Music: "I, myself, am the bread of life"?

[30miller]

I understand that, and I’m not arguing with you on that point.

You just said earlier that you were affirming my point with yours, and I didn’t want to be misquoted. That’s all.

I only posted my clarification because I didn’t want to be identified with your ambiguous stance regarding same.

 

[agapewolf]

30miller, I’m not trying to be argumentative, or asserting any point here. Please don’t take it that way. There is no need to call my point amiguous as you just did, nor was there a reason for you to say that you were “affirming” my point. Mine had nothing to do with yours.

The only intention of my point was to clarify that there are 2 different songs in question…not to argue about the songs. There is nothing ambiguous about it. There are 2 different songs. Done. Clarified. That’s all. There was no way you would have been “identified” with it, and there was nothing ambiguous to be identified with. I didn’t mention your name, nor was I even addressing you.

I don’t want to be misquoted or called on that I said something which I didn’t. …which appears to be happening here.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I Am The Bread of Life, is heretical, only if you take that one line out of context from which it is written, and attempt to apply it to yourself.

Its the typical fault of fundamentalist, to take pieces of Scripture and interpret it literally, out of context from the entire chapter from which it is written.

I see the same sort of thing here, where quoting the single line, “I Myself Am the Bread of Life,” on its own can be heretical. However, if you keep within the context of the song from which it was written, it follows the theology which the Holy Church teaches, that we are the body of Christ.

Jim

 

[Walking_Home]

I Am The Bread of Life, is heretical, only if you take that one line out of context from which it is written, and attempt to apply it to yourself.

Its the typical fault of fundamentalist, to take pieces of Scripture and interpret it literally, out of context from the entire chapter from which it is written.

I see the same sort of thing here, where quoting the single line, “I Myself Am the Bread of Life,” on its own can be heretical. However, if you keep within the context of the song from which it was written, it follows the theology which the Holy Church teaches, that we are the body of Christ.

Jim

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A more accurate answer would be that many have become so acustomed to riding the slippery slope of turning horizontal to where the difference between the creator and the creature is blurred to the pt of not being able identify heresy when it hits them upside the head.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I Am The Bread of Life, is heretical, only if you take that one line out of context from which it is written, and attempt to apply it to yourself.

Its the typical fault of fundamentalist, to take pieces of Scripture and interpret it literally, out of context from the entire chapter from which it is written.

I see the same sort of thing here, where quoting the single line, “I Myself Am the Bread of Life,” on its own can be heretical. However, if you keep within the context of the song from which it was written, it follows the theology which the Holy Church teaches, that we are the body of Christ.

Jim

Jim: I don’t think anyone is arguing that “I Am the Bread of Life” is heretical, because it’s taken out of scripture. I think people are saying that “I Myself Am the Bread of Life” is heretical or at least totally blurs the meaning of the Eucharist. As has been pointed out, they are two different songs. We AREN’T the Bread of Life, only Jesus is. The latter song is representative of a misemphasis on the horizontal, IMHO.

 

[BigFeet]

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A more accurate answer would be that many have become so acustomed to riding the slippery slope of turning horizontal to where the difference between the creator and the creature is blurred to the pt of not being able identify heresy when it hits them upside the head.

How true. Well put, Walking Home.

And since some people keep bringing up the song “I Am the Bread of Life”, and how it directly quotes scripture, let’s remove our blinders here. If we look at John 6:35, it begins with, “Jesus said to them, ‘I am the bread of Life…’” We would never read that line from scripture without including that very key phrase, so why is it okay to sing it without including it? Walking Home has given us the answer to that question as quoted above.

 

[VociMike]

How true. Well put, Walking Home.

And since some people keep bringing up the song “I Am the Bread of Life”, and how it directly quotes scripture, let’s remove our blinders here. If we look at John 6:35, it begins with, “Jesus said to them, ‘I am the bread of Life…’” We would never read that line from scripture without including that very key phrase, so why is it okay to sing it without including it? Walking Home has given us the answer to that question as quoted above.

I agree, singing songs which simply quote the words of God can be problematic. One reason is that, let’s be honest, not every Catholic is well-catechized. How many Catholics actually do know that “I am the bread of life” are the words of Christ? Not every one, I guarantee you! And especially not every child and young person.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

How true. Well put, Walking Home.

And since some people keep bringing up the song “I Am the Bread of Life”, and how it directly quotes scripture, let’s remove our blinders here. If we look at John 6:35, it begins with, “Jesus said to them, ‘I am the bread of Life…’” We would never read that line from scripture without including that very key phrase, so why is it okay to sing it without including it? Walking Home has given us the answer to that question as quoted above.

Rubbish. Songs have been sung out of Scripture from the earliest ages. Anyone who thinks that “I Am the Bread of Life” is claiming that those singing it are the Bread of Life really needs to go take a remedial reading course. Those aren’t blinders. We don’t have to sing "Jesus said, “I am the Bread of Life” for it to be clear that it’s Jesus saying it and that we AREN’T saying we’re either Jesus or the Bread of Life. It doesn’t take an even remotely subtle intelligence to grasp that, I rather imagine my fourth graders could manage it.

