Music in the Catholic Church

[baltobetsy]

I must admit that I’m not familiar with Episcopal/Anglican music and can only go by what others have told me. I’ve long been given the impression that they do Catholic-style worship better than most Catholics and have a better mix of traditional and contemporary music than most Catholic parishes. So it seems odd to me that some people in this thread have charactized Episcopal music as having drums, guitars, and a charismatic praise & worship bent. Is Episcopal music really so much more contemporary than typical Catholic music and is my impression of it being more traditional incorrect?

In the Episcopal church where I sing, there is the traditional choir (my choir), which does music from Chant to the 21st Century, but it is serious, classical-style music. People who say that whatever has been written since 1965 are quite unaware of the modern composers of good music. We sing the 11:00 service. It’s gorgeous.

Then there is the group called Connection, which is made up largely of aging baby-boomers singing what they hear on Christian radio. They sing occasionally at 9:00.

Then there is Heartbeat, the teenagers, who give a spiritual interpretation to the popular music that they sing at 9:00. They sing the music that they have on their i-Pods.

The Youth Choir and Junior Choir learn classical type music and sing it when they are ready.

And, finally, on Saturday, they have “Faith @ Five,” which is a totally non-traditional service. They put the liturgy and the music on a screen with Powerpoint and have a band.

Now this is the largest parish in the diocese, and has a million dollar budget, but I don’t think it’s the only one to have a variety of musical styles being presented. According to a recent parish survey, however, most people prefer the classical music.

An Episcopal snapshot for you.

Betsy

 

[muledog]

I’m not sure where so many people get this (false) notion that “active participation” precludes attentively listening to a choir.

Such is not the case.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I’m not sure where so many people get this (false) notion that “active participation” precludes attentively listening to a choir.

Such is not the case.

 

[DebChris]

I must admit that I’m not familiar with Episcopal/Anglican music and can only go by what others have told me. I’ve long been given the impression that they do Catholic-style worship better than most Catholics and have a better mix of traditional and contemporary music than most Catholic parishes. So it seems odd to me that some people in this thread have charactized Episcopal music as having drums, guitars, and a charismatic praise & worship bent. Is Episcopal music really so much more contemporary than typical Catholic music and is my impression of it being more traditional incorrect?

What I remember Pre Vatican II is a very limited repertoire of musical choices. I was told not to sing Negro Spirituals or anything that was “Protestant.” I remember Marian songs like “Ave Maria.” Other than that I don’t remember much other than “Holy God We Praise Your Name,” and “Come Holy Ghost,” plus the “Gloria.” Vatican II allowed songs written by our separated brothers and sisters to be included in our worship. I am not talking about the more contemporary or guitar music that only became common after 1970.
I have attended several Episcopal services and do not remember drums or guitars. As mentioned in my earlier post, the Episcopal church near my own church has a very accomplished orchestra and I would agree with your assessment that it is more traditional.

 

[PoliSciProf]

For a good analysis of the Catholic repetoire and the lack of singing in many parishes, take a look at Why Catholics Can’t Sing: The Culture of Catholicism and the Triumph of Bad Taste by Thomas Day. T. Day is chairman of the music dept. at Salve Regina University, RI. It’s a good read.

 

[DebChris]

I’m not sure where so many people get this (false) notion that “active participation” precludes attentively listening to a choir.

Such is not the case.

“48. The Church, therefore, earnestly desires that Christ’s faithful, when present at the mystery of faith, should not be there as strangers or silent spectators.” (Ch. II Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy).
This does not preclude, however, listening to an angelic voice that draws us into worship; ie. a soloist during Communion.

 

[reganq]

“48. The Church, therefore, earnestly desires that Christ’s faithful, when present at the mystery of faith, should not be there as strangers or silent spectators.” (Ch. II Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy).
This does not preclude, however, listening to an angelic voice that draws us into worship; ie. a soloist during Communion.

Since when does sitting silently = spectator?

For many people, silence = prayer.

 

[thechrismyster]

all traditional music was at one time modern music.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Since when does sitting silently = spectator?

For many people, silence = prayer.

There are times for silent prayer, and times for singing and rejoycing.

