understandable, the piece will evoke the emotions intended by the composer, and the piece will be prayerful even to those who do not usually like that particular style of music.
I think most parishes are lucky if they have a decent choir director and a choir with pleasant sounding voices.
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Sarabande
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aemcpa
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I don’t know what you consider to be the “average, typical person”, but I have seen choirs learn the basics in a year. Half an hour a week at the beginning of rehearsal doing scales does wonders.
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Sarabande
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They actually sight-read notes for a Palestrina score without problem? Doing scales, in what way? Singing? Every choir member learning and playing on the piano scales and learning all the things like playing in minor, major, other basics of theory in counterpoint, etc.? Every choir sings scales at the beginning to warm up their voices, but they don’t use music to do those scales. I’ve been working as a professional musician for years and have been studying music since I was 4. It’s a rare thing to see a non-musician choir be able to do things like that if they didn’t start having training from a young age. A half hour a week is hardly enough to achieve that level.
If you directed those choirs, then I’m truly impressed and perhaps it would be a good thing to give advice to all music directors in how they can achieve being able to teach all of their non-musician choir members how to sight-read music notation within a year with only a half hour of training a week and no private training and self study during the rest of the week. I’ve never seen that happen even with the best music directors. Sure, they can perfect the performance of a piece, but in terms of truly reading the music, that’s a different story.
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aemcpa
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Stop it. You don’t need to do all that to be able to sing quality music, and you know it.
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Sarabande
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There is a difference between singing quality music and being able to read music. That’s what we are talking about. You mention that scales for a half hour a week helped them be able to read music. I want to know how. Singing scales helps them be able to sing better, not necessarily read better.
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Sarabande
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P.S. I’m not trying or meaning to attack you about this as I believe that people can sing quality music without being good musicians, especially if you have good music directors training them. But I’m trying to figure out what you meant by teaching them to read music by doing scales for a half hour a week.
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Elizium23
Guest
The Church has historically been a strong patron of the arts. Look at two millennia of sacred art, architecture and music and ask yourself who paid for all of that, who fostered its appreciation, who subsidized education so that it could be produced.
Let the Church foster an appreciation for sacred music, and create programs to teach organ, chant, and other forms of sacred music appropriate to the liturgy. If the Church truly desires these things to be incoporated into the liturgy then she can put her money where her mouth is.
Right now it is a grass-roots effort. CMAA and Corpus Christi Watershed and Illuminare and the Diocese of Phoenix are lighting the way, so to speak. (Anyone know other dioceses where chant and organ are being fostered?) I believe that if these pilot programs are successful, then other organizations and other dioceses will pick up the torch. It will spread and grow. But we need evangelists, people who will unfailingly communicate what the Church has written on the subject, people who are able to eloquently explain why these types of music are better than others, and most of all people who can perform it well and lead the assembly to join in song.
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Edmundus1581
Guest
That is a realistic assessment! Most parishes would improve considerably if they had a decent choir (by your definition) and decent hymn selection. If that were on offer, I’d take it, rather than holding out for “good”, or “very good”.
Our parish has a “good” choir (by your definitions), of which I am a member, but we only play every second week, and take a couple of breaks during the year. I think the parish would be better served by a “decent” choir which were more reliable.
Having regular and consistent music is also very important. I’d prefer to have decent music regularly, than very good music occassionally.
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Edmundus1581
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That is one important thing I’ve got from this thread. Previously I have just “hoped” that things will improve, and contributed where I can by my involvement in the choir and liturgy committee. I am seeing now that it has to go to a higher lever - for the parish to have a plan for liturgical music and musicians, with a financial investment, and for the parish in turn to be working with the diocese. Otherwise, we only get what we have always got.
I have also come to see how crucial our current organist is to the good music we already have.
A plan I would like to put to our liturgy committee is:
- Recognise we should have an organist play for the main Sunday Mass.
- Accordingly, we should pay for a professional on alternate weeks, and pay the person who currently plays as a volunteer.
- Have a policy on hymn selection, rather than have it subject to the non-accountable, transitory, whims of two people. The thread running in parallel with this one, Men and Liturgical Music, has yielded abundant information and insight into hymn selection.
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TCCOV
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Be careful of what you wish for, you just may get it.
I’d be interested in knowing how such a policy of hymn selection processing would eventuate in success. To me, death by committee seems a more likely outcome.
I admit to not having followed either of these threads closely, but I do know that the “not-accountable” portion of your indictment has its remedy in the pastor’s office. I also know that “transitory” is not the word you likely meant to use, as the nature of the task of choosing worship repertoire is itself transitory. Perhaps “capricious” would suffice as it goes along with “whims.” But again, out of context, prudent language might faire better as the responsibility of choosing service music repertoire is a very serious matter. And if there is ample evidence that these two people do so whimsically, again that can only be remedied in the pastor’s office. The pastoral council could be involved in advising him.
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