Some here have an agenda to throw out all of the music that has developed since the Council. Most of it is dreck, but some of it ISN’T (like, for instance, “I Am the Bread of Life”).

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I agree, singing songs which simply quote the words of God can be problematic. One reason is that, let’s be honest, not every Catholic is well-catechized. How many Catholics actually do know that “I am the bread of life” are the words of Christ? Not every one, I guarantee you! And especially not every child and young person.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I agree, singing songs which simply quote the words of God can be problematic. One reason is that, let’s be honest, not every Catholic is well-catechized. How many Catholics actually do know that “I am the bread of life” are the words of Christ? Not every one, I guarantee you! And especially not every child and young person.

I disagree.

I doubt anyone who hears the words “No one can come to me unless the Father draws him” is going to look around and say,“Come to who? All of them? The bald guy in the suit? The older woman with the really poor taste in color? Which one should I come to?” I rather imagine that you would have to have lived in a box not to know that it was specifically Jesus or at least know that it was a vaguely theistic premise.

 

[Walking_Home]

Rubbish. Songs have been sung out of Scripture from the earliest ages. Anyone who thinks that “I Am the Bread of Life” is claiming that those singing it are the Bread of Life really needs to go take a remedial reading course. Those aren’t blinders. We don’t have to sing "Jesus said, “I am the Bread of Life” for it to be clear that it’s Jesus saying it and that we AREN’T saying we’re either Jesus or the Bread of Life. It doesn’t take an even remotely subtle intelligence to grasp that, I rather imagine my fourth graders could manage it.

Some here have an agenda to throw out all of the music that has developed since the Council. Most of it is dreck, but some of it ISN’T (like, for instance, “I Am the Bread of Life”).

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In a Church where all catechisis would be 100 % orthodox in each and every place — you would have a pt. But unfortunately that is not what is currently happening in the Church today.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

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In a Church where all catechisis would be 100 % orthodox in each and every place — you would have a pt. But unfortunately that is not what is currently happening in the Church today.

I haven’t done a poll in my church, but I doubt anyone there thinks that the song means THEY are the BOL. And the answer to the problem (I’ve acknowledge that “I Myself Am the Bread of Life” at the least borders on heresy if it’s not outright heretical) is better catechesis, not throwing out something that’s perfectly orthodox because we’re afraid someone is going to get confused. Confusion isn’t best remedied by reactionism, it’s best remedied by proper teaching. “I Am the Bread of Life?” Not confusing because it’s quoting what Jesus actually said of Himself and anyone with a third grade education AND/OR who has heard the Gospel knows that’s actually Jesus speaking. “I Myself Am the Bread of Life?” Confusing and in need of explaination and clarification at best, and probably pitching out anyway because it’s theologically poor, worded poorly, and the tune is dreck and impossible for a congregation to sing.

To me, the song “I Am the Bread of Life” is a complete rebuttal of the Protestant view of the Eucharist. It’s a joyful affirmation of precisely what the Church teaches: the Bread of Life IS Jesus and He’s the One Who has descended on that altar.

 

[VociMike]

I disagree.

I doubt anyone who hears the words “No one can come to me unless the Father draws him” is going to look around and say,“Come to who? All of them? The bald guy in the suit? The older woman with the really poor taste in color? Which one should I come to?” I rather imagine that you would have to have lived in a box not to know that it was specifically Jesus or at least know that it was a vaguely theistic premise.

Just to be clear, I’m not suggesting this is a big problem, or even that it is enough of a problem that we shouldn’t sing such songs. But what I am suggesting is that we cannot take anything for granted when it comes to the level of catechesis and scriptural knowledge of the average Catholic today. We can’t assume that “everyone knows” what we know.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Just to be clear, I’m not suggesting this is a big problem, or even that it is enough of a problem that we shouldn’t sing such songs. But what I am suggesting is that we cannot take anything for granted when it comes to the level of catechesis and scriptural knowledge of the average Catholic today. We can’t assume that “everyone knows” what we know.

I give a lot more credit to the average American who bothers to attend Church for just possessing a BASIC intelligence informed by a BASIC education. I don’t think even an atheist would walk into a Mass, hear the words of “I Am the Bread of Life,” then pick up the hymnal and following along reading the words and walk away with the misconception that that congregation was under the impression that THEY were the BoL. For one thing, in “I Am the Bread of Life,” the pronoun “I” is used. In the final verse, it switches to “Yes, Lord, we believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, Who has come into the world.” I don’t think any reasonably intelligent person, possessed of basic literacy skills, is going to make that mistake. AND I don’t think that the liberals and progressives who do believe that we become the Bread of Life (literally) would ever point to “I Am the Bread of Life” as a sterling example of what they’re trying to say. It ain’t their type of song.
“I Myself Am the Bread of Life?” Maybe.