When the congregation is singing, is not the time for silent prayer, but for participation with your brothers and sisters, in joyful worship and praise of the our Lord and God.

Jim

 

[VociMike]

all traditional music was at one time modern music.

But it wasn’t secular music. The issue has never been “modern music”, it is modern music with strongly secular connotations and associations.

 

[Image_of_God]

But it wasn’t secular music. The issue has never been “modern music”, it is modern music with strongly secular connotations and associations.

I must add to this.

This is an excerpt from David Willoughby’s *The World of Music *4th Edition

His[Palestrina] music is characterized by its purity (detached from secular influences) and its appropriateness for the formal ritual of the Roman Catholic liturgy. IT serves as the model of the best in sixteenth-century imitative counterpoint, capturing the essence of the conservative elements of the Counter-Reformation. Palestrina set out to show through his music that polyphony is not necessarily incompatible with a reverent spirit or with an understanding of the text.
Palestrina’s contrapuntal texture is not overly elaborate; his melodies are diatonic, mostly stepwise and easily singable. A large number of his sacred polyphonic pieces are for four voices, eahc given equal importance.

I am reminded of a good teacher who I could tell was conservative. He told me things that I didn’t understand at the like the classics are more remebered than modern music. I didn’t understand it then, but now I do. I would like you to compare the Ave Maria to Beyonce’s Deja Vu and tell me which one will be remembered longer.

I have never even heard polyphony, but I can tell since many polyphonic songs are remembered so long, they must be good.

 

[VociMike]

I must add to this.

This is an excerpt from David Willoughby’s *The World of Music *4th Edition

His[Palestrina] music is characterized by its purity (detached from secular influences) and its appropriateness for the formal ritual of the Roman Catholic liturgy. IT serves as the model of the best in sixteenth-century imitative counterpoint, capturing the essence of the conservative elements of the Counter-Reformation. Palestrina set out to show through his music that polyphony is not necessarily incompatible with a reverent spirit or with an understanding of the text.
Palestrina’s contrapuntal texture is not overly elaborate; his melodies are diatonic, mostly stepwise and easily singable. A large number of his sacred polyphonic pieces are for four voices, eahc given equal importance.

I am reminded of a good teacher who I could tell was conservative. He told me things that I didn’t understand at the like the classics are more remebered than modern music. I didn’t understand it then, but now I do. I would like you to compare the Ave Maria to Beyonce’s Deja Vu and tell me which one will be remembered longer.

Thanks for that elaboration.

I have never even heard polyphony, but I can tell since many polyphonic songs are remembered so long, they must be good.

You haven’t?! Then it’s about time you started: www.choraltreasure.org

 

[Image_of_God]

Thanks for that elaboration.

You haven’t?! Then it’s about time you started: www.choraltreasure.org

I certainly will.

 

[peary]

Am I alone or is the music in the church just dull? I’m a new Catholic coming to the church from the Episcopal Church who’s music just blows the Roman church away. Any thoughts?

Catholic liturgical music is still stuck in the 70s and 80s. Until the baby boomers are retired and out of the way, it will still be dull and boring LOL
By the way, welcome!

 

[DianaCA]

Hi, I’m one of those baby-boomers. Please don’t lump us all together as in “one size fits all”. I have many fond memories of the Latin Mass. I wasn’t part of the choir, but that didn’t stop me from singing along with the portions that I knew. My father gave me a missal that was Latin on one side and English on the other.
I followed along and responded in Latin. My pronounciation may have been off at times, but I knew what I was saying and so did God.
After Vatican II, I didn’t need my missal. Everything was in English. Songs that once touched me with their beauty, I no longer hear. Over the years there have been other songs that have lifted my heart and mind to God. I still sing, I still respond. I participate because I learned along the way that you only get as much from the Mass as you’re willing to put into it.
My five year old granddaughter comes to Mass with me now. In the past two years, she has learned one response after another. She regularly sings the Alleluia. She attempts to sing the response to the Psalm. This morning I heard her pray, “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed.” Did she understand it? I’m sure she didn’t. Yet I believe that God met her there and she got from the Mass everything she put into it.
What a difference our experience of the Mass would be, if everyone there put as much into it as they want to receive from it!

