Music in the new translation of the Mass

[Ohana]

Did I miss something? Since the start of the New Translation at Advent we have been having a different thing at the Sanctus and at the Great Amen. I call it “thing” because it sure isn’t music. Doesn’t sound like Chant either. Dreadful. I hope this is just an advent thing. Any information out there?

 

[grasscutter]

Did I miss something? Since the start of the New Translation at Advent we have been having a different thing at the Sanctus and at the Great Amen. I call it “thing” because it sure isn’t music. Doesn’t sound like Chant either. Dreadful. I hope this is just an advent thing. Any information out there?

I know what you mean. I think it will take a little bit of time.

 

[agapewolf]

Did I miss something? Since the start of the New Translation at Advent we have been having a different thing at the Sanctus and at the Great Amen. I call it “thing” because it sure isn’t music. Doesn’t sound like Chant either. Dreadful. I hope this is just an advent thing. Any information out there?

Well, since the translation changed, the music has to be written to fit the words. All of these come as “sets” in full settings, so the other parts (the “amen”) get changed along with it.

What “information” do you need?

 

[puzzleannie]

I think they made a mistake trying to rework the “old tunes” to fit the new words, and just should have started over with new “tunes” I for one am extremely confused as whatever we are singing or chanting is not any of the versions in the new missalettes.

 

[agapewolf]

I think they made a mistake trying to rework the “old tunes” to fit the new words, and just should have started over with new “tunes” I for one am extremely confused as whatever we are singing or chanting is not any of the versions in the new missalettes.

When evaluating mass settings with the new translation, I knew that the revisions would be a bad idea, at least for awhile. People will be singing the wrong words out of habit.

 

[pilots13]

The new music is kinda goofy, but no more akward than the spoken responses that have changed too. My parish as been using all of their normal Advent music, with the exception of Haugen’s Mass of Creation during the concentration. And the only parts of that which have changed was the Holy, Holy and not using the Christ has died Christ has risen response. The Amen is unchanged.

 

[YoungTradCath]

The new music is kinda goofy, but no more akward than the spoken responses that have changed too. My parish as been using all of their normal Advent music, with the exception of Haugen’s Mass of Creation during the concentration. And the only parts of that which have changed was the Holy, Holy and not using the Christ has died Christ has risen response. The Amen is unchanged.

What is a concentration?

 

[Filii_Dei]

What is a concentration?

I think he means consecration.

 

[Ohana]

Thanks. I thought maybe there was a new “tune” prescribed but it makes sense that maybe the music is just not rewritten. I thought some was as we were given permission to sing a newly rewritten Gloria before Advent (all November) by our Bishop so that we would not be stumbling over it on Christmas. Talked with Hubby about this and he said the “music” for the Sanctus was in the Missalette. I will look this AM when I go to Mass.

I grew up in the day when they used quite a bit of chant in the Mass and never anything that sounded like this. We have two pretty good choirs too, so I don’t think it was just error on their part.

 

[Filii_Dei]

My parish (and entire archdiocese too, I think) has standardised upon using simple chants for the mass ordinaries instead of their previous wide variety of mass settings. In the long term, it will be much easier for those who often attend different masses (and parishes), and it also sounds more solemn and reverent. In the short term though, it only sounds as solemn and reverent as hundreds of confused faithful trying to follow a new tune can sound.

However, from what the other posters seem to say, it seems some parishes are persisting in using revised versions of their old mass settings, so I can’t be sure what exactly the OP is talking about until they upload a recording.

 

[Kerry77]

No one sings at our parish masses because we have an trained opera singer who sings everything so loud and so high that no one even bothers anymore, along with what sounds like a Broadway-trained pianist.

 

[jeanannemarie]

I was disappointed in our new music. We are using something called the Storrington Mass and I think it is by Marty Haugen. Sigh. I don’t even know what all can be chanted, but it does sound simpler and more reverent when I envision that which I can’t envision. This Mass setting sounds like a soundtrack to me. I was sad to have to adopt it for use each Mass until further notice; that is until we know it well, we will not be moving on to the next exciting rendition!

 

[ProVobis]

What we need is a musical brilliance of someone like the late Richard Proulx. Although I seldom attend an English Mass, I really appreciated his settings, realizing that English is a difficult language to write good music for. It’s not as singable as Latin or Italian, for example.

 

[liturgyluver]

What we need is a musical brilliance of someone like the late Richard Proulx. Although I seldom attend an English Mass, I really appreciated his settings, realizing that English is a difficult language to write good music for. It’s not as singable as Latin or Italian, for example.