 

[Walking_Home]

I haven’t done a poll in my church, but I doubt anyone there thinks that the song means THEY are the BOL. And the answer to the problem (I’ve acknowledge that “I Myself Am the Bread of Life” at the least borders on heresy if it’s not outright heretical) is better catechesis, not throwing out something that’s perfectly orthodox because we’re afraid someone is going to get confused. Confusion isn’t best remedied by reactionism, it’s best remedied by proper teaching. “I Am the Bread of Life?” Not confusing because it’s quoting what Jesus actually said of Himself and anyone with a third grade education AND/OR who has heard the Gospel knows that’s actually Jesus speaking. “I Myself Am the Bread of Life?” Confusing and in need of explaination and clarification at best, and probably pitching out anyway because it’s theologically poor, worded poorly, and the tune is dreck and impossible for a congregation to sing.

To me, the song “I Am the Bread of Life” is a complete rebuttal of the Protestant view of the Eucharist. It’s a joyful affirmation of precisely what the Church teaches: the Bread of Life IS Jesus and He’s the One Who has descended on that altar.

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Depending on the area—third grade educations can differ. Even within a district–alot depends on each individual school as to the quality of a 3rd grade education.

Now take a parish and/or diocese where catechisis is well – far from being orthodox— add hymns such as these to the mix–and what do we have —abiguity and more than likely heresy re-enforcing each other. While “I Am the Bread of Life” standing alone may not seem to be much of a concern—the problem lies when it is combined with “I Myself am the Bread of Life” and false/heretical catechisis.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

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Depending on the area—third grade educations can differ. Even within a district–alot depends on each individual school as to the quality of a 3rd grade education.

Now take a parish and/or diocese where catechisis is well – far from being orthodox— add hymns such as these to the mix–and what do we have —abiguity and more than likely heresy re-enforcing each other. While “I Am the Bread of Life” standing alone may not seem to be much of a concern—the problem lies when it is combined with “I Myself am the Bread of Life” and false/heretical catechisis.

We can pick anything to death. If “I Myself Am the Bread of Life” is causing a problem, then ditch it. But we can’t acquaint those two songs, as they are two entirely different beasts.

 

[Walking_Home]

We can pick anything to death. If “I Myself Am the Bread of Life” is causing a problem, then ditch it. But we can’t acquaint those two songs, as they are two entirely different beasts.

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Yes they may be – but a horse can still be mated with a donkey–so but those 2 different beasts together–and well it can cause a great big problem.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

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Yes they may be – but a horse can still be mated with a donkey–so but those 2 different beasts together–and well it can cause a great big problem.

You lost me. The songs say two completely different things.

One affirms what Jesus taught about Himself. The other affirms what some misguided people think Jesus taught about Himself.

 

[childofmary1143]

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Depending on the area—third grade educations can differ. Even within a district–alot depends on each individual school as to the quality of a 3rd grade education.

Now take a parish and/or diocese where catechisis is well – far from being orthodox— add hymns such as these to the mix–and what do we have —abiguity and more than likely heresy re-enforcing each other. While “I Am the Bread of Life” standing alone may not seem to be much of a concern—the problem lies when it is combined with “I Myself am the Bread of Life” and false/heretical catechisis.

Not necessarily so. Nobody here questions if Faith of our Fathers is appropriate. Yet in some churches they have modified the words to include “our mothers too”. Should we throw out Faith of our Fathers to get rid of that version too?

 

[nestacal]

I have a question concerning a particluar piece of liturgical music.

At mass today the Communion song was “I, Myself, am the bread of life.”

They first played this about a year and a half ago. My wife said to me, “That isn’t right.” Leaving the church, a friend expressed similar sentiments. Later another person, a convert who had been an Episcopal priest, said he had problems with the song. My wife mentioned her problems with the song to the assistant pastor, who was her spiritual advisor. He said he would look into it.

A few weeks later, they played the same song, so my wife and I approched the cantor and I expressed my problems with the song. She referred me to the music minister, who plays the keyboard. The MM said that they checked out the song with the diocese and that they told her it was OK. I told her that I still thought the song was unsound and that I wish they would not play it again. My argument was that Christ is the bread of life, not us.

Well, I didn’t hear it again until today. I told another one of the musicians that I didn’t like the song and he told me that they had checked it out with the diocese. His explanation was that we are the bread of life because we are part of Christ. I said that I didn’t agree with his conclusion. I told him that music should uplift the congration and that this song put me in the toilet.

Anyway. If anyone knows this song perhaps you could explain it to me. Am I being hard headed or am I correct?

Louie

Dear Louie,

If you truly believe that Our Dear and Most Precious Lord God is in that tiny piece or even morsel of Bread or even in that drop of
Wine, then you would no longer have a reason to doubt for a moment that you are spurred on to bring the Life of Our Precious Lord to each and every human being that you encounter today. By eating the Bread of Life it gives you a firm purpose to allow the preciousness of our true Lord and God to go out to all of the people in this world.

With the Love of Our Most Ever Precious Lord,
Nesta