 

[JDK]

It took me about 20 years to come to terms with the mostly very bad music I experienced as a convert to Catholicism. When I say “bad”, I mean that the melodies so often are just not melodious. The range of notes expected to be warbled by vocally challenged parishioners is just not realistic in many of these hymns.

Now, I am finally at ease with that aspect. I just sing along badly with everyone else and thank goodness we don’t have guitars and drums.

My only complaint now is why can’t we have some SILENCE during communion? Would that be so bad? Honestly, the sound of an organ is annoying to me. I think silence would remind people of the holiness of the Eucharist.

 

[lak611]

There are times for silent prayer, and times for singing and rejoycing.

When the congregation is singing, is not the time for silent prayer, but for participation with your brothers and sisters, in joyful worship and praise of the our Lord and God.

Jim

The problem is that many parishes do not have any silence after the singing. As soon as the singing is done, the priest says the post-communion prayer. Thankfully, in my parish, the priests always sit down for a few minutes and the organist stops playing so we can pray after receiving the Sacrament.

 

[benedictgal]

What I remember Pre Vatican II is a very limited repertoire of musical choices. I was told not to sing Negro Spirituals or anything that was “Protestant.” I remember Marian songs like “Ave Maria.” Other than that I don’t remember much other than “Holy God We Praise Your Name,” and “Come Holy Ghost,” plus the “Gloria.” Vatican II allowed songs written by our separated brothers and sisters to be included in our worship. I am not talking about the more contemporary or guitar music that only became common after 1970.
I have attended several Episcopal services and do not remember drums or guitars. As mentioned in my earlier post, the Episcopal church near my own church has a very accomplished orchestra and I would agree with your assessment that it is more traditional.

I would like to know where in the documents it states that we can use “Protestant” hymns. Francis Cardinal Arinze said that, unfortunately, the Second Vatican Council has been blamed for a lot of things that have gone wrong over the last 40 years, inclusive of the Mass. Just because something was allegedly done in the "spirit of Vatican II’ doesn’t necessarily mean that Vatican II sanctioned it.

Pope Benedict XVI also made it perfectly clear that “one song is not as good as another.” This statement was made in Sacramentum Caritatis, which you can find at:

www.adoremus.org and www.ewtn.com

The Church has strict guidelines when it comes to music in Catholic liturgies. The hymns have to conform with Catholic doctrine and be universal. These hymns should foster a greater sense of reverence and solemnity in our worship.

Even as I write this, the USCCB is supposed to be hammering out a new document. The current Music in Catholic Worship was considered flawed because it does not conform to Liturgicam Authenticam, which, not only calls for adherence to Catholic doctrine and theology (as well as universality), but also for a faithful translation.

Unfortunately, the NPM, through the FLDC, is trying to hijack the document. During the last FLDC, NPM officials asked the Federation to pass a resolution asking the bishops to maintain the status quo, which is clearly against what Rome has requested. The Holy See requested that music be adapted to follow the guidelines of Liturgicam Authenticam. What is so hard about that?

 

[benedictgal]

For a good analysis of the Catholic repetoire and the lack of singing in many parishes, take a look at Why Catholics Can’t Sing: The Culture of Catholicism and the Triumph of Bad Taste by Thomas Day. T. Day is chairman of the music dept. at Salve Regina University, RI. It’s a good read.

That is an excellent book. I checked it out from our library through its Inter-Library Loan program. Another excellent article that will, undoubtedly, cut to the heart of many OCP fans is this one:

crisismagazine.com/january2002/feature2.htm

While there are some who say that the article is balanced, I question that notion because OCP officials are allowed to defend their company.

 

[dandn5000]

the reason of course is that Catholic parishes refuse to pay (for the most part) for professional musicians, something most mainline Protestant congregations take for granted as essential for reverent and beautiful worship.

This be true in the utmost. I wish sometimes that that same fervor for good music would find its way to the mainstream Catholic side of things. I go to my cousins church(shudder…unfun in the utmost), but they sing, and they have a pianist that can play. Sort of makes you notice your alright organist whom sings…not too well.