That’s a bit of a sweeping generalisation! I agree that chant sounds better in Latin, and please Opera always in Italian, but the English choral tradition is renowned the world over. English is perfect for dignfied choral anthems and hymns, as is German.

One of the problems is the only very few Catholic churches draw on this heritage and so we get the two extremes of Latin (perfectly justified) or modern pop type hymns (terrible whatever tongue they are sung in )

And as a cheeky aside in the Eurovision Song Contest 85% of European countries choose to sing in English because they say the songs sound better. I generally, but not always agree!

 

[ProVobis]

That’s a bit of a sweeping generalisation! I agree that chant sounds better in Latin, and please Opera always in Italian, but the English choral tradition is renowned the world over. English is perfect for dignfied choral anthems and hymns, as is German.

Yes, but in chant have you ever tried to sustain a sound or word ending with a “d,” or “t” or “b,” for example? Can’t be done. But then one doesn’t sing words, they sing syllables. Italian words mostly end in vowels so that makes them automatically singable. Latin is a language of endings and most are singable with possible exceptions of the “t” and “nt” but this has been fixed by moving the word. As I said, it will take someone with musical genius to make fixed English syllables work. Handel did that. Most however will never appreciate that.

I do enjoy Bach’s German Cantatas, though.

And as a cheeky aside in the Eurovision Song Contest 85% of European countries choose to sing in English because they say the songs sound better.

Better because English speakers only want to buy English songs and will spend a lot of money on them. Seriously, there is a group ABBA who sang many English songs but couldn’t do English interviews. Wonder why.

 

[liturgyluver]

Yes, but in chant have you ever tried to sustain a sound or word ending with a “d,” or “t” or “b,” for example? Can’t be done. But then one doesn’t sing words, they sing syllables. Italian words mostly end in vowels so that makes them automatically singable. Latin is a language of endings and most are singable with possible exceptions of the “t” and “nt” but this has been fixed by moving the word. As I said, it will take someone with musical genius to make fixed English syllables work. Handel did that. Most however will never appreciate that.

I do enjoy Bach’s German Cantatas, though.

Better because English speakers only want to buy English songs and will spend a lot of money on them. Seriously, there is a group ABBA who sang many English songs but couldn’t do English interviews. Wonder why.

Bach’s cantata’s are just splendid, aren’t they?

What is your source for Abba not speaking English. Their songs were all written by the two guys, and I have seen many interviews with them in English, from the time of their success at Eurovision in 1974 onwards.

But you have accidently reminded me how joyful if can be to be able to sing a song in a different language without actually knowing entirely what you are singing about! It was certainly like that for me when I first learnt to sing the Salve Regina. And before I was fluent in French, Dusty Springfield’s “If you go away” where she retained the two of the original french verses. What a beautiful song.

 

[pilots13]

I think he means consecration.

Yes I did. Stupid spell checker errors…

ProVobis:

What we need is a musical brilliance of someone like the late Richard Proulx. Although I seldom attend an English Mass, I really appreciated his settings, realizing that English is a difficult language to write good music for. It’s not as singable as Latin or Italian, for example.

Richard Proulx (and his whole family) actually grew up in my parish. We invited him back to our parish for our 125th anniversary a couple years back, but he was in too poor a health at the time to be able to come.
In fact the Twin Cities (where I live) has an amazing connection to several liturgical composers. Marty Haugen grew up here, David Haas now lives here and is musical director at an area Catholic High School, and Fr Jan Michael Joncas teaches a couple classes at the University of St Thomas in town (even took one of his 300 level theology classes when I was at UST). In fact I’ve seen the three of them (Haugen, Haas, and Joncas) preform in concert on a couple occasions. Awesome experiences!

 

[ProVobis]

But you have accidently reminded me how joyful if can be to be able to sing a song in a different language without actually knowing entirely what you are singing about! It was certainly like that for me when I first learnt to sing the Salve Regina. And before I was fluent in French, Dusty Springfield’s “If you go away” where she retained the two of the original french verses. What a beautiful song.

What about “Dominique” or “Suki Yaki”? (I think they were released in the same year.) Frankly I think Japanese is a little hard on the ears but we did have a lot of Americans singing it. After a while, I think they actually knew what they were singing.

 

[ProVobis]

What is your source for Abba not speaking English. Their songs were all written by the two guys, and I have seen many interviews with them in English, from the time of their success at Eurovision in 1974 onwards.

I’ll take my comment back. I did find a 75 interview with them done in English, though the interview with the ladies did appear rehearsed.

 

[UnityofTrinity]

why can’t parishes choose how they want to sing or play the music?